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I have a new best friend...his name is Tom

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Smokin Harley

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Last night my wife and I were out at the local tap house to celebrate the birthday of a couple of her lady co-workers. One brought her husband ,Tom, the ladies thought we might hit it off well...well let me tell ya...He is a manger of some sort for a company (processing plant) in Chicago near Midway airport that produces Copenhagen and Skoal and another brand...So, we sat there after our introductions and after discussing motorcycle stories ,the old subject of "what do you do for a living " came up. Lets just say he divulged a few trade "not so secret, secrets" but also attempted to explain their kilning process . Its not much different than what we're all doing except for they kiln it under constant steam with a target temp of 120 with piped in steam for 3 solid years. I am picking this guys brain as much as I can . I plan to get him over here to see my tobacco while it is growing.
 

RyanM22

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Man.. I'd love to find out how they go about making their dip
 

SmokesAhoy

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Yeah, would be wonderful to get the process. The ingredients are already available via tobacco truth, but 120 for 3 years, I guess at that point your buying time. I'm sure if they could have reduced that time by tweaking the process they would have though.
I'd sure love a dummies guide to cope making though...
 

SmokesAhoy

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Pick his brain as much as you can, who knows, maybe our collective hive mind here can fill in any gaps.
 

Chicken

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Copenhagen has been around since the 1800's. Im sure they didnt make it like that back then..

The thing with snuff trully is experimentation..
 

RyanM22

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For me, the toughest part of recreating good dip is the cut
 

Jitterbugdude

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For me, the toughest part of recreating good dip is the cut

Ryan... What is it about the cut? I've never bought any commercial dip but I shred my homemade dip at .8mm and it's perfect. Is commercial thinner or wider?

SH.. definitely pick this guy's brain. I'm not too sure what to make of him right now. He's either really knowledgeable or just another bull shit artist. Ask him why they steam for 3 years. What are the chemical changes they are looking for that can't be done by a few days at a higher heat. Do they control for TSNA's? if so how?
 

Smokin Harley

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You mean, they kiln the tobacco under 120F steam (basically a warm mist) ie. 100% humidity for 3 years?
yep, thats what he said...and , this is umm kinda secret stuff but he said they found out they can do the same process at 40 degrees F,no added humidity. He said the "cold" process results in a lot longer shelf life...with the 120/3 yrs a can sits on a shelf 4 weeks before they toss it, with the 40 degree and "ambient humidity" it can shelf store for a year. I know they are stored in Hogshead oak barrels during the process. I haven't asked how but I think it sounds like something similar to a Perique process. a couples dinner may be in the near future ...I'll see what I can find out.
 

Smokin Harley

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Ryan... What is it about the cut? I've never bought any commercial dip but I shred my homemade dip at .8mm and it's perfect. Is commercial thinner or wider?

SH.. definitely pick this guy's brain. I'm not too sure what to make of him right now. He's either really knowledgeable or just another bull shit artist. Ask him why they steam for 3 years. What are the chemical changes they are looking for that can't be done by a few days at a higher heat. Do they control for TSNA's? if so how?
I am , there was a band playing pretty loud during our conversation so some of it I didn't hear . He did say that their company basically helped the law makers make the rules/regs. and with the new regulations coming out they are going to have to put a huge picture of a baby on the face of it or a big cancer scare picture on it (I saw these in use in Mexico) , which in their demographic studies has shown to actually boost sales. Their stocks over 42 years have had an 8-10% quarterly profit consistently even during recession.
 

deluxestogie

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...they can do the same process at 40 degrees F,no added humidity. He said the "cold" process results in a lot longer shelf life...with the 120/3 yrs a can sits on a shelf 4 weeks before they toss it, with the 40 degree and "ambient humidity" it can shelf store for a year.

40ºF would do nothing. 40ºC = 104ºF, which will allow oxidation, but won't prevent vegetative mold growth.

A one month shelf life would require direct air shipment to consumers, to be of any value.

Maybe your new friend had too much to drink.

Bob
 

Smokin Harley

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like I said ,I'll have to talk with him more about it sometime. This guy has been at this job quite a few years and pulls down a nice salary enough to afford having a huge house built in a swanky neighborhood . He and his wife had just got there and I doubt he is a functioning alcoholic . I'm not about to call him a liar ,bullshitter or say it was the cocktail talking. He mentioned packing tobacco into used oak barrels/hogsheads as tightly as possible ,piping in steam to 120*F for 3 years solid and then he dropped the 40*F with pressure thing on me. I just met the man.
 

SmokesAhoy

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Even a bullshitter highly placed in the industry might drop a gem of info once in a while, and the worst thing is you have a nice night out with a few drinks. Keep up the covert action and keep reporting back:)
 

RyanM22

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Ryan... What is it about the cut? I've never bought any commercial dip but I shred my homemade dip at .8mm and it's perfect. Is commercial thinner or wider?

I do the same as you, but run it through twice. I use the hand-crank shredder which seems to be the same one sold by WLT - the cheaper one. For me, the strands are too long with one run-through. With two, the shred is ok, but it's more of a small chunk instead of a fine strand. I can still dip it fine, but I have to add a little more water/glycerin than I'd like to get it to stick together.

Commercial, even long cut, is pretty thin and not as long a strand as one run-through of the hand crank. I feel like the only way to get really thin strands would be from a machine that's made just for that purpose.

Harley, get him to spill the beans on their shredders : )
 

Smokin Harley

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Sorry guys. I had about 10 hours of opportunity yesterday and missed it...my wife and I , he and his wife and another couple went to see Chris Cornell at the Ravinia . Had a great time but maybe it was the bottle of Jack Daniels that kept us off of tobacco conversations, there will be other opportunities when I can maybe put him under a bright interrogation light ...maybe just over a cigar or two.
 
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