when to take off the lid?

[wazzappenning]

do i leave the lid on my propagator as long as possible? (says greenhouse on the packaging so????) now that i have green sprouts do they need a sunnier less humid environment?

 

[deluxestogie]

i have green sprouts do they need a sunnier less humid environment?

Yes.

Bob

 

[wazzappenning]

less water with the lid on, or take the lid off and water as usual?

 

[CoralReefs]

First, I am not as experienced at growing tobacco as some other plants. I have only gone through a couple of grow cycles. So consider my thoughts as very general horticultural advice.
That said: What I do (with just about all plants I grow with a few exceptions) is take the lid off shortly after most have germinated, keep the soil fairly moist (I tray water- and use a sprayer if I need to get moisture to the surface fast), and make sure they get lots of light so they do not get leggy. (Light also discourages the growth of micro-fungus to an extent, at least supposedly). If you leave the lid on too long the seedlings can become acclimated to a very humid environment. When you attempt to plant them in soil, they can experience shock due to the rapid drop in humidity (unless of course you "harden them off" which just means that you slowly decrease the humidity to your ambient humidity over a period of a week or so. Many propagation chambers have vents for this purpose).
I have not experienced this with tobacco, but with most other plants, the other concern with keeping them in a propagation chamber for too long is stagnant air. When the inside of the chamber is warm, humid, and not moving, you have a breeding ground for micro fungus. Once you get a fungus problem they can be hard to get under control.

So, moral of the story, I would not leave the lid on too too long. You have some wiggle room, I tend to slack off for a week or two after germination and not remove my lids. Any longer than that I start to worry about fungus. The point of the humidity domes is just to make sure moisture gets to the seeds and to prevent the soil surface from drying out. That's it.

 

[wazzappenning]

thanks, makes sense. ill wait till someone else chimes in as tobacco may be slightly different. yes, i know i already had mold, but it seems to have gone. maybe cause i was giving it more light. also, edmonton is far from being a tropical jungle, so environmental shock i could definitely see.

i had tried tomatoes from seed a few years back. it was not a success. i didnt use a propagator, and just ended up buying seedlings next time. still, i was picking green tomatoes past the point that things should all have been out of the garden.

 

[CoralReefs]

"thanks, makes sense."
No problem, hope that helps

"ill wait till someone else chimes in as tobacco may be slightly different."
Wise idea. As I said, I still consider myself a noob when it comes to tobacco. There are always exceptions in the plant kingdom!

 

[Daniel]

I have found tobacco likes the soil a little drier than nearly anything else I have grown. if the soil stays to wet the sprout seems to just set there and do nothing. if it is a bit wetter than that it might start turning yellow.
I start seed in very wet soil but then want to get it to just damp soil as soon as it starts. Still I get some of that stop and go growth because letting it get dry will also kill it. Once it has grown a bit the moisture level of the soil can vary a bit more but that first couple of weeks is important. Any sign of mold or mildew is a sure sign the tobacco is not growing.

 

[wazzappenning]

ive propped the lid up to gradually let the humidity out, i wont expose it to direct sunlight until i have gotten it used to a drier atmosphere. but yeah, seems like they grew in no time and now i see very little change. i dont believe i have any mold left so i hope its just the moisture issue.

 

[Pmiller]

This explains what happened to my tobacco last year. Wish I'd have found this forum sooner!

 

[wazzappenning]

when i had the lid propped up, i had noticed the edges were getting dry. i would give it a light spray and do a little extra on the edges. then yesterday i took the lid off all together. this morning i noticed the seedlings look droopy and the dirt quite dry. i gave it a good soaking with the spray bottle. question... do i abandon the spray bottle at this stage and use a different method of watering???

 

[deluxestogie]

Once the seeds germinate, remove the lid and water from the bottom.

Bob

 

[CoralReefs]

Once the seeds germinate, remove the lid and water from the bottom.

Bob

Agreed, tray watering is the way to go. Not sure if you are using the sprayer based on my advice or not (if you are, I apologize for not being a little more clear on what I meant) but when I mentioned using it, what I meant was if the surface gets dry and you need to get the soil surface re-hydrated fast(IE seedlings are wilting), it is better to use a sprayer instead of top watering- that is, the sprayer is for emergencies (personally, if I see seedlings wilting, I add water to the tray immediately and then gently spray a few pumps of water from a sprayer onto the surface and the seedlings themselves to help hydrate them more quickly, honestly, its probably not even nessasary- adding a good amount of water to the tray should hydrate the plug fairly quickly but I am paranoid). What I do with seedlings is add enough water for the soil plugs to wick the water up but not enough for them to become water logged. Somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of the way up should do it- check how much water is left after this and how wet the surface of the plugs get to determine whether you need to add more or less. I then let the tray dry out between waterings (the tray, not the plugs). Then, I wait a few days before watering again- I want the soil to lose some moisture before I water again, with seedlings dont let them lose too much. (because soil texture is not the same from one soil mix to the next- one recommendation does not fit all here). The idea here is twofold (as I understand it):
1) By allowing some of the water to evaporate out, you allow air to penetrate the soil and reach the root system
2) By allowing some of the water to evaporate out, you also reduce the opportunity for fungus to colonize and wreak havoc.
If you feel more comfortable with a wetter environment but are concerned about fungus, adding some beneficial microfungus like trichoderma and mycorrhiza might (key word might) help control fungus and damping off (not sure if tobacco hosts mycorrhiza or not). You can get bacterial supplements with these additives from specialty gardening shops and hydroponics stores or online.

 

[CoralReefs]

Oh, I forgot to mention. A trick I use is to leave one of the cells empty. That way, you can use it to add water to the bottom tray without lifting up the cell packs and you can also peek inside of it to monitor the waterlevel in the tray as the plugs themselves see it.

 

[wazzappenning]

thanks, yeah i thought bottom watering meant put some in the tray and let it soak up. it got fairly wet 3 days ago. then i just left it and exposed it to full sun (just in case too much water) now i see what appears to be green fungus? greenish something anyways. hope i dont screw up 100 plants.

 

[CoralReefs]

thanks, yeah i thought bottom watering meant put some in the tray and let it soak up. it got fairly wet 3 days ago. then i just left it and exposed it to full sun (just in case too much water) now i see what appears to be green fungus? greenish something anyways. hope i dont screw up 100 plants.

Does it look furry? If so that's probably fungus (mold likely)- I would carefully scoop out what I can and hit it (the seedlings and soil) with some sulfur based fungicide (I tend to be generous with it unless the seedlings are really small). If you do, probably not a good idea to put them back in the sun until the fungicide dries so as not to burn the leaves. A friend of mine has a degree in horticulture, he told me with young seedlings make a solution of about a tablespoon of milk to 1 gallon of water and use that. Evidently milk has anti-fungal properties. Personally, I have never had good luck with the milk trick. The sulfur works pretty well for me if I catch fungus early.
Otherwise, my guess would be with the combination of light and moisture (and how quickly it sounds like it popped up)- algae. If that is the case it should not be a problem. Algae pops up pretty quick, but I have never heard of it hurting plants- maybe before seeds germinate I do not know. I have been told algae can attract fungus gnats though.

Can you post a picture?

 

[Daniel]

I have seen a lot of people mentioning watering with a spray bottle. The big problem I see with a spray bottle is that the surface looks wet when the soil around the roots where it counts is not. A:so very few people will stand there and spray a quart of water. I use 1020 trays. These are the standard trays you woudl find plants in at the home improvement store. When I water I pour about a quart maybe more of water in that tray and let the soil soak it up. I then leave it until the surface starts to dry out. We will also actually use a moisture meter. Watering from the bottom also tends to get every cell evenly moist. One imprtant trick to watering from the bottom is the right soil. I use garden soil. NOT POTTING MIX. garden soil. Others have said good things about vermiculite and peat moss. What you want is a soil that wicks up the correct amount of moisture. the other answer to not getting them to wet is to set them in a tub. let them soak up water. then place them where they can drain. I work in my house so this is not an option for me.

Getting the soil jsut right is probably one of the hardest things about starting tobacco I have found. get it right and the plants will grow.

 

[deluxestogie]

What I have started doing this season for the first time is to use doubled 1020 trays. The cell inserts are placed into a 1020 tray with drainage holes. Then, this is placed into a 1020 tray without holes. I add about 1 to 1-1/2 quarts of water by lifting up one of the cell insert sections (one which has been carefully separated from the insert sheet). This is dispersed, while draining into the lower tray. (The trays have to be level in order to get an even distribution.) The standing water in the lower tray slowly evaporates into the upper tray, and into the soil of the inserts. This supply gives me a week or more between waterings. I wait for some of the cells to show distinct drying, before watering again. If necessary, I rotate the tray 180º, to equalize the distribution of water.

One difficulty I have experienced with this approach is that I used 4 different soil mixes in different cells. These absorb water differently. It has not proven to be a major problem, but it would have been simpler with a single mix.

Bob

 

[wazzappenning]

thanks for the help. yeah maybe algae, it almost looks like minerals from the city water. these accumulate in my kettle too and form flakes that i have to rinse out bi-weekly. here are some pics. i swear it looked green yesterday, now yellowish. you can see it seems to be showing up mostly at the edges and high points. the toothpick is almost pointing straight at one of the bigger spots (about 1 oclock of it) not the round thing beside it, that came with the potting mix. and i did start these with potting soil.

 

[CoralReefs]

Yeah, I don't see anything that screams mold at me. I see a few things that scream osmocote pellets but not mold.

 

[wazzappenning]

ok this is not about the lid, but about rotating the pan. ive noticed that my seedlings on the right are doing far better. maybe a slight slant directing water one way more than the other, or one side getting more sun exposure. some of the seedlings are limp and lying flat (aiming in the direction of the sun). i propped a couple up, but not sure they're gonna make it. so i decided to flip the whole thing 180 and see if those lying down will follow the sun and start looking lively. i know plants dont like being moved, so will this cause issues?