Java Sun Cured

[Tutu]

I would like to dedicate a thread to Javanese sun cured varieties. I plan on collecting as many of these varieties while I am here on East Java. I will make them available to other forum members.

In 2012 Bob dedicated a thread to Indonesian Tobacco in the Cigar Tobaccos section of this forum. Recently I started a Besuki thread. I also started a Kasturi thread in the Cigarette Tobaccos section. Besuki is a cigar variety, and the Kasturi has a wider span than just Java or Indonesia. I do intend to include Kasturi and its sub-varieties in this thread, but I hope to include many more.

When people talk about Indonesian tobacco they are likely to mention varieties such as Sumatra, Deli, Besuki, Kasturi, Jatim, Vorstenlanden, Timor, and a few others. In this thread, I want to have a look at what those Jatim varieties are. "Jatim" is simply an abbreviation of "Jawa Timor", or East Java. It encompasses many different tobaccos. I believe that Jatim and Kasturi are two branches at the same height of the family tree, but nevertheless I will enlist Kasturi varieties here with sub-varieties of Jatim, and their sub-sub varieties.

The first idea I had was to index all the varieties to be found on Java. After that I would start collecting them. However, that is a never-ending job. I started doing it, but there is just an endless list of names going around on Indonesian web blogs. Rather than stare blindly at what I don't have available, I would be more happy to make a list of what I do have, and extend that list bit by bit. I have a full-time job, but I pass tobacco fields now and then, and am able to ask farmers what types they are growing. If possible, I take seedpods with me from selected plants. I live on East Java, but this should not be restricted to varieties on East Java per se. Also, I suppose there are other sun cured varieties on other islands, but we have to draw the line somewhere. For instance, there is the variety Lombok, from the island Lombok. Then again, I've heard that this Lombok is grown in East Java as well. If I find it, it will be included here.

To read more about the Kasturi varieties that I have collected, you may view that specific thread. I will update anything from there on this one. Yesterday, I was not only able to find the Kasturi Somporis, but also a tobacco called Mersi, which is a Paiton tobacco. Paiton is included in the list that Bob made in his Indonesian Tobacco thread. Thus, so far there are three varieties in the Java Sun Cured list. I hope to enlist more in the next few days.


Kasturi Jepun
Kasturi Somporis

Paiton Mersi

 

[Tutu]

Today I drove around in the area between Jember and Bondowoso, including the foot of Mount Argopuro. I've talked to about twenty farmers in the area and I think I have got a better picture of what things are at the moment, hence the early update.

The majority of farmers tell me they are growing Samporis. They all tell me that this is not a Kasturi plant, but a stand-alone variety. It is a Virginia like type, which grows tall, with long leafs. This is the type of leaf that is predominantly used for rajangan. They cut the green leaf in small shreds and dry it in the sun. This has been discussed in other threads on Indonesian Tobacco already. If you want to see what it looks like, search Google Images for "tembakau rajangan". Some other farmers told me they were growing a variety called Morris. Some have told me that this is similar to Samporis, others say it is exactly the same, just a different name. I assume they are the same, but I will grow both seeds to see what they look like. I also found another field with plants that looked much shorter, and leafs that look different. I am guessing it is Kasturi Balino. There were no seedpods yet, and neither was there anybody around to tell me what it was. Just an old lady passing by who was left clueless, both by me and by the tobacco.

The place near Tamanan where I was told that the tobacco was called Mersi was deserted. The guy who had previously told me that the name was Mersi, was a farmer from a field next to it. No other farmer whom I asked had ever heard of Mersi. Therefore I started to doubt whether it really is called Mersi, or that it is just Samporis as well. Then again, the internet mentions it as a Paiton variety, or maybe as a variety grown in the Paiton area. I can't make that out. I am going to pass by that place tomorrow morning and afternoon to see if there's anybody around. It seemed as if they started clearing the field, and they did not finish today. I already have the seed, but I just need the actual farmer to tell me what variety it is.

Also, I decided that I am not going to enlist sub-varieties here. For instance, the different types of Kasturi will not make it to the list. That way, the Kasturi thread itself is still useful to unravel that variety. Mersi will not yet make it to the list, because I can't be too sure about it. Neither does Morris make the list, because I think it is the same as Samporis. These are things that need more research. Meaning that for now the list is rather short, but at least I can vouch for both of these.

Kasturi
Samporis

 

[deluxestogie]

It sounds like you have set out a difficult task for yourself.

I stumbled onto this site in English, on Indonesian tobacco: http://www.ptids.co.id/tobacco.php Although it lists very few actual varietal names, it does mention specific geographic areas.

Bob

 

[Tutu]

I am going to be happy with anything I can find, and I won't dwell over varieties I will never obtain. In a year there might be only a few varieties that I've added to the list, but at least I don't need to start a new thread with every new thing I find. The website you listed is one of the few that gives an accurate overview of different tobaccos produced in Indonesia. In terms of sun cured, the names of the region are mostly the varietal names too. For instance Bojonegoro, Jombang, Paiton are both areas and the names of the sun cured variety from that area. Problem is, that these places are not very close to Jember, especially not if you take the traffic into account. Lumajang is first on my list, because it's a regency west of Jember, but the stuff is grown in the VO season, which is early in the year.

Today I was able to find the farmer who had told me that the tobacco I had sourced was called Mersi, and when I asked him if it was any different from Samporis or Morris, he said it was exactly the same. I also met another farmer who was growing White Stem Burley, as well as many Kasturi farmers in the Kalisat area. For now my plan is to grow the four Samporis collections and see if they are all the same. I am also going to grow the different Kasturi seeds. But first I've got my Timor-Leste plants coming up which are getting bigger and bigger, as well as one Besuki seedling which is way ahead of its brothers and sisters.

 

[Tutu]

This thread is probably going to be an endless strain of posts by me confirming and rejecting different names of varieties. It's a fun job to be after something and find out new things everyday. Today I found a booklet at a tobacco redry facility which had information on rajangan tobacco. To my surprise, it mentions two of the varieties that I came across on my trips. Although there is hardly any information about it on the internet, there is in this little book. This info is quite valuable for my search.

Tobacco Rajang is categorized as VoorOogst tobacco, it is planted around June and will be harvested in September. The Rajang tobacco varieties includes Samphoris and Moris. The Rajang tobacco of Jember easily grown in Northern areas of Jelbug and Armada by farmers. The Rajang tobacco does not require large land, but can be grown on land that is narrow and slope. The size of the area in 2011 was 1.663 ha.

There we have a source that mentions both Samphoris and Moris as if it were different varieties of Rajang tobacco. On the internet I had already found a text mentioning both Moris and Mersi as being two different tobacco's. I am led to believe that these might be different varieties after all, all used for Rajang. So, I am including them in the list, and will find out after growing them if they are indeed any different from one another.

Kasturi
Samphoris
Moris
Mersi

 

[Hasse SWE]

This thread is probably going to be an endless strain of posts by me confirming and rejecting different names of varieties. It's a fun job to be after something and find out new things everyday. Today I found a booklet at a tobacco redry facility which had information on rajangan tobacco. To my surprise, it mentions two of the varieties that I came across on my trips. Although there is hardly any information about it on the internet, there is in this little book. This info is quite valuable for my search.




There we have a source that mentions both Samphoris and Moris as if it were different varieties of Rajang tobacco. On the internet I had already found a text mentioning both Moris and Mersi as being two different tobacco's. I am led to believe that these might be different varieties after all, all used for Rajang. So, I am including them in the list, and will find out after growing them if they are indeed any different from one another.

Kasturi
Samphoris
Moris
Mersi

I think you do right when you separate the different names.
I ain't shore but probably they have different levels of resistants..
I have trying to find some info my self to help you to separate different variants (but sometimes it's close to impossible)..

 

[Tutu]

You are right, there are probably slight differences. However, there are slight differences between the Kasturi varieties as well. The more I read about Rajangan varieties, the more I believe it is comparable to the division of Kasturi varieties. So maybe it would be best to keep two lists. One list of obtained Sun Cured varieties on Java, and one list of sub-varieties, where there are any. The Java Sun Cured list would then be one that is more permanent, whereas the Java Sub-Varieties would be one of confirming and debunking. If you are interested in the sources from where I conclude that Samporis and Moris are different Rajangan varieties, you may have a look here, here, and here. For the Mersi variety, it is mentioned as something different than Moris here. Again, this is not meant to be a list of what exists, but a list of what I have obtained and what I could share with anyone who is interested.

Java Sun Cured

Kasturi
Rajangan

Java Sub-Varieties

Kasturi Jepun Tinggi
Kasturi Jepun Pendek
Kasturi Jepun Angsa
Kasturi Balino
Rajangan Samporis
Rajangan Moris
Rajangan Mersi

 

[Hasse SWE]

Yes I really believe it's similar with Kasturi (that is the tobacco I most trying to learn about at the moment). Actually it's similar with all tobacco and other things you can grow, similar and small differences between the"original" and the other variants, but even small differences can be good to know about.

 

[Tutu]

Through the agronomist I work with I was able to meet a certified seed producer here in Jember. It was nice to talk to the guy, he had lots of great stories, and it was nice to exchange seeds. I gave him some of the Amersfoort seed, and in return I got a bunch of seeds out of the varieties that he distributes. One of them is the Besuki H382. The other cigar variety he had was the Deli, from Sumatra. He also gave me seeds of Rajangan Samporis, which will be nice to compare to the Samporis collected from several fields. I made another Samporis collection from a village quite high up Mount Argopuro today. Two other varieties that had not yet made it into the list on this page are Kasturi Mawar, and Lumajang. They will be added to the list accordingly. I am not quite sure in what way Kasturi Mawar is different from the other Kasturi's. What I do know is that Lumajang tobacco is apparantly valued for the number of white spots on its leaf. It is said, that tobacco with more white spots is of better taste. I wouldn't know to what extend that is correct.


Java Sun Cured

Lumajang
Kasturi
Rajangan


Java Sub-Varieties

Lumajang
Kasturi Jepun Tinggi
Kasturi Jepun Pendek
Kasturi Jepun Angsa
Kasturi Mawar
Kasturi Balino
Rajangan Samporis
Rajangan Moris
Rajangan Mersi

 

[deluxestogie]

BigBonner has said something similar about white spots on burley.

Bob

 

[Jitterbugdude]

White spots, also known as Weather Fleck are caused by Ozone damage. White spotted leaf commanded a high premium in the U.S. back in the early 1900's but like most things cigar related it fell out of demand probably because something "new and better" came along.

 

[Hasse SWE]

Here is a interesting file from 2014-2015 about Indonesian tobacco:http://buletintas.or.id/index.php/buletin/article/download/75/71

 

[Tutu]

The article that Hasse dug up is an interesting one, focussing on Rajangan tobacco. To summarize, they made field trips to collect different seed from Rajangan field to compare how they are different and which performed best. Not much different from what I am trying to do here myself. The introduction let me to search for some other keywords and I found another article which cited in the one Hasse posted, this one. It tells us that originally there were two Rajangan varieties in the Bondowoso area, called Sompor and Moris. Farmers started crossing the two and there was an abundance of different varieties, all very much alike, but a little bit different. They called it Samporis. This explains the variety of names given by the farmers I have encountered. The article I just mentioned also says that it was agreed that this tobacco is to be called the Maesan tobacco. Maesan is a sub-district of Bondowoso. This is also the region where I collected the Somporis. Rather than calling the tobacco Rajangan, which refers to the method of cutting the tobacco, I would prefer to call it Maesan. This is also one of the varieties named by Bob in the Indonesian Tobaccos thread. I will make an effort to find out how many different Maesan varieties I can find. From now on, the variety will be listed as Maesan, rather than Rajangan. There are likely to be many other varieties that are cut in the Rajangan way, where the variety may be very different from Sompor, Moris, Somporis, or any other from the Maesan region of Bondowoso.


Java Sun Cured

Lumajang
Maesan
Kasturi


Java Sub-Varieties

Lumajang
Maesan Samporis
Maesan Moris
Maesan Mersi
Kasturi Jepun Tinggi
Kasturi Jepun Pendek
Kasturi Jepun Angsa
Kasturi Mawar
Kasturi Balino

 

[Hasse SWE]

Through the agronomist I work with I was able to meet a certified seed producer here in Jember. It was nice to talk to the guy, he had lots of great stories, and it was nice to exchange seeds. I gave him some of the Amersfoort seed, and in return I got a bunch of seeds out of the varieties that he distributes. One of them is the Besuki H382. The other cigar variety he had was the Deli, from Sumatra. He also gave me seeds of Rajangan Samporis, which will be nice to compare to the Samporis collected from several fields. I made another Samporis collection from a village quite high up Mount Argopuro today. Two other varieties that had not yet made it into the list on this page are Kasturi Mawar, and Lumajang. They will be added to the list accordingly. I am not quite sure in what way Kasturi Mawar is different from the other Kasturi's. What I do know is that Lumajang tobacco is apparantly valued for the number of white spots on its leaf. It is said, that tobacco with more white spots is of better taste. I wouldn't know to what extend that is correct.


Java Sun Cured

Lumajang
Kasturi
Rajangan


Java Sub-Varieties

Lumajang
Kasturi Jepun Tinggi
Kasturi Jepun Pendek
Kasturi Jepun Angsa
Kasturi Mawar
Kasturi Balino
Rajangan Samporis
Rajangan Moris
Rajangan Mersi

"Tutu" That sounds interesting (and something I will remember). I have growing some Orient tobacco's that looking really ugly if you ask me, I remember mostly one variant (Duzce) that was Changed color extremely much. A leaf could be yellow, red, and beautifully brown (I think I have grown the variety for two seasons).
I was sending some seeds to a pipe smoker who was growing it (maybe still do), he also took me one my world and took his time and sat and cut out all the red fields and used the separate.
That part would in fact be the most aromatic and contain more nicotine than the other parts.
The thing is that he agreed that these particular parts were the most delicious (to smoke), I can almost see him in front of me to sit there and cut the leaves, a hell job and a waste of leaves if you ask me. But the same time very fun to get it confirmed.
-So when you tell us that the bright spots is an indication that the tobacco is good and of high quality laughs, I almost see the old man sit there and cut light box out of a sheet and red fields from another..

 

[Hasse SWE]

Tutu I was send that file to you just because the work they have done is very similar to your work. But I also think they was having bigger and better Conditions to go into depth in their researches. Bit you shall also known that sometimes a "Low-budget survey" can become more interesting. I actually love when I found a tables with Nicotine (and other Alkaloids). But also.. The level one that needs to be taken with small attention (when I growing I can't say if my tobacco will have the same level or not).

 

[Tutu]

That's right, it's more in-depth. Then again, their focus is only on Samporis / Maesan. I intend to cover many more varieties so it will much more be an overall thing.
I drove to Situbondo, the North coast on my end of East Java. A long drive, considering I found only one tobacco field in the area. It took me a while to locate it's owner, but I managed to do so. He told me what I already expected... Kasturi. All leafs were still on the plant though, nothing harvested, quite rare to see around this time of year in Indonesia. He told me this was Kasturi Angsa, the Kasturi with the swan-neck-like-leafs. I've seen it in Jember too, and I must say that I got the feeling that this was a slightly different Kasturi. I took some green seedpods which I will dry later on. The guy told me that it is not a Kasturi Jepun, so not Kasturi Jepun Angsa, but Kasturi Angsa. Thus, I might have to change that on the list of Java Sub-Varieties accordingly. Also, thinking it through, all Kasturi's are short plants (pendek). Thus, the Kasturi that is tall (tinggi) might as well be named Kasturi Tinggi. Kasturi Jepun Pendek then becomes Kasturi Jepun.

Java Sun Cured

Lumajang
Maesan
Kasturi


Java Sub-Varieties

Lumajang
Maesan Samporis
Maesan Moris
Maesan Mersi
Kasturi Jepun
Kasturi Tinggi
Kasturi Angsa
Kasturi Mawar
Kasturi Balino

 

[Hasse SWE]

I have also been sitting and looking one that PDF-file and...This page was what I found, perhaps something for you...http://eproduk.litbang.pertanian.go.id/order.php?ipa=251

 

[Tutu]

Definitely something for me Hasse, thanks. Going to order all the tobacco varieties they have available (7). I also should be planning a trip to the Ledokombo area. It is quite close from where I live. The website mentions having the Kasturi Ledok Ombo. I am wondering whether it is a Kasturi, because it looks quite different from most Kasturi's on pictures. They also call the Lumajang tobacco a Kasturi Lumajang now and then. The naming of tobacco is funny sometimes. Planning a big Kasturi grow out sometime. The problem is that there are many grow outs in the making. The Timor-Leste comparison, the Maesan comparison, and now starting the Kasturi x Amersfoort cross, as well as the cross the other way 'round. I'll get there someday though... I'll order some first... Thanks Hasse!

 

[deluxestogie]

Have you considered making up a map of the geographic varieties that you've collected? In your spare time, of course. It might help clarify all the place names that you discuss.

Bob

 

[Tutu]

Alright let's do that! I've made a map of where I've seen varieties. That does not mean they are exclusive to the marked areas. This map will probably need a few updates.
First a map of Indonesia as a whole. The red circle indicates the area where I've collected the Java Sun Cured varieties so far. The black circle is set around Timor-Leste, from the Timor-Leste Grow Adventure. The purple circle is the island Sumba, where I'll go in a few weeks to try and find some tobacco.
Besides Java Sun Cured, I've included the places where most Besuki and White Burley is grown. Later on when more varieties are added, we might have to zoom out to include more of East Java, as well as Central and West Java. For now this is sufficient. I have not added a circle for Lumajang, as I do not have a clear picture in which area it is grown. Neither do I have a good overview of where which Kasturi type is grown. I suspect them to be mixed all around. I've highlighted the Kasturi Angsa collection today in pink. Hopefully this gives a bit of an idea where I've got each variety from. Feel free to ask any questions. This is only a very rough sketch.