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Amersfoort

Tutu

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This thread is dedicated to a cigar variety from the Netherlands, around the area of Rhenen, Elst and Amerongen. I first came into contact with this variety upon visiting the Tabaksteeltmuseum in Amerongen. I grew up in the region and often passed the old curing barns that are no longer in use for the curing of tobacco. Much information can be found on the website of the museum, although in Dutch. Even more information can be obtained by going to the museum itself. It has a wonderful collection of items and they are still growing, curing and fermenting some tobacco for exhibit purposes. Exploring the area by bike is also highly recommended. But I suppose not many of you regularly visit the Netherlands, nor do you speak Dutch. Therefore a little summary of its history, translated from their website:

"Around 1615 the first tobacco was grown in the area of Amersfoort. From there onward it was expanded to Nijkerk, Barneveld, Ede, Wageningen, and further on to the Utrechtse Heuvelrug. The Netherlands soon took a special place as a producer of tobacco. Our country was the first to use hotbeds to germinate young seedlings. Around 1635 this method spread to other places in Europe and was known as the "Dutch method". Between 1700 and 1800 the domestic tobacco became an important product of trade. In 1900 the growing of tobacco around Amersfoort had almost disappeared. Only in the Betuwe, especially between Amerongen and Rhenen there remained some tobacco fields."

In the early 20th century international trade grew and the tobacco from the Netherlands was no longer market competitive. At first the Dutch tobacco was still being used as wrapper / binder with filler imported from the United States, but it disappeared as the Dutch climate is less favourable for growing tobacco than many other regions of the world. Growing tobacco returned during the second World War, not just for consumption but also as a means of trade. Only to vanish again soon after.

As I had mentioned earlier in another thread, the Tabaksteeltmuseum in Amerongen distributes seeds in ziplock bags. As they have kept the variety alive after all those years, I feel it deserves to be called "Amerongen". My first visit to the museum was on June 9th 2015. Early April 2016 I contemplated a plan, growing seedlings during the few weeks I was in the Netherlands and spreading them among friends and family. So I did. None of them had any prior experience with growing tobacco, nor do I. I thought it would be a nice experiment to see how these plants would grow under different circumstances. The results vary, and I will show exactly how. Myself, I have a few seedlings of this variety in Indonesia and will post updates on their growth. First, some pictures of what has happened in the last few months.

Friesland 05.jpg Ùtrecht 00.jpg
Seeds were sowed on two different locations, in Akkrum (Friesland) and in Utrecht (Utrecht). Those in Friesland where the ones spread among a lot of different people and those in Utrecht were continued in the same place by one particular friend who has kept regular updates so the focus here will be on his plants. The main focus will be on Utrecht, and a few others will be shown.

Bennekom 05.jpg Utrecht 07.jpg
On the first picture we witness the seedlings that I distributed. They were taken from the pink tray shown in the previous image. We will later see a few examples of how they turned out. On the second picture I said farewell to the plants in Utrecht, which were then turned into larger containers. The plants in Utrecht where always kept in containers as there was no place close to the ground receiving sunlight.

Utrecht 09.jpg Eric 08 07-06-2016.jpg
The Amerongen tobacco showed steady growth in Utrecht after I left for Indonesia. They were moved up on the balcony because there was slightly more sun exposure and space to add a few more plants. Although all plants germinated on the same day, two are considerably larger because they were kept in in the bathroom at the top floor of the house which served as a greenhouse due to the frosted glass roof windows. The others had been kept inside the house without exposure to direct sun.

Floris 01 11-06-2016.jpg Floris 02 02-07-2016.jpg Floris 03 02-07-2016.jpg
These are pictures from a friend who received transplants that were germinated in Friesland. They are being grown in Bennekom (Gelderland) and the last two pictures are the most recent update of the plants. As you can see, they were transplanted into normal soil, rather than being kept in containers. Hopefully I will be able to post updates of them in the future.
 

Tutu

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Re: Amerongen

A new post to be able to post the next series of pictures since there is a maximum of images you can insert in a post. So there we go again!

Jenze 01 29-06-2016.jpg Jenze 03 29-06-2016.jpg
Contributing to the experiment, the plants in Friesland were grown under different circumstances as to see what happens to the Amerongen plants. On the first image you see two plants out of five that were transplanted into an unweeded field. They were left alone to fight the wild, two survived. A few others were planted in the back end of a greenhouse. There is not a lot of sun in that spot.


Said 01 11-07-2016.jpg Said 03 02 20-07-2016.jpg Said 04 02 20-07-2016.jpg

Three images of two plants that were planted in pots in the town of Randwijk (Gelderland). Again, the last two pictures are most recent. I am not sure if it is due to the amount of rain, but the leafs look rather light/bright They have grown to nice mature size plants, considering they grow in containers rather than full soil. All these plants were given some pokon when still young, and have not received any other fertilizer. Those in Utrecht have had some additional pokon, but the other examples from Bennekom and Gelderland have not. The plants in Friesland didn't get any fertilizer.

Eric 12 28-06-2016.jpg Eric 13 28-06-2016.jpg Eric 14 28-06-2016.jpg
Back to Utrecht where a grow spurt has taken place. You can see a close-up from the two largest specimen. From what I've heard, there has been a lot of rain and not too much sun, which was to be expected. Dutch summers hardly ever show tropical signs. Nevertheless, the plants seem to do a fairly good job growing in their containers.


Eric 15 29-06-2016.jpg

Closing off, a nice image of the balcony table in Utrecht, which will be the first place where any leafs will be primed. Depending on friends, I hope to be able to show some cured leafs after a few weeks! I hope to hear what they taste like as well!
 

deluxestogie

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Re: Amerongen

Interesting thread and experimentation. If you'll excuse my intrusion, I'll add several tidbits for geographically impaired Americans.

MAP_Netherlands_Amerongen.jpg

Amerongen location in the Netherlands.

MAP_Netherlands.jpg

A wider view.

Amerongen appears to be only about a 30 minute drive from Gouda.

"Pokon" was new to me. For those familiar with "N:p:K" fertilizer, the name of the brand "Pokon" comes from a similar abbreviation based on "P:K:N", that is P[sub]2[/sub]O[sub]5[/sub] - K[sub]2[/sub]ON[sub]2[/sub].

http://www.pokon.com/aboutpokon/

I found no actual analysis on the site, and apparently they offer a number of different blends for various applications.

I look forward to following the grow and curing.

Bob
 

Tutu

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Re: Amerongen

Thank you Bob for the assistance, those are some quality maps!
Indeed, there are different kinds of Pokon.
It is actually produced in Veenendaal, not far away from Amerongen, by Pokon Naturado BV.
I asked a friend (the one from the Utrecht plants) to send some to Indonesia.
DSC_0050.jpg
Here I am with three different versions of it.
Those are for "green plants", "vegetable & herbs" and "flowering plants".
For those Amerongen plants in Utrecht, different plants got different Pokon.
I am using the "green plants" one for my tobacco (both Amerongen, Timor-Leste and Besuki).
Upon inspecting the back side I found it is NPK 12-6-9 + 3 MgO + 0,5 Fe.

I will post an update of how the leafs of friends were harvested and cured here.
I might continue to post the growth of my own plants here as well.
 

deluxestogie

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Re: Amerongen

Very interesting thread. Keep us posted! I find amazing the way the history of Amerongen and Nostrano are similar.
Pier
I believe it is the common story of the loss of diversity in food species as well as tobacco species. When agricultural production of a category of product (food or tobacco) becomes dependent on international markets, then land race varieties and local specialties tend to be abandoned in favor of commodity varieties. Wars break the strangle hold. Subsequent peace continues the loss of agricultural diversity.

Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN said:
100 YEARS OF AGRICULTURAL CHANGE: SOME TRENDS AND FIGURES RELATED TO AGROBIODIVERSITY

* Since the 1900s, some 75 percent of plant genetic diversity has been lost as farmers worldwide have left their multiple local varieties and landraces for genetically uniform, high-yielding varieties.

* 30 percent of livestock breeds are at risk of extinction; six breeds are lost each month.

* Today, 75 percent of the world’s food is generated from only 12 plants and five animal species.

* Of the 4 percent of the 250 000 to 300 000 known edible plant species, only 150 to 200 are used by humans. Only three - rice, maize and wheat - contribute nearly 60 percent of calories and proteins obtained by humans from plants.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/y5609e/y5609e02.htm

Bob
 

Alpine

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Re: Amerongen

Not all is lost, Bob... Nostrano is now grown near Blacksburg VA, Mead WA and Leopolis, Ukraine. With a bit of luck, Amerongen will follow. I noticed a growing (pun intended) interest in local strains and landraces in the last ten years or so, and not only for tobacco, but for peppers, corn (we have two strains here near Trento) and many more products. The more the consumers know, the more they search for such products. After all, it's a matter of knowledge.
Pier
 

webmost

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Re: Amerongen

I believe it is the common story of the loss of diversity in food species as well as tobacco species. When agricultural production of a category of product (food or tobacco) becomes dependent on international markets, then land race varieties and local specialties tend to be abandoned in favor of commodity varieties. Wars break the strangle hold. Subsequent peace continues the loss of agricultural diversity.

Bob

Talkin bout WAR
hoo
yeah
What is it good for
genetic diversity
 

Tutu

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Re: Amerongen

Just finished reading the thread on Nostrano del Brenta. Indeed, the story is similar.

There's no way to stop the market move to the more favourable varieties to international trade. All we can do as a group is to identify lost varieties and continue to grow them on a small scale. And to share the seeds among each other to keep this thing going as long as we can. I've only joined very recently here, but I love the spirit.

More on topic of Amerongen. There has been a first priming of the leafs in Utrecht. That last picture I posted of the balcony table was taken on June 29th. Let me continue the tale and post some pictures of what the leafs looked like prior to harvesting.

Eric 23 16-07-2016.jpg Eric 30 17-07-2016.jpg Eric 34 17-07-2016.jpg
These are pictures that were taken on the 16th and 17th of July. Not all leafs are in the same stage of maturity but there are a few other circumstances to be considered. Those are my friends limited time as well as time overlap for us to communicate. Also, the plant's weight taking its toll on the containers. I don't want the plants to fall over and snap, as seed propagation is very high on the list of priorities. I was told at the museum that the farmers back in the old days around Amerongen used to grow thick bushes of bean stalks around their fields to protect them from wind. I was also told that the this Eastern side of the Utrecht province was the most attractive place to grow plants in the Netherlands in terms of wind conditions. Not sure if that is myth, though I do know there is a lot more wind in cities North and West, closer to the sea.

Eric 37 17-07-2016.jpg Eric 42 17-07-2016.jpg Eric 43 17-07-2016.jpg
So I told him to go about and do the first priming. The remainder of the leafs will be left on to grow much larger than they are now, hopefully, and get a priming later on. The total leaf count is not very high. That might be the variety, or the growing conditions (containers), I wouldn't know (yet). The last plant shown in this series of three exhibits very pale white leafs. I am wondering about the reason, as it has been in the same place for most of the time (except for not having been in that bathroom-greenhouse).

Eric 50 17-07-2016.jpg Eric 55 17-07-2016.jpg
Here some pictures of the harvested leafs. He has failed to mention the total leaf count. After harvesting the leafs where brought to Wageningen to be cured in a garage. The leafs were positioned in rows of three, as you can see in the image.

Eric 54 17-07-2016.jpg Eric 57 19-07-2016.jpg
The two images shown here are two days apart. The first was taken on the day of priming, the last picture was taken two days ago. I will post updates of the curing, and I hope there are other places where these leafs will be harvested. I can't be too sure about that though, most of it is beyond my control.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me what the best ratio for NPK is, as they are different for the three types of Pokon. For now, I was just going to go for the name. "Green plants" seemed the most suitable name. I am quite sure that it would be better to make a decission based on content. The three options are these:

NPK 12-6-9 (green plants)
NPK 8-5-10 (flowering plants)
NPK 6-4-8 (vegetable & herbs)

It should be noted though, that "green plants" also contains 3 MgO and 0,5 Fe, "flowering plants" has 2 Fe, "vegetable & herbs" has 2 MgO. I suppose these numbers are in ratio with the NPK content. Besides that I should mention that the "vegetable & herbs" looks by far the most natural. It has a brown colour, rather than white, smells more like dung, and in its content lists a whole lot of organic substances such as bonemeal, feathermeal, vegetable residue, vinasse and kieserite.
 

Alpine

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Re: Amerongen

Most experts here on the forum use a NPK fertilizer with a ratio 6-6-18. I found (but not be able to obtain because of the huge amount i should buy) two different fertilizers: for bright leaf ratio is 10-4-16 while for burley is 17-4-25
hope this helps
Pier
 

Tutu

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Re: Amerongen

And there I was being happy with my NPK fertilizer whereas it seems quite a bit off from the ideal ratio. But I'm still quite happy because all else that is available is simple Urea and I'd rather stick with the Pokon. Hopefully the plants will not need much else. I'm afraid I will be moving at the end of September to a different place in Jember so I'll have to keep my growth in pots for this season. But let me first make an update for a couple of Amerongen plants.

Tjipke 01 30-06-2016.jpg Tjipke 02 22-07-2016.jpg
First let me show another example of how the Amerongen tabacco has been doing. This is at my grandfather's, who I've given three plants and who wins in terms of growing as closely as possible to the town of Amerongen. He lives in Overlangbroek (Utrecht), which is in-between Wijk bij Duurstede and Leersum, and Leersum in turn is next to Amerongen. So there you have it! Amerongen tobacco grown close to Amerongen. The issue with these plants is that they were placed in a hall with frosted windows for a very long time, not receiving much sunlight. The temperature in this place is always quite high though. As of today he has placed them in larger pots and will put them somewhere else. I do not know where, but we'll see about that soon enough. When I gave him his first plant I recall watering it with a water spray which I thought was filled with water but turned out to have some sort of detergent for window cleaning. As it may be, I can not identify the plant that underwent this drenching.

Wieneke 01 09-07-2016.jpg Wieneke 02 21-07-2016.jpg
These are images in Bennekom (Gelderland), at my parents. My mum is taking care of these plants. On the first you can see that they don't seem to be doing too well. These, as well as those in Overlangbroek were all from the original germination in Akkrum (Friesland). My parents were on holiday for about two weeks so they haven't been caressed much. They recovered quite well, and currently there is a heatwave in the Netherlands (so I'm told). We will see how they will do. Mu mum was actually trying to show me she potted a mango seed but it gives us a nice update on her plants.

Eric 63 22-07-2016.jpg Eric 62 22-07-2016.jpg
This whole thread is starting to look more and more like a grow blog and I haven't even started with showing the progress of my own Amerongen plants in Indonesia. To round things off I hereby post the current status of the leafs drying in Wageningen (Gelderland). Remember, these are the leafs that were harvested in Utrecht (Utrecht). Even though they are only half an hour apart by car, I doubt whether many will take their leafs to a different province to cure.

What should I do? Mix my own growth pictures in with this thread? Move them to my other grow blog of Timor-Leste? Or start a new grow blog altogether dedicated to the Amrongen tobacco. I somewhat feel they belong here in this thread called Amerongen.
 

Isabel

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Re: Amerongen

Hi guys, I am afraid I have some good news and some bad news, I'll start with the bad news.
The name 'Amerongen' is probably incorrect. I was reading a book; The Cultivators Handbook of Natural Tobacco written by Bill Drake wherein I stumbled upon the following text "Nicotiana macrophylla pandurata - broad leaved, or Amersfort, much, cultivated in Germany and Holland, a heavy cropper, and especially adapted for the manufacture of good snuff."


Amersfoort is a place in the Netherlands not too far from Amerongen within the same province (Utrecht). The text within this book made me curious and I further searched for 'Amersfoort tobacco'. I came across a Dutch website with information about the Dutch tobacco history 'tabakshistorie'.


In the first post of the Amerongen thread, AEdeVries summarized information from the Tabaksteelt museum in which it is stated that Amersfoort is the first place for tobacco to be grown in the Netherlands around 1615. However, on the tabakshistorie website it is stated that in 1610 the first signs of tobacco production were in a small trade village called 'Veere' in the province Zeeland. It was later on shifted to Amersfoort and surrounding areas as the sandy soil over there was found to be more fertile for tobacco production.



The bad news therefore is that the name 'Amerongen' is wrong, and that perhaps the name should be 'Amersfoort', with double "oo". Fun fact, AEdeVries was actually born in Amersfoort! As if it was meant to be!

Furthermore, on the history website it is told that the end of tobacco production in the Netherlands was partly due to the fact that it was less suitable for wrapper and pipe tobacco in comparison to production of these internationally, as was also metioned by AEdeVries. It was, however, perfect for the production of snuss. Aha!


I was memorizing the things I saw in the Tabaksteelt museum in Amerongen which for a greater part actually had a lot to do with snuss (snuiftabak) and chewing tobacco (pruim tabak); small tobacco boxes/cans to keep the snuss, pictures of people sniffing it, material to grater tobacco etc.


We were already wondering what the cured Amerongen leaves, or I should now say Amersfoort, were best used for. As the green colour of the plants is quite light and so are the leaves which are currently being cured. The good news is thus that we have more insight in what type of tobacco this could be and for what purposes it could be used (cigar, snuss, chewing, cigarettes).


As you know, all of the Amersfoort plants shown in this thread so far are in the Netherlands at friends and family. We don't have direct control over the way and conditions in which it grows, is primed, cured, and further processed. Since we ourselves live in Indonesia we cannot take a closer look than photos that have been send to us.


However, we are now growing Amersfoort tobacco in Indonesia, together with Besuki, Timor-Leste and júst have received some Kasturi plants from a local farmer. We can thus control the whole process and compare all types, and keep you all posted!
 

Tutu

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Re: Amerongen

I agree to the fullest. As of tomorrow I am also going to change the nametags on the tobacco from Amerongen to Amersfoort. Whereas for the Timor and Timor-Leste seeds I was very careful with attaching names, I seemed to have taken this one over my head. Amersfoort it is! Thread name should be adjusted accordingly...
 

Isabel

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Re: Amerongen

Nice research.


Looks like this old botanical name (Nicotiana macrophylla) was used for what is generally known as Maryland tobacco.

Bob

This is indeed true and this information was in exactly the same paragraph of the book where I found the information about the Amersfoort tobacco being adapted for the manufacture of good snuff.
Maryland tobacco (Nicotiana Macrophylla) is divided into two sub-species and their varieties which are;

1) Stalkless Maryland
- N. Macrophylla Ovata - short-leaved: producing a good smoking tobacco
- N. Macrophylla Longifolia - long-leaved: yielding a good smoking tobacco and excellent for wrappers for cigars
- N. Macrophylla Pandurata - broad-leaved or Amersfort: a heavy cropper and especially adapted for the manufacture of good snuff

2) Stalked Maryland
- N. Macrophylla Alata
- N. Macrophylla Cordata - heart-shaped: producing a very fine leaf.

In the German book 'Amersfort' is mentioned a few times as well.
 

Tutu

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Back again!

In this thread I will continue to post pictures of various people growing the Amersfoort tobacco. As for growing it ourselves, Itsanne will start a grow log on that. I'll let her hijack this tobacco since she has done some valuable research in determining its source as well as it's true varietal name. Myself I will focus on my Timor-Leste grow log, adding some Besuki, Kasturi and maybe some other Indonesian influences.

Arno 01 12-07-2016.jpg Gerrie 02 26-07-2016.jpg
First two pictures of friends of my mom who are happy first time growers. They are not too concerned about gathering the leafs (neither is my mom), but they are enthousiastic about seeing Nicotiana tabacum grow as a plant. As you can obviously tell, the pictures are of very different stages of growing. The early one was taken on the 12th of July and the plant that has started flowering was taken on July 26th. The young plants are in containers and the flowering plants have been grown in full sun soil.

Wieneke 04 28-07-2016.jpg Wieneke 05 28-07-2016.jpg Wieneke 06 28-07-2016.jpg Wieneke 07 28-07-2016.jpg
Then my moms plants, which we had last seen growing behind a potted mango seed. She sent me some quality pictures on July 28th and they are shown above to share with you. As you may tell from the previous pictures they had quite a rough start. Once my mom saw the plant at her friend flower she became jealous and decided she indeed, as I had told her numerous times, had to plant it in soil and sun. The plants got a bit confused and started flowering early. She is letting no one near them so I'm afraid none of the leafs will be harvested.

Eric 67 02-08-2016.jpg Eric 69 02-08-2016.jpg Eric 66 27-07-2016.jpg
A few pictures from the Amersfoort tobacco currently drying in Wageningen, as well as a picture of the flower buds that have developed of the remainder of the plants in Utrecht. We will keep track of these plants to see how they semi-dark air cure and how the remaining leafs grow.
 

Tutu

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This post will focus on the plants that were planted by my mum.
It took a bit of convincing but she has agreed to try and cure her leaves.

Wieneke 11 14-08-2016.jpg Wieneke 12 21-08-2016.jpg Wieneke 10 21-08-2016.jpg
First the two plants she has placed in the garden. You see the two individual plants on the first two shots and their general location in the garden on the third.

Wieneke 15 23-08-2016.jpg Wieneke 19 24-08-2016.jpg Wieneke 20 27-08-2016.jpg
She picked some of the leaves and hung them in the garage. The second picture is one day after the first, and the second and third picture are three days apart. My folks will be on holiday the coming two weeks, so there won't be any update pictures as to how the leafs are curing. Neither can she intervene if anything goes wrong. She found a single budworm-like caterpillar and killed it. We'll see how things are after two weeks.

Wieneke 18 23-08-2016.jpg Wieneke 17 23-08-2016.jpg
Two pictures from the plants that remain in the garden. We'll see if there's any increase in leaf size of the top leafs. My mum says she likes these plants a lot, thus I've sent her a package with some Besuki, Timor-Leste (Liquiçá) and Corojo seeds.
 
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