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Pressure Cooker Snus

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SmokesAhoy

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Taking a cue from my PCC (pressure cooker cavendish) red tip experiment for the pipe (in the finishing tobacco forum) I wanted to try it start to finish specifically for snus.

It had a great smell and taste after resting. So I wanted to try pressure cooking the flour for 4 hours.

Experiment 2, this time taking measurements:

65 grams red tip flour
75 grams water
6.5 grams salt

Cook will go at pressure for 4 hours.

After, 6.5 grams washing soda will be added and mixed thoroughly.

I will return to the pressure cooker and let it go for an additional hour. Then plan on mixing it periodically with a coffee filter cap such as used in the It's Gold thread over the course of the weekend, then sealing it on Monday to allow it to rest.

I really want to get something that isn't a multi day affair at least even if I can't get it as an instant mix, and based on the success of the PCC this is worth a shot. Will update as it progresses.

I'm basically copying John's basic recipe, but seeing if the pressure cooker can approximate a comparable end product in less time, thanks for reading.
 
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SmokesAhoy

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Re: Quick and easy snus like product

At 4 hours the pressure cooker was opened via cold water shower, 6.5 grams washing soda was dissolved in 1tbsp hot water and mixed good. Lid was returned and temp/pressure restored. It then cooked another 45 minutes when the element was turned off, pressure is being allowed to drop naturally while it soaks up the last of the heat (about 10-15 minutes so basically 1 hour post mix at temp all said). Next is allowing it to come to room temp then the frig to age.

So far, it looks, smells very much like the multi day crock pot method, but it's still too early to draw any conclusions I guess.

Look how black it turned out, doesn't smell burnt though

IMG_20161229_164708.jpg

The light is a warm white hood light, it's lightning up the picture.

I stuck a pris in, I always do, with water nearby to get initial taste. No burn, it must have equalized already with that hour cook so I'm gonna leave it in. It's not bad, but no good flavors have developed yet obviously, but still not bad. And definitely not burnt.
 
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SmokesAhoy

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Re: Quick and easy snus like product

Ok to sum up, not including the prep time on the flour, this is 5 hours start to finish maybe 5 and a half total.

That's not bad at all, flavor is identical to every fresh batch I've sampled from the crock pot cooks. Proof will be in the end product though, but this is so much quicker to get to the storage part I'm already thinking about doing another one with dark air this time.

I opened one of Don's 2012 vapor proof bags and the smell was awesome. It made almost 1 quart of powder without the midribs, in case anyone wondered what the conversion rate of 1 pound whole leaf to powder was:)
 

SmokesAhoy

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Re: Quick and easy snus like product

Commercial snus analyzed as
45% tobacco (they do half and half lamina/rib) I do only lamina
4% salt
3% soda
3% gly (propylene, it's cheaper than veg, I use latter)
45% h20

That is as analyzed on a wet weight basis (wwb)
 

SmokesAhoy

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Re: Quick and easy snus like product

Next batch will be with dark air and I will use those ratios, first batch will be all lamina, second will be 60/40 lamina/stem as the stem let's moisture pass easier through the mass, plus, if you use the stem there is less waste. I like that.

But, ultimately I want to test if the stem gives an inferior product or a perfectly acceptable one.

Ratio of water will be off because I always mix the soda with a little more water to aid in distribution.

Also, a product lighter on the soda would be gentler on the body. Will start the 2 batches on Monday.
 

SmokesAhoy

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Re: Quick and easy snus like product

IMG_20170103_120634.jpg

These were painstakingly measured out to match previous recipe amounts in this thread. Normally I eyeball, so it really was painful hehe.

The mix was 25 grams lamina, 20 grams rib, the lamina was 45 grams
4 grams salt
3 grams glycerine
45 grams water
Mix non tobacco ingredients until totally incorporated into hot water.

Resulting water mix totally incorporated into tobacco.
Next into pressure cooker for 5 hours.

Add 4 grams washing soda to 12 grams hot water, allow to go into solution entirely.

Mix into cooked flour thoroughly, return to pressure for 1 hour.




IMG_20170103_192116.jpg
All sealed and ready to go into the frig for aging. I'm curious if the seals will pop up from the off gassing while it ages.
 
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SmokesAhoy

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So 8 days was the longest I could wait. The pressure seal never popped up. I opened the lamina batch and added a teaspoon bulleit rye and a teaspoon water with a dash of bakers ammonia. Back in the frig for further aging.

I'd say this was a success. To sum up this far: 5 hours precook, 1 hour post soda cook. A week later adjust water lost from the cook with whiskey, water and baker's ammonia. It's all uphill from here and already good.
 

squeezyjohn

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Great to see it being done so scientifically. The real comparison would a taste test between finished and aged pressure cooker vs crock pot where all the other steps and ingredients are the same. My experience tells me that the hotter you go, the quicker the process, but also the hotter you cook, the more aromatic compounds (the aroma of the cured leaf) you lose. My assumption is that the only thing the pressure cooker does is make the boiling point of the water inside higher so you can cook at temperatures above boiling.

I have done side-by-side batches of identical snus cooked until it darkens sufficiently at different temperatures using the sous vide machine.

60ºC - 7 days
70ºC - 4 days
80ºC - 2 days
90ºC - 24 hours
100ºC - 6 hours (hard to control as the water was boiling the whole time and needed replacing)

My results were snuses of increasing darkness with increasing temperature. A richness of flavour and caramelization also increased while the more delicate aromas (chocolate, honey, vanilla tones) decreased with increasing temperature. The 60ºC version lacked body and had a malty, mealy taste while the 100ºC version lacked aroma and seemed slightly bitter. Since doing that experiment I have settled on temperatures in the 75-85ºC range for all my cooks with a cook time at between 1 and 3 days using the sous vide machine.

I can't wait to read what your finished product tastes like.
 

SmokesAhoy

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Thus far at a little over a week I can't tell the difference between crock and pressure. Maybe the extreme temps don't increase bitterness or burnt flavor if the cooking times are so much shorter?

What I really need to do though is actually buy some ettan or another plain snus and compare vs that. Illegal to have shipped to my house though and not sold here so I never tried it, just guessing as to what it's supposed to taste like based on descriptions.
 

SmokesAhoy

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How long do you reckon it would take if I put a jar in my kiln at 125f/52c? Honestly that would be the easiest if not the fastest.

Err wait that wouldn't get the good cooked flavors in and probably shoot up the tsnas, never mind, thinking out loud here I guess
 

SmokesAhoy

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Well it would be different, as there are reactions to the soda, the salt changes it etc. I think it would be quite a bit different from grabbing a leaf and popping it in my mouth. Might be closer to the original dips, but tsna would probably go up. I don't understand them that well but pretty sure you need at least denaturing levels of heat.

Maybe hybrid process, like 2 weeks in the kiln and an hour in the PC. That might be interesting.

Gotta think of that one more.
 

squeezyjohn

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All the documentation I've read suggest that the TSNAs that build up are due to a mixture of enzymic and bacterial activity on the tobacco in the curing process - other carcinogens are built up in the production of fire-cured leaf too. We home producers have no realistic way of checking the TSNA levels, it's just too expensive and specialist. I work under the pretext that the majority of TSNAs are produced in the curing process and so I try to maximise the amount of quickly air-cured leaf I use that is not aged in a kiln or other moist warm conditions ... and I like to get the cooking temperatures up to levels that denature the enzymes, or toast the tobacco before.

It's a shame - as many very delicious flavours develop in fermented tobaccos. My carotte tobacco for example is so rich and complex and I am cooking up a batch of snus using a little of that to get it's taste. But ultimately my goal is to try for the safest snus I can make myself at home so stuff like that is just for a treat!
 

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If you want to lower TSNAs you could plant low convertor seed (LC) or do like I do and make dip/snus from your tobacco the moment it has browned.
 

squeezyjohn

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Good post Jitterbugdude, that's basically what I do. And if I keep the flour, I toast it before grinding and then keep it at nearly zero moisture levels in airtight containers.
 

SmokesAhoy

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Will have to give that a try next year, I don't have access to fresh brown leaf right now.

I've gotta say I'm pretty happy with how the all lamina batch turned out though. Same flavor as the mix obviously but it's much softer. I just don't know if it's "right" without having tried the ettan, but I guess in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter because I do like it a lot already at just over a week. Certainly worth doing it like this until the itch to experiment comes on again.
 

squeezyjohn

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All lamina blends will also make the snus stronger and richer tasting. The only down side is if the leaf has much bitterness to it then that is also ampified. I don't really use stems now.
 

SmokesAhoy

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Update, it's great. This was a totally comparable product to the low and slow method.

The all lamina blend is a little too strong, it's nice at the end of the day. The mix is good in a portion wrap as is but I don't like the texture of the stem otherwise.

I've heard about bitterness in dark air but that might be subjective, I love dark air smell and flavor. It would be my "if you could only grow one type" scenario plant.

Next year I'm going to try a batch with sun cured dark air, some of my experiments with sun cured leaves have been great. Especially vuelta.
 

SmokesAhoy

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I'm almost out! This was good next trying another puro blend this time with ct broadleaf! Also doing a 4 hour initial cook, then will let it cool down naturally overnight and do the last hour in the morning.

About this being the equivalent of a 240-250 bake, I don't know if that's true, it seems like it would be but when I bake food at much higher temps for the same time it's not the same as a pressure cook. I pressure cook a rack of ribs for 15 minutes with a few ounces of water and meat falls off the bones, cartilage is soft, that would take hours in the oven.

I don't know the science behind it but this works great.
 
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