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401 Cherry Red Free - Using 'old' seed

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Tom_in_TN

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Wanted to start some Cherry Red Free seeds after reading an old post about this variety on another forum. Here is an excerpt from the post:
grokfish - Post subject: A dang fine variety Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:47
Just enjoyed some fermented and aged tobacco from my crop last year and thought it was one of the finest smokes I have had! It was a straight up (no mix) of 'cherry red free'... Smooth, tasted fantastic with a hint of sweetness, no harshness at the back of the throat, and a pleasant little nic kick. Interesting stuff - That's all! - Grok

Whoo-hooo!!! This sounded like a fantastic leaf to smoke, so I choose "401 Cherry Red Free" for my FREE seed pick. FmGrowit informed me that the last time he sent out a batch they did not germinate for the grower, but he would send them out anyway. From all the info I read about how to germinate old seed, I developed a plan to soak a few seeds in a weak saltpeter and Gibberellic Acid 3 solution. Recipe: 1/4 teaspoon of saltpeter in a quart of water and 1/4 tsp. of 500 PPM, GA-3 (a very weak solution). Once the seed arrived I started about 1/2 to germinate in a ziplock baggie on a paper towel soaked with a tablespoon of the 'germinating juice' and placed them on a heat pad that kept the seed at 80-85 degrees during the night. The remaining seeds were put in the freezer as 'back-up' seeds. Then about mid-morning when outside temps began to rise to 70 degrees the baggie were placed in shaded sunlight, but with no extra heating. After 60 hours, 2 or 3 seeds showed faint signs of life. After 72 hours, a few more seeds showed signs of life and 12 had 'white tips' busting out. Since those 12 seeds appeared to be sprouting, I 'planted' them in potting soil. None of the remaining seeds ever showed any further signs of life.

Once in the soil and a couple of days of waiting and checking every few hours for some 'green' to show, they slowly starting to perk-up and sprout. So far, 10 have sprouted. The 'backup batch' are now 'soaking' in a baggie and hopefully there will be at least another 10 or so to sprout.401 Cherry Red Free 04-04_b.jpg401 Cherry Red Free 04-04_c.jpg
To see what the Cherry Red Free plants might look like when nearing maturity here is an image from
The Nicotiana Project's Flue Cured section in Flue Cured Varieties:
http://nicotianaproject.net/flue_cured.htm


401 Cherry Red - NicProject.jpg
 

SmokesAhoy

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That sounds wonderful. Glad you got them to sprout!

Sounds like a great variety for minimalist growers that don't want to deal with growing mixes
 

FmGrowit

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Nice work, do you want to try some 130 year old seed next?

Hey Tom_in_TN...are you any relation to Lonnie_in_TN? Being that you both have the same last name, I figured there might be a chance. Very unusual last name "in_TN" :)

Does anyone have Lonnie's address? I'm going to have to write him a letter and tell him to get his paranoid ass over here. Never hurts to have another character on the boards.
 

deluxestogie

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Nice work, Tom. Cherry Red is listed as a flue-cure variety, but looking at the photo, it seems to resemble a Spanish type. It should be interesting.

Randy,
Good idea about the citric acid and H2O2. I have some citric acid already. I'll pick up some H2O2 and give it one last go with the 60 year old Big White Burley KY16. I'm out of seed for the Sweet Oronoko. What recipe do you use?

Bob
 

deluxestogie

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Randy,
On reading that study, the goal seemed to be reducing the impermeability of the Eastern Red Cedar seed coat, to allow it to imbibe water. That doesn't seem to be a problem with the old tobacco seed. (The tobacco seed coat is only a few cells thick.) All of the old seed I've started seems to imbibe well, and swell. It's just that the embryo never seems to get going.

Bob
 

Jitterbugdude

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Yeah I know, I had seen other references to citric acid and H202 but couldn't find any and thought that might be a good start. I can't remember where I read about the H202 but it was probably anecdotal reporting. Have you tried the method recommended by JL Hudson? as they say..."use 2,3,5-triphenyltetrazolium chloride to test for hydrogenase enzyme activity, which quickly indicates whether there is a living embryo in the seed".
 

Tom_in_TN

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Nice work, do you want to try some 130 year old seed next?

Hey Tom_in_TN...are you any relation to Lonnie_in_TN? Being that you both have the same last name, I figured there might be a chance. Very unusual last name "in_TN" :)

Does anyone have Lonnie's address? I'm going to have to write him a letter and tell him to get his paranoid ass over here. Never hurts to have another character on the boards.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to send me a few really old seed and see if I have any sort of 'touch' doing this kind of thing. I learned a lot of what I know from Bob(Deluxe) so if you sent that variety to him it probably wouldn't work out so well. If they are Copan TI 698 then I sure would love to try that variety.

I don't know Lonnie but from reading through his old posts on that other forum, I would sure love to meet him. And, for sure try to get him to join up and start posting here. That would be great.
 

Tom_in_TN

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Nice work, Tom. Cherry Red is listed as a flue-cure variety, but looking at the photo, it seems to resemble a Spanish type. It should be interesting. Bob
Thanks, Bob. I will be sure to get us a good batch of seeds off this variety with some good germinating results. Like the seeds you saved and sent out, man put a little water and warm temps on those little puppies and they practically sprout before you can get the seed trays ready.
 

deluxestogie

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Does anyone have any idea what the "Free" means in the variety name? ARS-GRIN has no narrative, lineage or other comment about it. Just that it was acquired in 1961, which would suggest that "Free" is not talking about nicotine.

Bob
 

Tom_in_TN

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Does anyone have any idea what the "Free" means in the variety name? Bob

No firm idea on what "Free" means, but I suspect it has something to do with a grower who 'improved' this variety. Could have been a cross to deal with some disease, or other weakness shown by the parent. Hmmmmm...could require some serious digging around. Wish I had time to do that but I've just been assigned another job that will up take most of my time for a few days.

Tom TN
 

Jitterbugdude

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It relates to the fact that when cured ,some tobaccos turn a lemon color, some a brown and some a cherry red. Researches determined that tobacco that turns cherry red during curing has a high nicotine to nornicotine conversion. Tobacco companies do not like that so they "forbid" their contract growers from growing it. Someone along the way must a have bred a tobacco to have a low conversion rate.



Here is a link: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf00032a030
 
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Daniel

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Tom, very nice start. Low germination rate but it sounds like you got a fantastic speed out of it.
I woudl love to see at least one plant, of course the best one, grown specifically to produce seed. In my case I feed and shelter the heck out of a seed plant. I have no interest in the tobacco it will produce. the plant is grown specifically to produce a huge healthy head of seed pods.

I checked on Lonnie's profile a couple of weeks ago at HTGT and he has not even been there in nearly a year. Not sure what happened. I know things where getting rough on him where his father was concerned. He may simply have more important things to do now that he has his lifetimes supply of tobacco. I miss him though.
 

Tom_in_TN

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It relates to the fact that when cured ,some tobaccos turn a lemon color, some a brown and some a cherry red. Researches determined that tobacco that turns cherry red during curing has a high nicotine to nornicotine conversion. Tobacco companies do not like that so they "forbid" their contract growers from growing it. Someone along the way must a have bred a tobacco to have a low conversion rate.

Randy, thanks for that info. Correct me if I am being dense here, but could Grok's comment that his CRF leaf did not cure cherry red mean precisely what you surmise, Someone along the way must a have bred a tobacco to have a low conversion rate?
 

Tom_in_TN

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I would love to see at least one plant, of course the best one, grown specifically to produce seed. In my case I feed and shelter the heck out of a seed plant. I have no interest in the tobacco it will produce. the plant is grown specifically to produce a huge healthy head of seed pods.
I like the way you think, Daniel. That is exactly what I plan to do with CRF and several other varieties. I have a small (about 10'x25') planting bed large enough to grow a bunch. It was composted over a 5 year period and deeply dug to mix in all the reddish clay dirt with the compost each year. For the past 4 years it grew year 1) tomato, 2) cucumber 3) potato 4) carrot and some wild asparagus took root too. No fert needed and it holds moisture really well. I left a lot of carrots in the dirt this past winter. As I was turning the 'chunks' of dirt yesterday it appeared to have turned into a large worm farm and they have been gorging themselves on rotten carrots and other goodies. The dirt has firmed up and is honeycombed with worm tunnels. I expect this little plot to grow some good baccy (and seed for us). Perhaps 2 each of a few selected varieties. There should be lots of seed for next season.
2036_b.jpg
I checked on Lonnie's profile a couple of weeks ago at HTGT and he has not even been there in nearly a year. Not sure what happened. I know things where getting rough on him where his father was concerned. He may simply have more important things to do now that he has his lifetimes supply of tobacco. I miss him though.
I too saw that it has been almost a year since he has posted there. Now that Don has revealed Lonnie's last name to me, I may just do a bit of research to determine where his farm(s) are located, although I think it better to have a long-time acquaintance get in touch with him and let him know his input on the forum is wanted.
 
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