I guess if you are fully aware that you're being robbed by your government, it's technically not corrupt.
Hi everyone does anyone know where is Don of WLT?
- Thread starter Davidoff
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I guess if you are fully aware that you're being robbed by your government, it's technically not corrupt.
Davidoff
Member
Here is what I have got with Don's parcel today. Thanks Don 5 pounds WLT
Davidoff
Member
It tools me 8 days to arrived
Davidoff
Member
Davidoff
Member
However, as you guys can see with the letter attached with the NZ customs, why there are no charge for some kind of tobaccos? And why should they showing this letter for me? It use to be no this kind of letters included while we received Don's parcels. Are they trying to warning us not to exceed the limited which is 15kg per yr?
It might help if you were to proof read your comments before sending, but I think you are under the impression that customs attached all of that paperwork when in fact it is I who attached all of the documents. We do that to try to help educate the customs agents on what the real law is.
Davidoff
Member
Hi Don, just my mate receive it last night and I ask him to email me with the received notice anyway thx for that
Orson Carte
Well-Known Member
If it's of any interest to anyone, I'm still waiting for my 6lb order to be released by Customs. That QTC outfit that does the 'heat treatment' told me they're sending it back to the Mail Centre this morning (Fri 10 Feb). QTC have had it in their lab (or whatever) for almost a month. I paid to have it tested four weeks ago.
I'm still reasonably confident that I will eventually receive the parcel at my door. I'm just hoping that this heat treatment process doesn't completely bugger it - who knows, it might actually enhance it!
Davidoff, I don't know where you get this idea that there is a limit of 15kg (per person) per year - I've never read that anywhere. Maybe you're thinking of the fact that any individual in NZ is allowed to GROW up to 15kg, on their own land for their own (sole) use.
What I do know, from revelations unearthed in this thread, is that if you try and import anything more than 10lbs (4.5kg) you're going to get charged both GST AND Excise Duty. I'm picking that the actual threshold is probably 5kg (11lbs) but I wouldn't be game enough to push it that close.
I'm still reasonably confident that I will eventually receive the parcel at my door. I'm just hoping that this heat treatment process doesn't completely bugger it - who knows, it might actually enhance it!
Davidoff, I don't know where you get this idea that there is a limit of 15kg (per person) per year - I've never read that anywhere. Maybe you're thinking of the fact that any individual in NZ is allowed to GROW up to 15kg, on their own land for their own (sole) use.
What I do know, from revelations unearthed in this thread, is that if you try and import anything more than 10lbs (4.5kg) you're going to get charged both GST AND Excise Duty. I'm picking that the actual threshold is probably 5kg (11lbs) but I wouldn't be game enough to push it that close.
Orson Carte
Well-Known Member
Well, after waiting just over seven weeks from the date that my 6lb shipment was dispatched I finally have it at hand.
I realise that my following comments really only have relevance for New Zealanders, for the record I will say this;
Firstly, this is in no way any disparagement of WLT. Everything done by the supplier is first-class. Extremely efficient and professional.
It would appear that the great majority of shipments (provided they don't exceed the 5kg threshold) are hastily shuffled on, unscrutinised by Customs, and are delivered within week to ten days after leaving the US.
It is also true that (probably) random packages, for no obvious reason are held-up for 'heat treatment' - on the pretence that they 'show signs of disease'.
How this could be determined, without actually opening the sealed package, I really don't know. This is obvious because those parcels streaming through, unscathed, have on delivery not been opened for any inspection.
Once the package is caught-up with this treatment requirement there is really no option but to pay your money and play their game. (The alternatives are either returning the consignment at your own expense or having it destroyed for free)!
My guess is that the true reason for opening random packages is to check that they don't contain anything illegal. And, if this is true you'd think that by now Customs would know that this just isn't a possibility. Also, because they have engaged an independent contractor to do the testing (of all sorts of plant and animal items) they are essentially committed to keep him in business. (Sounds cynical, I know, but I'd bet my left-one that it's true.
The only other thing that I will add is that this 'heat treatment' is done without actually opening the sealed packages. But regardless of however it is actually done, it certainly changes the appearance and condition of the leaf. I've seen Red Leaf and Lemon received by others and after treatment, mine looks nothing like them. Mine are considerably darker and even appear slightly dried, even 'baked'.
Finally, I hope these thoughts are helpful. And, I will continue to buy WLT, in the knowledge that you probably can't be unlucky all of the time.
I realise that my following comments really only have relevance for New Zealanders, for the record I will say this;
Firstly, this is in no way any disparagement of WLT. Everything done by the supplier is first-class. Extremely efficient and professional.
It would appear that the great majority of shipments (provided they don't exceed the 5kg threshold) are hastily shuffled on, unscrutinised by Customs, and are delivered within week to ten days after leaving the US.
It is also true that (probably) random packages, for no obvious reason are held-up for 'heat treatment' - on the pretence that they 'show signs of disease'.
How this could be determined, without actually opening the sealed package, I really don't know. This is obvious because those parcels streaming through, unscathed, have on delivery not been opened for any inspection.
Once the package is caught-up with this treatment requirement there is really no option but to pay your money and play their game. (The alternatives are either returning the consignment at your own expense or having it destroyed for free)!
My guess is that the true reason for opening random packages is to check that they don't contain anything illegal. And, if this is true you'd think that by now Customs would know that this just isn't a possibility. Also, because they have engaged an independent contractor to do the testing (of all sorts of plant and animal items) they are essentially committed to keep him in business. (Sounds cynical, I know, but I'd bet my left-one that it's true.
The only other thing that I will add is that this 'heat treatment' is done without actually opening the sealed packages. But regardless of however it is actually done, it certainly changes the appearance and condition of the leaf. I've seen Red Leaf and Lemon received by others and after treatment, mine looks nothing like them. Mine are considerably darker and even appear slightly dried, even 'baked'.
Finally, I hope these thoughts are helpful. And, I will continue to buy WLT, in the knowledge that you probably can't be unlucky all of the time.
Good glad to see you got it. the 15kgs is a Canadian law. Davidoff do not order a huge shipment. I am in Canada and 10 pounds is a little iffy. YOu must have sent the tobacco back and a little duty over the cost of tobacco with the taxes is worth it. I think anything over 10lbs is dicey. 45 dollars is not that bad.
riverstone
Well-Known Member
The NZ$45 was for heat treating.In Davidoffs case the duty is approx NZ$1000/ kilo.
He was in for a shed load of duty. We are trying to work out what that magic cut off weight is. As we are in metric weight in this country and some guys are getting in 10lb lots we have guessed that 5 kilos (11 lb) is the cut between personal and commercial use. It is not printed in the customs regulations any where and Don tries his hardest by placing all the paperwork available on the outside of the parcel.
He was in for a shed load of duty. We are trying to work out what that magic cut off weight is. As we are in metric weight in this country and some guys are getting in 10lb lots we have guessed that 5 kilos (11 lb) is the cut between personal and commercial use. It is not printed in the customs regulations any where and Don tries his hardest by placing all the paperwork available on the outside of the parcel.Kiwikeg
Active Member
Personal limits for manufacturing tobacco excise free ib nz are expected to drop this year from the current 15kg to 5kg.
Of course this article i have linked to is just the government BS rehashed by a lazy reporter.
http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/88414...llion-annually-if-tobacco-black-market-surges
Of course this article i have linked to is just the government BS rehashed by a lazy reporter.
http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/88414...llion-annually-if-tobacco-black-market-surges
Five kg of cigar leaf comes out to about 1 corona 5 days a week for a year. (During nice weather, I smoke about 5 cigars a day.)
Bob
Bob
Orson Carte
Well-Known Member
Could you possibly be a little more explicit. It would appear that you are confusing the amount that may be legally grown with the amount you may legally import.
Are you not referring to the quantity (currently 15kg) that any one individual is legally allowed to grow and possess (as dry leaf) per year?
This string relates to the importation of whole leaf tobacco, so I'm drawn to wonder if you are thinking that the 'threat' to reduce the excise-free quantity has anything to do with this.
In my understanding, I don't think anything has been publicly said about the amount that any individual is permitted to import and possess. Provided you pay the excise duty, it would appear that there is no limit to that amount. However, if you want to avoid this duty the advice is to keep below the 5kg mark for each package.
Are you not referring to the quantity (currently 15kg) that any one individual is legally allowed to grow and possess (as dry leaf) per year?
This string relates to the importation of whole leaf tobacco, so I'm drawn to wonder if you are thinking that the 'threat' to reduce the excise-free quantity has anything to do with this.
In my understanding, I don't think anything has been publicly said about the amount that any individual is permitted to import and possess. Provided you pay the excise duty, it would appear that there is no limit to that amount. However, if you want to avoid this duty the advice is to keep below the 5kg mark for each package.
Kiwikeg
Active Member
I was trying to say that the rules may be changinging soon and 5kg seems like a prudent maximum quantity to import in one shipment.
I recommend Don and WLTs services as all required documentation is supplied with the shipment.
I recommend Don and WLTs services as all required documentation is supplied with the shipment.
Kiwikeg
Active Member
Specificly the proposed change to the defination of manufactured tobacco to include drying could potentually change how Whole Leaf Tobacco classfied when duty is calculated.
None of this has happenned yet of course.
Link to proposed changes
https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&s...gghMAM&usg=AFQjCNGPMCdU5GivCV-rj86rAq8aDe5mEA
None of this has happenned yet of course.
Link to proposed changes
https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&s...gghMAM&usg=AFQjCNGPMCdU5GivCV-rj86rAq8aDe5mEA
riverstone
Well-Known Member
Interesting that only three submissions were received; all from the big tobacco companies. I never saw any mention of the commission looking for comments and I bet none of the general public did either. I am sure the Health Dept, Police. ASH and all the other do gooders would have jumped in if it had been advertised. This is direct from the big tobacco companies.
The statistics and wording is the same in parts from previous reports commissioned by BAT. A complete jack up but it is politics. so to be expected.
Reading it. It is not aimed at the importation of WLT but at the big time growers here in NZ that are growing tons for the chop chop trade. BUT the change of the unmanufactured definition will bring importing under the same umbrella. Like most "do good, feel good laws" the law abiding will get hammered and the ones it is aimed at will ignore it because they are crims and don't obey laws anyway.
The statistics and wording is the same in parts from previous reports commissioned by BAT. A complete jack up but it is politics. so to be expected.
Reading it. It is not aimed at the importation of WLT but at the big time growers here in NZ that are growing tons for the chop chop trade. BUT the change of the unmanufactured definition will bring importing under the same umbrella. Like most "do good, feel good laws" the law abiding will get hammered and the ones it is aimed at will ignore it because they are crims and don't obey laws anyway.
Orson Carte
Well-Known Member
To briefly respond to Bob's comment about 5kg of leaf providing only one corona, five days per week - that is, 260 per year; all I can say is that American maths must work differently to mine.
According to what I can glean, online about cigar weights it would appear that a 'corona' is pretty much about 10 grams. If this is correct, then 5kg of leaf (de-stemmed) should make around 500 coronas. (Almost double the number you're talking about).
Granted, if you're consuming five or so on a fine day your stash isn't going to last twelve months but for a cigarette smoker 5kgs/year (100 grams per week) is probably enough to get by on.
As a matter of interest, 100 grams of loose tobacco now costs around NZ$170 (US$114 for 3.5 oz)
My point really is: Although, naturally, don't want the amount we can grow legally, for personal use, reduced from 15kgs to 5kg, the present 15kg allows for an awful lot of smoking (300grams per week) - and at a pinch the reduction to 5kg probably wouldn't mean the end of the world.
According to what I can glean, online about cigar weights it would appear that a 'corona' is pretty much about 10 grams. If this is correct, then 5kg of leaf (de-stemmed) should make around 500 coronas. (Almost double the number you're talking about).
Granted, if you're consuming five or so on a fine day your stash isn't going to last twelve months but for a cigarette smoker 5kgs/year (100 grams per week) is probably enough to get by on.
As a matter of interest, 100 grams of loose tobacco now costs around NZ$170 (US$114 for 3.5 oz)
My point really is: Although, naturally, don't want the amount we can grow legally, for personal use, reduced from 15kgs to 5kg, the present 15kg allows for an awful lot of smoking (300grams per week) - and at a pinch the reduction to 5kg probably wouldn't mean the end of the world.
Wow! I didn't know it counted toward my final grade. I would have calculated, instead of guestimating. Hmmm. Let's see...
All the silly math aside, the arbitrary limit of 5 kg per year of whole leaf is likely to be restrictive to some folks. I agree that it's not the end of the world, but it's intrusive.
Bob
- My home-rolled coronas weigh 11.5 grams or more. (Mi corona no es su corona.)
- All of my leaf grows with a stem, most of which must be discarded in making the cigar from whole leaf. This probably represents 25% of the weight of each leaf, depending on the variety and stalk position of the leaf.
- 5 days a week = 260 days per year
- 1 deluxestogie corona 5 days a week = 2.99 kg per year
- 1/3 of the utilized weight = 1/4 of the original weight --> 2.99 x 4/3 = 3.986 kg /year, including stem wastage (we'll call it 4 kg/year for one corona daily, 5 days each week)
- oops!
- how about one corona daily for 6 days each week? --> 4 kg x 6/5 = 4.8 kg /year
All the silly math aside, the arbitrary limit of 5 kg per year of whole leaf is likely to be restrictive to some folks. I agree that it's not the end of the world, but it's intrusive.
Bob
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