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Flavourfull and aromatic tobacco for pipe smoking

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Charly

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I think all is already in the title :D

I am a pipe smoker (and sometimes a cigar smoker too), this year, I've grown my first tobaccos (cherry red 401, semois and rustica) thanks to Gavroche who sent me some seeds.

Next year, I would like to grow flavorfull and aromatic tobaccos to put in my pipes (and maybe to roll cigars once in a while).
I am not searching for nicotine.
What strains do you think I should grow ?
I plan on air curing / sun curing (I don't think I will build a kiln soon, neither a flue curing chamber)

Here is a list of some strains I noted while reading some of the excellent threads here :

- "Prilep" (Prilep P66-9/7 ?) (it seems the most fragrant and aromatic of all orientals ?)
- "Izmir Ozbas"
- "Yenidje"
- "Black Sea Samsun" or "Samsun Maden" (what's the difference ?)
- "Basma" or "Baffra Basma" (what's the difference ?)
- "Xanthi"
- "Bursa"
- "Bolivian Criollo Black"
- "Little Dutch" or "Japan 8" (lot of sugar ?)
- "Havana" (142 or 503 ?)
- "Yellow Orinoco" (makes a very good chew and a nice flavorful pipe tobacco.)
- "Perique" (for air curing AND perique processing)
- "Maryland MD 609" (toasted, it seems to mary well with VAs)

By the way, what do you think of "cherry red 401" ? Are there more flavorfull Virginias ?

My garden is not big, so I will have to select only a few strains (less than 10).

Do you have any advice ?
Thank you ;)
 

SmokesAhoy

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imo do one flue cured, without flue curing it'll be good but different from what you are used to.
Do 1 dark air, you can perique some of it too
Don't know enough about Turkish strains I'd just choose the one that group consensus says is best.
Burley. Tn90 is a popular one.

Skip rustica, too many cons and it'll be higher nicotine.
For varieties just choose high yielding modern strains for your first grow, some of the exotic strains don't really produce too much.

For cigars that really opens a can of worms regarding strain selection, just too many. My experiment this year was with vuelta abajo because I want to only grow 1 strain for cigars and general consensus has that as a good puro.
I'd just grow for the pipe the first year if that's your favorite, with just air curing it'll take a while, at least a year before it's good.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I wouldn't grow Yenidje. It produces very little in comparison to other orientals.

My Japan 8 isn't sweet at all, but it is very unique and in small amounts contributes a lot to a blend. I don't know if it really is an oriental. It's more like a dark air to me.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Xanthi, Basma, yenidge are all from northern Greece. You might want to try different ones to see what grows best for you and tastes just right, but I wouldn't expect huge differences from them in regards to what they contribute to a blend. Look through the forum sections on orientals for threads started by Istanbulin. He has a number of threads which help you to understand the different types of orientals. You see, you might want to try one xanthi(Greek) or Prilep(Macedonia, just across the border), one samsun (black sea region of Turkey), or something from Eastern turkey or Iran. Bursa is from Marmara area; I found it interesting how variable it can be depending on how you grow it- wide spacing, greenhouse, close spacing, topped, not topped, etc. You can very much notice a difference in flavour, strength, etc and can hand sort out a number of grades after curing depending on leaf size, texture and colour.

The most flavorfull bright tobacco I've grown is Frog Eye Orinoco. I'm happy with Costello Negro too, but didn't grow as much quantity as others.

MD609 air cured is one of the best I've grown. It somehow remains sweet even though it's air cured. It grew well. It also makes good cavendish.
 

Charly

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imo do one flue cured, without flue curing it'll be good but different from what you are used to.
When you say "do one flue cured", you mean one flue cured variety or one variety gone through flue curing ?
Because I have already grown some "cherry red 401", air cured (I began smoking it to try, it is very acid, but it has already some interesting flavors and aromas)

Do 1 dark air, you can perique some of it too
"Bolivian Criollo Black" is a dark air I think, or I might be wrong.
I begun to make perique with some of my cherry red two weeks ago ! :D Thanks to all the informations gathered here :)

Don't know enough about Turkish strains I'd just choose the one that group consensus says is best.
I would like to have different tastes and flavors so I can play with blending :)
I am not a "one blend" kind of guy :D, I love many different commercial blends (mainly from GLPease and McClelland), but due to crazy laws it is harder and harder to get any to France... :(

Burley. Tn90 is a popular one.
Is it tasty ? The few burley blends I tryed in the past seemed to me to be very low on taste and aroma...

Skip rustica, too many cons and it'll be higher nicotine.
Rustica (in my case "Mapacho") is really interesting (even if I don't really like the main flavor) because when grown on different locations, it gives different leaves and taste.
When grown in full sun, it is really fragrant (I should say it stinks ! really !) while grown with less sun it smells less and give wider and sweeter leaves.
But, as I don't really care for its taste, I don't plan on growing it again.

For cigars that really opens a can of worms regarding strain selection, just too many. My experiment this year was with vuelta abajo because I want to only grow 1 strain for cigars and general consensus has that as a good puro.
I take note : vuelta abajo :)
How does it compare to "Havana 142" or "Havana 503" ?

I'd just grow for the pipe the first year if that's your favorite, with just air curing it'll take a while, at least a year before it's good.
Yes I know that I will have to be patient... but it's not a problem.
And if I really can't wait, I might finally build a kiln, but I don't plan on building one soon...

Thanks for your advices ;)
 

Charly

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I wouldn't grow Yenidje. It produces very little in comparison to other orientals.
If it produces very little but gives a unique taste (compared to other orientals) it should be interesting none the less ;)
Do you think it offers something special (tastewise or flavorwise ?)

My Japan 8 isn't sweet at all, but it is very unique and in small amounts contributes a lot to a blend. I don't know if it really is an oriental. It's more like a dark air to me.
I take note :) If it is very unique, it is a strain that I should try :)

Xanthi, Basma, yenidge are all from northern Greece. You might want to try different ones to see what grows best for you and tastes just right, but I wouldn't expect huge differences from them in regards to what they contribute to a blend. Look through the forum sections on orientals for threads started by Istanbulin. He has a number of threads which help you to understand the different types of orientals. You see, you might want to try one xanthi(Greek) or Prilep(Macedonia, just across the border), one samsun (black sea region of Turkey), or something from Eastern turkey or Iran. Bursa is from Marmara area;

So I can reduce my oriental list, it should be :
- Prilep
- Bursa
- Xanthi
- Black Sea Samsun
Thank you :)

Bursa is from Marmara area; I found it interesting how variable it can be depending on how you grow it- wide spacing, greenhouse, close spacing, topped, not topped, etc. You can very much notice a difference in flavour, strength, etc and can hand sort out a number of grades after curing depending on leaf size, texture and colour.
I noted the same things with my rustica (mapacho), the flavor, the sugar, the size of the leaves, their color... it changes a lot with how and where you grow it :)

The most flavorfull bright tobacco I've grown is Frog Eye Orinoco. I'm happy with Costello Negro too, but didn't grow as much quantity as others.
Did you try to air cure it ?

MD609 air cured is one of the best I've grown. It somehow remains sweet even though it's air cured. It grew well. It also makes good cavendish.
I take note :)

Thank you for your reply and advices !
 

Jitterbugdude

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My comments:

Yenidje: Very flavorful. Can be smoked all by itself. Yield is about average for a Turkish variety ( about 1/2 oz)
Samsun-Maden: Also very flavorful. Slightly different taste than Yenidje. Yield is closer to 1 oz
Bursa: Good taste, Big leaves for a Turkish.
Little Dutch: Very unique flavor. Makes a good pipe blend when mixed with some flue cured and Perique. You can also use it as a cigar filler. This was a common filler in America up until about the 1880's.
Prilep: I find to be bland compared to the tobaccos just listed.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I have not grown Izmir or Prilep, but Whole Leaf Tobacco sells it, and i greatly prefer Izmir because, in agreement with Jitterbugdude, it has more flavour.

All of my Frog Eye Orinoco was air cured, whereas all of my Costello Negro is flue cured.
 

squeezyjohn

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I'd like to echo the comments that say you should look for plants that grow well in your 'terroir' and given that your garden is not big I suggest looking towards plants that will also give a higher yield! I wasted many years of my growing trying to get varieties which did not want to grow for me. If you plant one or two specimens of ones you really want to try then that can be a test to see if they grow well and you can do more the next year. This hobby IS all about experimenting ... but it's nice to actually get some decent amount of leaf too!
 

Charly

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Thank you Jitterbugdude and ChinaVoodoo, it's interesting that you find Prilep to be "bland"/less aromatic than other orientals, I will see if I maintain Prilep in my list (I tried the version from WholeLeafTobacco, thanks to Gavroche, and I liked it, I found it has a pleasant fragrance, something I would describe as "animal" or exotic)

Squeezyjohn, I fully agree with you, I will have to test and try what strains work in my 'terroir' :)
I prefer growing a little too many different strains so I can learn what works and what variety I should keep next years
Of course, it's nice to get a good amount of leaves, but I don't need a big amount of tobacco (I don't smoke as often as I would like), for now I prefer less quantity from more different strains :)
Once I will have tried some, I will be able to select more efficently what I'll grow next years.
 

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I found sun curing the flue cure varieties to fall in sweetness between air cured and flue cure processed. Sun curing the flue cure varieties may be sweet enough for you that you don't need the actual flue cure process. I sun cure all my flue cure varieties for cigarettes and pipe and I am actually quite satisfied with the sun curing. It's also quite simple to do.

Have you read the home made Cavendish thread? http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/637-Making-Black-Cavendish-Pipe-Tobacco

Key threads in the Forum: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/3868-Key-threads-in-the-FTT-forum

Deluxestogies pipe blending: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/3926-Pure-Tobacco-Pipe-Blends-You-Can-Make
 

Charly

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Hi Knucklehead, I have gone through a lot of threads here :) (including the cavendish and the pipe blending threads)
I cured my "cherry red 401" using sun and air :) The leaves are not homogeneous at all (some are yellow with some brown, some are brown and red, some have 3 different colors...) and have different tastes (while quite fresh for now).
They are really acid, so they taste "sweet" :) I am really looking forward to what they will become with a little bit of time :)
 

squeezyjohn

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I'd love to have a go at sun curing some of my tobacco ... if only there was any sun here in the UK autumn!
 

Alpine

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Of course not Gav, but kilning makes almost all tobacco smokeable, i was referring to Charly's post about brown/yellow/red/ partially green leaves. Kilning improves the taste of all air cured baccy (or Sun cured) but it's only a speed-aging tecnique! Making perique or cavendish is a much stronger treatment that alters the original flavour much more. Kilning renders tobacco good for smoking in 4 to 5 weeks, natural ageing requires months or years to be completed.
Pier
 

deluxestogie

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I think all is already in the title :D

I am a pipe smoker...
- "Prilep" (Prilep P66-9/7 ?) (it seems the most fragrant and aromatic of all orientals ?)
- "Izmir Ozbas"
- "Yenidje"
- "Black Sea Samsun" or "Samsun Maden" (what's the difference ?)
- "Basma" or "Baffra Basma" (what's the difference ?)
- "Xanthi"
- "Bursa"
- "Bolivian Criollo Black"
- "Little Dutch" or "Japan 8" (lot of sugar ?)
- "Havana" (142 or 503 ?)
- "Yellow Orinoco" (makes a very good chew and a nice flavorful pipe tobacco.)
- "Perique" (for air curing AND perique processing)
- "Maryland MD 609" (toasted, it seems to mary well with VAs)
Prilep, Izmir Ozbas, Izmir (sometimes called Smyrna), Xanthi, and Yenidje (probably same as Xanthi) are all Basma types. Prilep is more floral, while Izmir varieties are usualy richer in flavor. Just pick one that you can find. These are best planted at a spacing of 6-9 inches, in order to produce the traditional small leaf. They are not topped. Excellent when sun-cured.

Samsun types have a leaf petiole (the base of the leaf stem is relatively free of lamina), produce a much larger leaf than Basma types, are more intense in nicotine, and are traditionally planted at wider spacing--say, 18 inches. Samsun, Samsun-Maden, Trabzon, and Bafra are representatives. These can be sun-cured, or air-cured and kilned. Samsun is the common "Turkish" in American cigarette blends.

Flue-cure varieties (Orinoco types) are always topped. My favorite in this group is Virginia Bright Leaf, but other forum members have grown a greater variety of flue-cure types, and their recommendations should be considered. These are all worlds better when actually flue-cured, though sun-curing can get you part way there. Spacing is 18 to 24 inches.

Maryland types are useful for pipe as well as cigar blending, with a medium nicotine, and often a high yield. I find their flavor to be non-specific. They are excellent at absorbing liquids and flavorings, if that is your interest.

Any variety can be made into Perique-processed leaf. Likewise, any variety can be steamed into Cavendish.

My suggestion would be to aim at pipe blending, postponing cigar types to a subsequent grow.

I would recommend:
  • one Oriental
  • one flue-cure type
  • one additional variety
  • make Cavendish from any of the above
  • make Perique from any of the above
  • blend away!
If you enjoy Latakia pipe blends, your best approach would be to purchase some (a lot) from WLT. It's certainly possible to make your own from any Oriental variety, but obtaining the critical fire-curing ingredient (mastic wood) is the barrier. Using other woods just doesn't create the expected aroma.

Build a kiln. That will spare you the agony of kicking yourself after you finally build one. $50-$100, plus one day of work. Many years of satisfaction.

Good luck with your grow.

Bob
 

Charly

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Thank you Bob for those precious informations :)

My goal for next year is to try many varieties, so I can try some blending.
Growing only one oriental + one flue cure + one additionnal seems to me to be not enough ... maybe I am crazy ? who knows :D

I already begun trying to make perique, it is in the jar, under low pressure (I used "cherry red 401").

About the orientals, I suppose each different variety offers unique taste and aroma, am I wrong ?
That's why I would like to try more than one oriental :)

Cigar types of tobacco does sometimes blend very well in a pipe (see GLPease : KeyLargo, Robusto), so does dark air types, and the good news is that you don't need to grow a big amount, as a small amount gives a lot in a blend.

Maryland is the type that interests me the less, I am not planning on adding sauces to my tobacco, I prefer to enjoy the natural taste and aroma of tobacco.

I plan on :
- 3 ou 4 orientals (maybe "Xanthi", "Bursa", "Black Sea Samsun" and "Prilep")
- one or two flue cured ("Frog Eye Orinoco" and another one)
- one dark air ("Bolivian Criollo Black" or "Japan 8")
- one or two cigar filler ("Vuelta Abajo" and "Little Dutch" or else ?)
- and maybe one or two more :) even if I put only a couple of plant of these strains.

If you have a really tasty and aromatic type to recommand, I am listening ;)

Everyone urge me to build a kiln... I should perhaps try to find the time to build one :)
 

Charly

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Thank you Jitterbugdude :)
The choice I made (which can evolve) is based on the recommandations of you guys :) From different topics I've read.

The Semois seed from Gavroche gave me some nice leaves, and those that I've tested have a really nice flavor, even better (in my opinion) than commercial Semois (even if those leaves are only a few weeks/month old :))

I keep reading as much topics as I can to try to find one or two other flavorfull and aromatic strains ;)

By the way, I plan on order some of my seeds from "northwoodseeds.com" do you know if they send to France ? (I even ask myself if we are allowed to import seeds to France ?)
 
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