Buy Tobacco Leaf Online | Whole Leaf Tobacco

Colour-Curing Blues

Status
Not open for further replies.

Orson Carte

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Messages
246
Points
28
Location
New Zealand
Well, greens, actually.
Down here, in parts of New Zealand we've had one helluva difficult growing season.
After suffering many setbacks due to the weather I eventually got my the crop harvested and hanging to colour cure.
I'm only a second year newbie so I haven't got a lot to fall back on. However, I do know that my whole growing and curing schedule is at least six weeks behind where I was in my first year.
My difficulty now is that, despite being hung in a well-ventilated barn many of the hands have a problem with both mold and stem drying. The leaves were very big this year and the main stems very heavy.
As far as the mold goes I've been both trimming off the worst parts of the leaf (mainly at the tips) and wiping obvious spots with a weak vinegar solution.
I'm really not sure of the best plan for those leaves with a greenish tinge or small spots of green on them. I've set the worst ones aside to hang for a little longer but I have the feeling that they will probably remain a little greenish no matter how long they hang.
My question mainly is (I think) ; is a leaf with a green tinge (or smallish spots) still able to be processed to be useable and is fermentation likely to make the cure more complete?
(I seem to recall fermenting a few similar leaves last year and, as far as I remember they were eventually indistinguishable from those that went into the fermenter more completely coloured.)
 

ChinaVoodoo

Moderator
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
7,163
Points
113
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
Good luck with it all.

I had a batch of Maryland two years ago which was too ripe when picked, sat too long before hanging, and started to mold on the sections of leaf which were either damaged, or already drying out. I wiped the leaves with alcohol and discarded particularly bad sections. The smoke isn't bad. I like the taste and sweetness, but it doesn't hold water normally. It is crumbly up until it's about 18% water content, so there's a tightrope walk of keeping it hydrated without risking mold. When I make Cavendish out of it it gets a bit softer, but not much. I gotta say though, that despite the hydration and burning problems, it aged faster, relative to other varieties that year.
 

BigBonner

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
1,671
Points
63
Location
Kentucky
Did you tie the hands as green leaf or after color cure ?

They would have to be cured first before hand tying .
If you have a lot of moisture at night , make sure to close up all doors to keep night time moisture out . After the leaves are dry and there is color cured green , some types of tobacco will cure on out and loose the green after more time and moisture bringing tobacco in and out of case . But some cigar varieties that get sunburned will never loose the green spots .
 

Orson Carte

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Messages
246
Points
28
Location
New Zealand
Thanks for the info, guys.
I tied the hands straight after picking - while it was still green.
As a matter of interest I tied the rather large leaves (many up to three feet long and 18 inches wide) in bundles of four or five. I used a tool that we call an 'elastrator' (used for tailing lambs) which stretches a rubber o-ring with a 1/4 hole large enough to slip over something almost two inches in diameter. This ring holds tight even as the stem shrinks. However, the stalks of the leaves were that large that I could only stretch over four or five of them for the bunch - and even then I had to shave them a little before banding.
Please tell me if I've made a major error here.
This method worked very well for me last year and I think the green problems and the mold are largely due to this year's weather - during the hanging time it has been quite damp outside and windless. I've had it hanging in a type of barn, with both ends open through which, when there is a breeze, it can blow straight through.
 

SmokesAhoy

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
2,686
Points
0
Location
VT
If it cures with a bit of green here and there you don't really notice it after kilning, I've had some experience with that.

If mold is your problem this year your leaves are too close together. I use a needle made from a metal hanger and string leaves up through the base of the stem on 20lb test fishing line, it allows me to move them further apart easily if they aren't drying fast enough. Although that rubber band thing is probably much faster if you can do 5 at a time you should probably not use it unless you can color cure and dry faster.
 

Charly

Moderator
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
2,209
Points
113
Location
France
I am newby too (I am beginning my second year's crop), but if you have mold, than you have to reduce humidity.
As the other members already said : it is not recommanded to tie leaves together before they are color cured, it increase mold risk.

To reduce humidity, you could add some heat and/or ventilation and you should separate your hands and put more space between your leaves on the wires.

I wish you good luck with your color curing.
 

BigBonner

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
1,671
Points
63
Location
Kentucky
There is the problem . Green leaves tied together . They will start rotting pretty quick and smell like barn yard manure .
Cut the ends off and scatter those leaves to where they can get some air .

If it was Burley or Maryland you can cut the whole stalk and hang .
 

Orson Carte

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Messages
246
Points
28
Location
New Zealand
I do understand what you are saying but really there is/was no sign of anything rotting.
Initially, hanging bunched like that they dried off as I had hoped and more than half of the crop has colour cured pretty well.
Even with those greenish leaves that I have temporarily set aside the green is more a browny weak green rather than anything that looks rotten. I do understand, however, that even tied in a small bunch drying will be much slower.
As far as the mold goes (dark speckly stuff, in the main, with a bit of white furry stuff on the stem), it appears mostly towards the tips of the leaves and seems to almost be worst where the cure is the 'darkest'.
I appreciate that hanging the leaves separately on wires, etc undoubtedly produces much better specimens but I really thought I was doing the right thing by picking and then hanging green, in small bunches, draped over narrow poles. I had thought, from various things I had seen and heard about, apart from hanging the whole cut plant, this was the 'traditional' method of air curing in a ventilated barn.
I have also developed the idea (though this my theory, and may be wrong) that the reason why tobacco was traditionally grown in the areas where it was grown was not so much it being the perfect climate for growth but rather the climate best suited for air-drying. That is, the perfect humidity.
This is part of my challenge, in that my climate is reasonably well-suited for growth but the humidity is quite high throughout year.
So, have I got this right? Are you saying that you hang the leaves separately and when they are dry you might tie them into hands? If you've got each leaf hanging individually, what's the point of then bunching them, apart from making them easier to handle if they were to be shipped?
 

SmokesAhoy

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
2,686
Points
0
Location
VT
All the bunching happens after brown and stem had dried. After humidifying again they were graded and made pretty for auction. Your way, tight while green actually seems like a hybrid of American and south American processes. They make ropes of green tightly twisted leaf but the mold won't happen if it is twisted tight and as it cures is retwisted periodically to tighten the rope as it shrinks from giving up moisture. If you used several bands after tightly wrapping them with burlap, canvas or something like that you bring in the European karrote method. The bands would continuously hold pressure so it doesn't get soft spots and mold.

If you did do this I'd love to hear how it turns out, would require a ton of bands tho.
 

Orson Carte

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Messages
246
Points
28
Location
New Zealand
Hell, don't for one moment think I actually know what I'm doing. I really only banded them (in bunches of, usually four leaves - which then spread out a little, two hanging on each side of the horizontal pole) because I thought that this was roughly how it was done.
I'm not saying that the 'method' was great, or anything - it just seemed a lot more appealing than hanging around 4000 leaves on wires,hooks,strings,etc.
The rubber rings are pretty economical and easy to use. But, as I said, I don't claim any expertise, hence my posting.
Here's the weapon, if anyone's interested - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Elastrator-Pliers-Rubber-Ring-Applicator-amp-100-Pcs-Rings-/130589011384
 

SmokesAhoy

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
2,686
Points
0
Location
VT
A bunch of 4 separated to a bunch of 2 should work. I was picturing them all curling up into one thick bundle. The guys at the top that suggested additional airflow probably will fix it then. Even a fan blowing back and forth in the room might do it. I dunno, hope you get it figured out though, buying tobacco in nz seems rough.

Maybe spend your winter building a flue cure box? Or addressing humidity issues in the current room.
Best of luck!
 

riverstone

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Messages
130
Points
18
Location
Hikutaia. NI. New Zealand
I'm in the same predicament as Orson. Our weather has been very unusual this year to say the least. Instead of our usual dry February and March we had the tail end of two cyclones pass through.
My rain gauge showed we had just over 900mm (36in) of rain in 8 weeks. The weather was still warm but wet wet wet. I too suffered with mold but probably not as many leaves as Orson. I watched one of Larrys videos on you tube using rubber bands to bunch the leaves as he picked his Virginia crop, followed suite and then I had to strip them all apart after colour curing, wipe the mould off, cut the stems back and then finish them off in the chamber to dry the leaf and stem. I am going to cut the Yellow Twist Bud plants and hang them but the Catterton is not ripening at all and I have no room to hang all the complete stems. I might have to do a slow flue cure on them and see how it turns out. I have already had two frosts this week so I don't want to wait much longer. The upside is my seed is safely gathered and our duck hunting season starts tomorrow :D.
 

riverstone

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Messages
130
Points
18
Location
Hikutaia. NI. New Zealand
As I stated above; I have a heap of leaf that required curing and the weather is just not playing ball. Has anyone tried to flue cure Maryland leaf? I have 10 plants that I have had to strip leaf from and they are just hanging and not changing colour. These plants are Catterton and have been in since November, topped, de-suckered and stared at continually. I am tempted to give them a go at flue curing as they will only hang and rot. These are supposed to be 60-65 days to mature and easy air cure. They are not on my list for 17-18 season.
 

riverstone

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Messages
130
Points
18
Location
Hikutaia. NI. New Zealand
I take it from the lack of answers to my question that nobody has tried to flue cure Maryland or is just not interested. I went ahead and cured a fridge full and loaded up this morning for the second load. How did it turn out? you ask ???????????????????
 

ChinaVoodoo

Moderator
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
7,163
Points
113
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
I take it from the lack of answers to my question that nobody has tried to flue cure Maryland or is just not interested. I went ahead and cured a fridge full and loaded up this morning for the second load. How did it turn out? you ask ???????????????????

Hey Riverstone, I hear you flue cured some Maryland. I didn't know people did that. How did it turn out? Fantastic I hope!
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
23,929
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
Hey, China. Did you know that riverstone flue-cured some Maryland? I wonder how it turned out. Either it's at least adequate for smoking purposes, or he's an incurable optimist.

Bob
 

ChinaVoodoo

Moderator
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
7,163
Points
113
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
Haha. I'm actually really curious. I've only grown Maryland once. My air cured Maryland tastes more like flue cured tobacco than my air cured flue cured does. I wouldn't be surprised if it was really good.
 

Charly

Moderator
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
2,209
Points
113
Location
France
I take it from the lack of answers to my question that nobody has tried to flue cure Maryland or is just not interested. I went ahead and cured a fridge full and loaded up this morning for the second load. How did it turn out? you ask ???????????????????

I am !! I am !!! I am very interested !!!!
Did you already tried it ?
I am growing some MD 609, if flue curing works, I might try to sun cure some of it :)
 

riverstone

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Messages
130
Points
18
Location
Hikutaia. NI. New Zealand
Thanks for asking. It looks good; a nice copper colour. It smells divine but as I don't smoke I will have to wait for my wife's verdict on how it tastes. There is only two flavours of tobacco for her.
How does that taste? "Alright" or "Crap" is the answers I get. I aim for the former.
The second lot is in the curing chamber (old fridge) now and apart from a few plants of YTB hanging I am finished for the year, a month late, and will dig the plot and start manuring for next year.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top