Photo of my tobacco - OldDinosaur

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Bob:

I kind of thought that time was the answer. You have just confirmed that. I once over-fertilized tomatoes and got lots of luxurious greenery, but they didn't bloom until September. A little late for any fruit. I am attaching another one of my fuzzy photos showing two Izmir's, one behind the other that illustrate the tall skinny one with smaller leaves (behind) vs. the short stubby one (front) with the long large leaves. I have put my four-foot measuring stick in the frame to give scale. The taller plant has 8 - 10" leaves & is about 6' tall. The shorter plant has 16 - 17" leaves & is barely over 4' tall. Go figure! This photo is being obscured somewhat by Burley 9 on the left and Ostrolist 6 on the right. I have cropped those two out of the photo as much as I can. Both Burley and Ostrolist are in the 6 to 7' range & make some really large horse-blanket leaves that take up a lot of space. Maybe when Ismir is ready for it, they will make my kiln smell nice.



Thanks for your info!

Wes H.

 

[deluxestogie]

This photo shows the distinctive features of Izmir Ozbas:

1. recurved leaf margin
2. perfectly smooth and straight stalk descenders on the auricles, positioned at ~90º to one another below each leaf.

From my 2011 season.

No other variety that I've grown shows both these features, and Izmir Ozbas always does.

Bob

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Bob:

Yep, they look like that in spite of the size difference between individuals. I guess variability is the essence of sexual reproduction.

In re: Oriental tobaccos, I've been looking at the "Sun Curing" threads & am trying to figure out what is going on w/ sun curing. Any recommendations on reading material? Is Ismir a candidate for whole stalk curing? Please advise.

New photo from today's pickings attached. 68 leaves "Ternopolskii 14" (left) 115 leaves "Harrow Velvet" (right).



Thanks for your help.

Wes H.

 

[deluxestogie]

I guess variability is the essence of sexual reproduction.

In re: Oriental tobaccos, I've been looking at the "Sun Curing" threads & am trying to figure out what is going on w/ sun curing. Any recommendations on reading material? Is Ismir a candidate for whole stalk curing?

Genetic uniformity is the essence of a pure strain tobacco variety. Their heterozygosity should be close to zero. This is not supposed to be open-pollinated seed.

With small Orientals, I usually take a couple of primings from the bottom (and flue-cure or sun-cure them), then wait for the upper leaf to look ready. If much of it seems ready for harvesting all at once, then I may stalk-harvest the remainder of each stalk, and hang it on a clothesline. [I remove the bud heads at this point, to minimize budworms.] While it is still green or even yellow, it can tolerate rain. Once it begins to brown, it should be brought under shelter during periods of rain.

The greatest difficulty of sun-curing is avoiding having the leaf desiccate while green. Cloudy vs sunny skies, average temperature and average humidity dictate the challenge. This is less of a risk while hanging on a stalk. With primed leaf, a day or three yellowing in the shade may reduce the risk of drying green.

You can also just air-cure the Izmir. Not as nice as sun-cured, but not bad.

Bob

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Bob:

Most of the types I planted were nice and uniform. Izmir seemed to be that exception. I also had four of 36 Harrow Velvet's that were off-type.

I start my seedlings in trays. I transfer the best seedlings into 2 1/4" pots to grow out for eventual outdoor transplantation. Naturally, I pick the biggest best seedlings to transplant into the small pots. At that point in time, it is pretty difficult to see if one individual is maybe an off-type. I'm relying on uniformity of seed to keep my lines pure. What can I say? As I've said previously, Izmir was just a dozen plants for fun. That is why I have so many different types. You never know what a variety is like 'till you try it out.

Anyway, be that as it may, I thank you for the info. Looks like air curing will do just fine for Ismir.

Wes H.

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

First of the new crop pickings "In Process" of curing. Photo one, two strings, both burley types in my store room. Left string has lost it's chlorophyll nicely but is still very wet. Got to keep and eye on these to prevent rot. Right string has dried a smidge too quickly and is a little green around the edges. When these are ready, it's into the kiln for them! Gotta' get those fat wet stems under control first. Photo two, This string has colored down nicely, but has started to show the beginnings of rot on a few leaves. I hung them out to dry...so to speak. I am letting them air out outside for a few hours before putting them back in storage. Again, I've got to keep an eye on those fat wet stems. (Pesky things!) Same story as photo one, as soon as they are ready it's into the kiln for these.

 

[deluxestogie]

Try drying the wet stems by stacking the leaves in your seedling heater closet thing.

Bob

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

New photos from my new toy. You can actually see these. All photos taken ~ 07:30 before the sun has started beating down.

Photo 1, view from my back door. Back fence pretty much totally obscured by tobacco plants. Same with my woodshed. You can't see it at all. Photo 2, Bolivia Criollo Dark in the dense brush. 6' tall, no flowers yet & growing like corn! Photo 3, My yellow rosebush outnumbered & surrounded by Gold leaf 939. Photo 4, plots 4 & 5. ~ 45 plants in here total. Photo 5, Plots 1 & 2 ~ 150 plants in here. Photo 6, Plot 3 - 36 "Harrow Velvet". Photo 7, African red trying to escape. Fence is 7' tall.

 

[deluxestogie]

Great photos, and an impressive crop.

Bob

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Thanks.

The Bolivia two rows over is a nicer specimen, but I can't really get at it for a photo. Too much vegetation in the way. I don't want to break a bunch of leaves climbing around in there.

I'm lucky that I have excellent soil. A lot of people don't. Our farmers grow wheat on steep hillsides around here with slopes of up to 45 degrees because our soils are so productive. Also, as I have stated previously, I'm a firm believer in commercial fertilizer. I wish I could still get my 27-12-0-4.5 Unipels! (I am omitting the major brand name.) Those have been gone since the late 80's. I also put a lot of planning into my varieties and plantings. You can't really see it a few photos, but my rows are nice and straight, I use a string and a measuring tape, I also plant staggered, orchard style. The rest is up to mother nature and my water well. (Actually, I fuss over these things every day. They are very pampered plants.)


Left: 2 Turkish six feet tall Right: Three (of four)rows of Costello Negro-mostly about six feet tall.

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

New photos taken w/ my new toy.

Photo 1, what I consider a pretty standard tobacco bloom (Costello Negro). Next 4 photos, bloom from Burley 9. Definitely a different kind of bloom. The trumpet is shorter and wider. Maybe some Rustica ancestry showing here? I'm not sure. I had to get on my step ladder to shoot these. Plant is 7' tall. The seed catalog didn't say how tall they'd get, so they are a little bit of a surprise. Photo 6, my Connecticut Shade. I planted these in a more shady part of the yard. They only get about 4 hours of sun per day. They sat there for the longest time, but finally started growing. These are 4+ feet tall & growing like corn. I might get some leaves off of these yet this year. The CS I planted in the front yard don't get enough sun & won't ever make it this year. Photo 7, Freshly color cured tobacco, Burley 9 variety, ready for kilning.





Wes H.

 

[deluxestogie]

Blossom photos are always interesting. One thing to notice: in some varieties, the pistil is longer than the 5 stamen, in others, the 5 stamen are longer than the pistil, and in still others, they are the same lengths. (Presumably, this affects the extent to which open blossoms are self-pollinated.)

Blossom colors for Nicotiana tabacum range from white to light pink to dark pink and all the way to deep crimson. The petal shape can range from rounded to acute points.

Bob

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Bob:

These are good things to know. I'll have to go check my plants out & see. Are the variations in the blooms any indicator as to ancestry? As far as that goes, I might be able to look this variety's ancestry via the USDA plant database.

The one thing I have learned about tobacco in my short time doing this is that there is a whole lot to learn about tobacco.

Thanks

Wes H.

 

[deluxestogie]

I've seen next to nothing on blossom morphology as related to ancestry.

Ancestry is pretty murky for most tobacco varieties. In general terms, we know that many cigar varieties originated in Mexico (~Vera Cruz) and the neighboring Caribbean islands, and that many flue-cured types came from the Orinoco River valley in today's Venezuela. But the worldwide distribution of tobacco occurred over 500 years ago. A lot of nicotine has flowed under the bridge since then.

Tobacco growers (as well as most scientists) paid little attention to Gregor Mendel's work (published in 1866!) until well into the first decades of the 20th century. The generation-by-generation alterations witnessed in imported tobacco varieties, as they began to look more and more like the locally grown variety, was universally attributed to the effects of local soil and weather. "Acclimation," they called it. No blossoms were bagged.

Starting in the mid 1920s, the USDA undertook searches among the world's tobacco varieties (spearheaded by "USDA Agricultural Explorers") to find varieties resistant to various tobacco diseases, and modern genetics were applied. The ARS-GRIN seed bank is the fruit of this. Most are simply identified by their geographic point of acquisition. The later the GRIN accession date for a variety, the greater the probability of some lineage being recorded. But even then, the majority of accessions have no ancestry recorded in GRIN. Those intentionally produced for solving a disease problem do tend to have some documented lineage. A more productive source of parentage for "newly" developed strains are the archives of the bulletins from Ag Extension Services of various tobacco states. It's tough searching.

Even for the vaunted Havana varieties, their growing practice in Cuba, until the 1920s, was a mish-mosh of a half-dozen different varieties, all open pollinated, and supplied by dedicated seedling producers. This mix of transplants was delivered randomly to growers, who planted them all. At harvest time, the growers were observant enough to separate the primed leaf of "good" varieties from those of "not so good" varieties. But it was a mess.

Now that we are experts at Mendelian genetics, wouldn't you know it that it turns out that epigenetic factors (that do respond to local soil conditions and local weather) can indeed be passed from one generation to the next, in some cases for several generations down the line. [That's the same mechanism whereby Granny's cigarette habit can affect her grandchildren in subtle ways.] These epigenetic factors are "on/off" switches that determine if a perfectly good gene is allowed to operate or not. It's also similar to the mechanism that hopefully allows the genetically identical tissues of your brain to be different from those of your butt.

Sorry for droning on.

Bob

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Bob:

Nothing like a good old fashioned lecture to expand my knowledge base. Somehow, the information you provided is not surprising. I seem to recall that Columbus brought the first tobacco back to Europe on his third voyage. Or was that the chili pepper? I forget. Anyway, tobacco spread all across the world very quickly. It was tobacco that turned Jamestown from a struggling colony into a prosperous settlement. Chili Peppers have a similar history. Interesting that chili peppers, tobacco, and potatoes are all from the new world and all are members of the nightshade family. Botany is a fascinating subject. Hence all the potentially impertinent questions.

Thanks,

Wes H.

 

[deluxestogie]

It was tobacco that turned Jamestown from a struggling colony into a prosperous settlement.

But only after they made the switch from their initial attempts at trade with Europe using the Indians' N. rustica, to the newly discovered Orinoco. And that was simply air-cured Orinoco that was so successful.

Bob

 

[Gmac]

Yaha! I just logged into FTT using Internet Explorer (something an old dinosaur might do). I have no toolbar buttons in my quick Reply box.

Try Google Chrome. You should be able to export your IE bookmarks, then import them into Chrome.

[Since I am 69 years old, I am permitted to speak freely about old dinosaurs and their predilections.]

Bob

I did just exactly the opposite with a ancestry.com site.
Gmac

 

[deluxestogie]

I did just exactly the opposite with a ancestry.com site.
Gmac

They say that the nice thing about standards is that there are so many to chose from.

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Now that we are experts at Mendelian genetics, wouldn't you know it that it turns out that epigenetic factors (that do respond to local soil conditions and local weather) can indeed be passed from one generation to the next, in some cases for several generations down the line. [That's the same mechanism whereby Granny's cigarette habit can affect her grandchildren in subtle ways.] These epigenetic factors are "on/off" switches that determine if a perfectly good gene is allowed to operate or not. It's also similar to the mechanism that hopefully allows the genetically identical tissues of your brain to be different from those of your butt.

Sorry for droning on.

Bob

Thank you for the info on epigenetics. As a psychology student, I'm familiar with the topic in regards to humans, and just last week, believe it or not, I was wondering if it had a role in tobacco.

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Color Cured & ready for the kiln



Photo 1, Bolivia Criollo Dark. First picking. Photo 2, Ternopolskii 14 also first picking.

During the coloring process, Ternopolskii 14 turned the most interesting shade of orangey red. Then on to the buckskin tan you see in the photo. Must have been the carotenoids decomposing. Or maybe the anthocyanins.