Buy Tobacco Leaf Online | Whole Leaf Tobacco

Any good detailed books about fermenting?

Status
Not open for further replies.

justin1287

New Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
3
Points
0
Any good detailed books/resources about fermenting?

I looked around today and didn't really find anything.

Thanks for any help and Happy New Year!
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
23,931
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
SHORT ANSWER: NO. (I own nearly every book on tobacco, published in English during the past 150 years (as well as some in a few other languages.)

Welcome to the forum. You have chosen an auspicious date for your first post. If you place your general location in your profile, then it will appear alongside each of your posts.

Arizona Dave and Smokin Harley are not just bragging. There really is no useful publication that meaningfully discusses tobacco fermentation. So, you can't buy the information (yet). This forum does include lengthy and detailed discussions of the science, the process and the techniques.

FTT forum is not as well organized as a book (ha!), but fermentation is widely discussed in the present sub-forum: http://fairtradetobacco.com/forums/35-Fermenting

The closest thing to an index is the Key Threads page: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/3868-Key-threads-in-the-FTT-forum

We discuss the subject of tobacco fermentation so frequently (and in so many different thread subjects) that I never really noticed that there is no dedicated thread focused on the science and techniques of tobacco fermentation (aside from kiln construction). Maybe I'll cook one up this winter.

In the mean time, feel free to ask any specific questions you may have.

Bob

EDIT: If you search archive.org for "tobacco", and ignore all the anti-tobacco stuff, there are a few books from the late 1800s and early 1900s that do contain a smattering of pearls among the voluminous chaff. Do check Loew, Oscar: Curing and Fermentation of Cigar Leaf, USDA, 1899. (It's only 34 pages, and downloadable as a .pdf: https://archive.org/details/curingandfermen00loewgoog Scroll down to see available formats for download.)
 

Smokin Harley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2,573
Points
48
Location
Grant ,Alabama
If you would like to buy a book to keep nearby or at least just for periodic reading , pick up a copy of
" The Tobacconist Handbook" by Jorge L. Armenteros ,CMT., isbn - 9781439247983
It has a wide and helpful range of information and tips all through it, illustrations and a few sidebars of actual observations.
I keep my copy in the "library" .
It doesn't have nearly the depth of information found in here by members who have personal experience but even after reading it cover to cover in 2 days , I'd bet I look at it at least twice a week.
 

justin1287

New Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
3
Points
0
Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it!

So, I'm really trying to replicate Thai Sticks in a more sanitary fashion. I would rather not bury the plant material in goat intestines (which I think is one method) for obvious reasons. I'm guessing this puts the plant material through a type of fermentation process. I think a room temperature fermentation will probably work best, but am not 100% sure.

If anyone has any ideas to get me moving forward, then that would be much appreciated.

Thanks again!
 

Smokin Harley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2,573
Points
48
Location
Grant ,Alabama
goat intestines??? thats a new one on me...
ok I actually had to re-read your last post . I have no clue what thai sticks are but if it entails burying goat intestines stuffed with tobacco leaf to ferment , I think you could probably ferment some leaf by a perique (pressure)method or simply moisten the leaf ,bag ,seal and heat for a period of time(kilning)or even a navy roll (carrotte) which is a moistening, rolling tightly (not quite the pressure of a perique) within a semi-vapor proof wrap (sailcloth/canvas)and waiting.
how much tobacco leaf do you have to process?
You can build a small kiln out of very obtainable items and shouldnt take you more than a weekend to assemble. basically a box with a controllable heat source and a little moisture and of course time. its not quite a set it and forget it type of process but its easy enough.
go to the page that deluxestogie linked for you about fermenting. take the time to read through it thoroughly. Should be all the information you need to answer your questions.
Many ways you can go to ferment leaf , try one or try them all.
 

justin1287

New Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
3
Points
0
I grew some tobacco several years ago and it is super harsh. I am also a legal hemp grower in Colorado too, but I think this process is interesting. I just don't really understand what is going on with the process.
 

Leftynick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
388
Points
28
Location
Malaysia
I have heard in Malaysia and Indonesia, they ferment tobacco in bamboo in about 1 month to 5 years to make it stronger tasting but never heard fermenting in goat intestine. the usual way of fermenting tobacco here is after they sun cure the tobacco they put it in weaved bamboo basket and pile it high and leave it for months. Ended up to be a dark, near black tobacco with intense flavor and very potent nicotine content. I think this is one variation of rope tobacco. We usually label this kind of tobacco as Tembakau Jawa or Javanese Tobacco, as it process originated from Java.
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
23,931
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
I just don't really understand what is going on with the process.
Within the leaf cells, there are two principal oxydase enzymes that break down albuminous proteins and carbohydrates. The process is not microbial. It requires some moisture to be present, and temperatures above about 60ºF. The enzymatic reaction is temperature dependent, up to the temp at which the enzymes are denatured (~149ºF for the primary and more active oxidase, and ~191ºF for the secondary and less active oxidase).

A kiln uses artificial heat (and moisture) at temps between ~120 and 130ºF. The process is complete or nearly complete after 1 month in the kiln. Above ~120ºF mold will not grow.

The pile method (those are the pilones used in the Caribbean growing areas) utilize a huge mass of tobacco (5 or more feet high, and at least that wide) to provide thermal insulation for the exothermic (heat-generating) action of the oxidase enzymes to heat the inner parts of the pile. The pile is broken down and re-built periodically, so that all the tobacco spends adequate time in the "heated" core of the pile.

Simply aging the tobacco in a shed (for 1 to 3 years) would eventually allow the same enzymatic processes to occur, so long as the temp is above ~60ºF (preferably higher), and there is adequate moisture, and the tobacco does not mold--which happens easily, when the average relative humidity remains above 70% for a few consecutive days.

So in sub-tropical and tropical areas, allowing tobacco to age under natural conditions is not usually practical. In temperate regions, it may be possible to age tobacco for prolonged periods in a ventilated shed.

For most home growers, the straightforward solution is to build a tobacco kiln ($50-$150), kiln tobacco for a month, then dry it down for storage.

Bob
 

Hasse SWE

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2013
Messages
1,315
Points
63
Location
Sweden (Värnamo)
I have heard in Malaysia and Indonesia, they ferment tobacco in bamboo in about 1 month to 5 years to make it stronger tasting but never heard fermenting in goat intestine. the usual way of fermenting tobacco here is after they sun cure the tobacco they put it in weaved bamboo basket and pile it high and leave it for months. Ended up to be a dark, near black tobacco with intense flavor and very potent nicotine content. I think this is one variation of rope tobacco. We usually label this kind of tobacco as Tembakau Jawa or Javanese Tobacco, as it process originated from Java.
That sounds interesting, is the sun cured tobacco dyed when they putting it in the basket?
Would be interesting to see pictures one that.

I have air cured tobacco half (light brown but not dried if you understand) than I took them and made balls of them (just like snowball) let them be some days and then I flake the tobacco, smelled sweet and nice, the tobacco was then red-black.
 

Leftynick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
388
Points
28
Location
Malaysia
This is example of using bamboo for tobacco making. But this page is in Indonesia, where they case the tobacco with brown sugar first, then stuff the tobacco in bamboo, and fire cure the bamboo with tobacco in it. In Malaysia it is much simpler, add some casing such as honey, stuff in bamboo, and ferment it for 5 month. They said this process give the tobacco more "kick" and much more mellow smoke.
https://unsharestory.wordpress.com/2013/08/14/tembakau-tua/
 

Smokin Harley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2,573
Points
48
Location
Grant ,Alabama
This is example of using bamboo for tobacco making. But this page is in Indonesia, where they case the tobacco with brown sugar first, then stuff the tobacco in bamboo, and fire cure the bamboo with tobacco in it. In Malaysia it is much simpler, add some casing such as honey, stuff in bamboo, and ferment it for 5 month. They said this process give the tobacco more "kick" and much more mellow smoke.
https://unsharestory.wordpress.com/2013/08/14/tembakau-tua/

This sounds just like an old way of making "plug" style tobacco, used for either pipe or orally.
 

burge

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Messages
1,573
Points
113
Location
Alberta
St James Perique is fermentation as well. Basically fermentation is the pressing of tobacco. Tobacco bales ferment the tobacco. It breaks down enzymes and melds the juices creating in most cases a more complex flavor. You can also do that when the tobacco is shredded by pressing down to a almost cake.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top