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Cancer, and "Bad Luck" Mutations

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deluxestogie

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A study just published finds that most instances of human cancers (about 2/3) are caused by "bad luck" mutations.

A general discussion: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/debate-reignites-over-contributions-bad-luck-mutations-cancer

aaf9011_SupportingFile_Figure_fig3_seq3_v4_draft-1_16x9.jpg

Causes of cancers. (Replicative is "bad luck" mutations)

KEY
B: brain
HN: head and neck
Th: thyroid
NHL: non-Hodskins lymphoma
M: melanoma
E: esophagus
Lu: lungs
Lk: leukemia
Br: breast
Li: liver
K: kidney
S: stomach
CR: colo-rectal
P: pancrease
U: uterus
O: ovary
Bl: bladder
C: cervix

Cancers that are primarily caused by environmental factors (such as sun exposure, asbestos exposure, tobacco use or Human Papilloma Virus infection) appear to be head and neck, skin, esophagus, lungs, stomach and cervix. [These are, of course, the most exposed parts of the human body.] A relatively small number are due to inherited genes. All the rest are mostly random, which may be discouraging, if you're into clean living.

By this theory, the older you get, the greater your total lifetime risk of a "bad luck" mutation.

Bob
 

FmGrowit

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I knew a guy who never ate meat or dairy. He ran many miles everyday. One day while out jogging, a tree fell on him.

Another guy (an uncle of a friend of mine)...same deal...vegan, rode his bike everyday. He was purported to be eternally moody...never happy. Died of sphincter cancer.
 

greenmonster714

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I doubt I'll live long enough to have cancer take me out. A double bypass, diabetic, atrial fib, high cholesterol, swollen prostate, and boarderline copd. Screw all that sheeeet. I'm living every day to the fullest regardless of health issues. My goal is 90 or die trying. I will be a dirty old man. Well, maybe not as dirty as this old dude. I refuse to not bath and will not smoke animal crap.
eighty-year-old-iranian-amoru-haji-is-a-dirty-old-man-theflyingtortoise-001.jpg
Eighty year old Haji lives in isolation, you may well wonder why, in Dejgah Village in the Southern Iranian province of Fars.
He hates water and hasn't bathed or washed for over sixty years.
Haji believes that cleanliness brings about sickness. He may well have a point there but he's so dirt encrusted if he keeps still, it's easy to mistake him for a rock statue.
Strangely this man also has a disgust for fresh food and clean drinking water but he does drink five liters of water a day. From a rusty old oil can.
His favorite food is rotten porcupine meat. Don't go away, there's more. He likes to fill his smoking pipe with animal dung rather than tobacco.
He lives in a hole in the earth, much like a grave. He says it keeps him grounded and in touch with the essence of life.
He must be doing something right.
He's lived a long time and seems healthy, wealthy and well, wise in a way...
 

deluxestogie

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Here is a medicalexpress.com article on this research. It is written for non-experts, and contains questions and answers. It's an easy read.

medicalexpress.com said:
The body makes new cells billions of times throughout a person's lifetime. Each time a cell divides to make a new cell, its DNA is copied and, on average, makes three random mistakes. Most of these mistakes are harmless...

The scientists say their approach is akin to attempts to sort out why "typos" occur when typing a 20-volume book: being tired while typing, which represents environmental exposures; a stuck or missing key in the keyboard, which represent inherited factors; and other typographical errors that randomly occur, which represent DNA copying errors."You can reduce your chance of typographical errors by making sure you're not drowsy while typing and that your keyboard isn't missing some keys," says Vogelstein. "But typos will still occur because no one can type perfectly. Similarly, mutations will occur, no matter what your environment is, but you can take steps to minimize those mutations by limiting your exposure to hazardous substances and unhealthy lifestyles."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-03-cancer-mutations-due-random-dna.html
Bob
 

Jitterbugdude

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I'll read the article in a bit but I think the "genetic mutation" idea has ran it's course. Researchers have been spinning their wheels for too many decades with that idea and gotten nowhere. Most likely, faulty cell respiration is the cause of cancer.
The problem is that the cancer research machine is so incredibly big that even if the actual cause for cancer was found today it would probably take decades for medical society to put the brakes on current research and shift gears.
 

deluxestogie

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My apologies, JBD. That was a bit rude of me.

Over the past 20 years, genomic science has made colossal breakthroughs, and continues to do so as an exponentially increasing rate. Today, it is possible not only to sequence the genome of a person, but to sequence individual tissues and cells. Mutations and epigenetic markers within malignant cells can be directly compared to the genome of the specific patient involved. This applies to the nuclear genome and separately to the mitochondrial genome. Mitochondrial (respiratory) function within the cell has been teased apart in extraordinary detail.

That's the actual state of genomics. No wheel spinning.

The greatest risk of new discoveries that may have a therapeutic value is that they are patented and commercialized before adequate trials. Cancer research is conducted by countless, individual investigators who are competing with other labs for research grants and claim of first discovery. It's a competitive market (free market) of revelations.

Bob
 

DistillingJim

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I remember at university being told that your body creates potentially cancerous cells every day but that your body destroys them before they can become a real threat. To actually get cancer, your body needs to fail something like 7 or 8 different processes. External factors simply mean that you introduce more mutated cells, increasing the likelihood that one of them eventually gets through your natural defenses.
 

Jitterbugdude

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My apologies, JBD. That was a bit rude of me.

Over the past 20 years, genomic science has made colossal breakthroughs, and continues to do so as an exponentially increasing rate. Today, it is possible not only to sequence the genome of a person, but to sequence individual tissues and cells. Mutations and epigenetic markers within malignant cells can be directly compared to the genome of the specific patient involved. This applies to the nuclear genome and separately to the mitochondrial genome. Mitochondrial (respiratory) function within the cell has been teased apart in extraordinary detail.


That's the actual state of genomics. No wheel spinning.

The greatest risk of new discoveries that may have a therapeutic value is that they are patented and commercialized before adequate trials. Cancer research is conducted by countless, individual investigators who are competing with other labs for research grants and claim of first discovery. It's a competitive market (free market) of revelations.

Bob

Bob, no apologies needed. I got a good laugh at the "no cigar" comment...Really
But.. the issue I have with the genetic link is that there have been colossal breakthroughs but none have ever panned out showing the link with cancer and genetics. For instance, there have been over 700 targeted gene therapies developed due to various genome projects and not a single therapy works. For the past 20 years cancer rates have been increasing ( but cancer deaths remain the same). If there was a genetic link then there must be something in our food or environment that is causing this. If so, why are not animals in the wild seeing the same constant increase? I believe (along with many researchers) that faulty cell respiration is the cause.

This faulty cell respiration is probably due to the bad diet advice that American Medicine gives us such as eating low fat and increasing complex carbs. Aerobic fermentation (increased glucose with lactic acid production in the presence of 02) is one of the big defining characteristics of tumor formation. Eating low fat/high carb constantly elevates glucose levels. With elevated glucose the body shuts down apoptosis (another hallmark of cancer cells). Elevated glucose also turns off autophagy (all 3 forms). So if your body is never allowed to clear the cellular debris all kinds of diseases will arise.

Cancer cells can easily be killed by depriving them of their energy. There are several published studies showing complete reversal of inoperable brain tumors with a diet that achieves a 1:1 ratio of ketones to blood glucose.

The other issue I have with cancer research is the heavy use of Xenografts. Sorry, but you just can't use a Xenograft and relate the results to humans. Most 1st year biochemistry students probably know that.

We could probably argue this for decades but why bother? The medical society already has been.
 

Smokin Harley

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my theory on not just cancer but most of these big money diseases is this. Doctors have gone from being the health care maintainers and become victims and predators that big pharma and big money cultivates them into. The pharmaceutical companies have put so much money into the corporate doctors pockets they see nothing but dollar signs and choose to not see healthy individuals . By progression they prescribe one band-aid drug over the next (either masking drugs or side effect drugs)and it snowball effects the disease to become something so complex the actual root disease is no longer apparent. The family of the victim naturally stops at nothing financially to seek a cure .
I watched my mother -in -law go through sudden stage 4 ovarian cancer chemotherapy for 3 yrs . Basically a controlled poison pumped through her veins each month . My wife took the oncologist aside to discuss medical marijuana and the doctor refused to speak about it. Just proves the almighty dollar outweighs an actual cure or at least relief in the eyes of physicians.
How else do you account for our countrys television being so saturated with pharmaceutical ads that have endless side effects as bad or worse than the illness but then end with "Ask your doctor about _________________ " ... simple Greed ,money.
 

deluxestogie

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I can't argue about US healthcare being primarily a business. It's been that way for hundreds of years. (And until the last 80 years or so, there were practically no medical cures for anything.) But providers need to try their best to have happy customers. Sometimes they fail at that, even with the best intentions and business sense.

Conspiracy theories abound. I put more credence in the general body of published research, than in outliers. If you want to truly wow yourself, then explore the recent discoveries of the effects of diet on the human microbiome, and consequently the human microbiome's effect on human physiology. It is true that I am mostly other creatures. The body that I consider to be me is vastly outnumbered by all the living organisms that inhabit me--inside and out. And the DNA of those billions of fellow travelers impacts me directly and indirectly.

Bob
 

Jitterbugdude

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. My wife took the oncologist aside to discuss medical marijuana and the doctor refused to speak about it.

The problem in this country is that it is so incredibly easy to sue someone. If the doctor had prescribed medical marijuana and something happened to your mom-in-law, anything at all you could sue the doctor for using a non AMA approved protocol for cancer treatment. Doctors have it rough, dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. The ways juries are today they'd award you a hefty sum regardless of whether you actually deserved it or not.
 

Smokin Harley

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I get that. but at the point my MIL was (beginning her 3rd round) the writing was already on the wall , she just needed some relief of the pain . I mean the least the doctor could have possibly said was "I'm not condoning it ,but you can try it" . I think she trusted her doctor way too much during the whole thing.
 
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