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greenmonster714

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If you had only 3 Cigar tobacco filler n binder strains to grow next year. What would you choose?

If you had only 3 pipe blending strains to grow next year. What would they be?

If you had one choice of tobacco for snuff. What would that be?

I woul like to grow 3 Cigar leaf plants next year. I can buy the wrapper leaf but need a nice filler and binder to play around with.

Also, I am planning on 3 types for pipe blending, making cavandish, and perique.

Lastly, I'd like to grow one strain for chew/snuff.

7 is the lucky number this next season. I'd planned on about thirty different ones but after this past seasons issues I need to keep the total below eighty plants. I'm already looking forward to next year. Looking at seeds and trying to set up a game plan. At least next year I don't have to gather the basics like trays n stuff.
 

deluxestogie

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These are perennial questions, for which there are countless answers.

Cigar Leaf #1 filler (select only one)
  • Corojo 99
  • Vuelta Abajo
  • Corojo (any other)
Cigar Leaf #2 filler (select only one)
  • Little Dutch
  • Long Red
  • PA Red
  • Swarr-Hibshman
Cigar Leaf #3 binder (select only one)
  • Olor (also listed as Dominican Wrapper)
  • Piloto Cubano
  • Besuki (tabakanbau variety listed as "Java Besuki")
  • Comstock Spanish
Pipe Blender #1 flue-cured (select only one)
  • VA Bright Leaf (if you can flue-cure)
  • Costello
  • Hickory Pryor
Pipe Blender #2 Oriental (select only one)
  • Xanthi
  • Basma
  • Izmir (any)
  • Prilep 66-9/7 [my favorite]
Pipe Blender #3 Perique and Cavendish (select only one)
  • Maryland 609
  • Harrow Velvet Burley
  • Perique (the variety)
Chew/Snuff: no recommendation

Bob
 

DistillingJim

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Its hard to argue with anything Bob said although I would personally grow 2 different orientals (say Black Sea Samsun and Yendije which offer very different flavour profiles) over a Burley as I tend not to smoke that.

Semois could also be a consideration as it goes well in pipes and is also sold in cigar form (albeit mild ones and not to everyones taste).
 

greenmonster714

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These are perennial questions, for which there are countless answers.

Cigar Leaf #1 filler (select only one)
  • Corojo 99
  • Vuelta Abajo
  • Corojo (any other)
Cigar Leaf #2 filler (select only one)
  • Little Dutch
  • Long Red
  • PA Red
  • Swarr-Hibshman
Cigar Leaf #3 binder (select only one)
  • Olor (also listed as Dominican Wrapper)
  • Piloto Cubano
  • Besuki (tabakanbau variety listed as "Java Besuki")
  • Comstock Spanish
Pipe Blender #1 flue-cured (select only one)
  • VA Bright Leaf (if you can flue-cure)
  • Costello
  • Hickory Pryor
Pipe Blender #2 Oriental (select only one)
  • Xanthi
  • Basma
  • Izmir (any)
  • Prilep 66-9/7 [my favorite]
Pipe Blender #3 Perique and Cavendish (select only one)
  • Maryland 609
  • Harrow Velvet Burley
  • Perique (the variety)
Chew/Snuff: no recommendation

Bob
Once again, thanks Bob. Yeah it could be an endless list. I just need some ideas to keep things small and not get caught up in the desire to grow more than I can handle.



Its hard to argue with anything Bob said although I would personally grow 2 different orientals (say Black Sea Samsun and Yendije which offer very different flavour profiles) over a Burley as I tend not to smoke that.

Semois could also be a consideration as it goes well in pipes and is also sold in cigar form (albeit mild ones and not to everyones taste).

Thanks Jim, I'm leaning towards the prilep 66 9/7. I plan on no more than a 10 of each so maybe I can cut the orientals in two and grow 5 prileps, 5 of either the samsun or yendije. If all goes well I'd imagine that would be plenty.
 

deluxestogie

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A consideration of the labor involved should address the number of varieties, aside from the total plant count. I've found that it is more work to grow 4 plants each of two varieties, than to grow 8 plants of a single variety. This is because of the need to separately string, label and track each variety, and is amplified by the likelihood that the two varieties will mature at a different schedule. You also have the issue of producing enough of a single variety to get a good sampling of its strengths and weaknesses.

I've grown Samsun, Samsun-Maden and Bafra (in addition to over a dozen other Oriental varieties). Each has its unique qualities. Checking out which you prefer can be a major undertaking, as you found in 2017.

And there's always the next year to try something different.

Bob
 

DistillingJim

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It may also be beneficial to consider what you can buy vs what you cant. Obviously WLT can provide you with good quality flue cured and burley, but it has a limited selection of orientals. So why not play off that and focus on orientals or a specific flue-cured that you really want to try?

Equally, it has a great selection of cigar tobaccos, but tends not to stock some forum favourites such as Little Dutch.
 

deluxestogie

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It may also be beneficial to consider what you can buy vs what you cant. Obviously WLT can provide you with good quality flue cured and burley, but it has a limited selection of orientals. So why not play off that and focus on orientals or a specific flue-cured that you really want to try?

Equally, it has a great selection of cigar tobaccos, but tends not to stock some forum favourites such as Little Dutch.
All good points.

Nobody grows Little Dutch any longer, except for us little people.

Bob
 

greenmonster714

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I see what your both saying and thanks for the input. The only tobacco I want to buy would be about 3lbs of a nice flue cured Virginia and a pound of Latakia which should last for years. You guys always throw out some good points to consider. Exactly what I need and asked for..thank you.
 

deluxestogie

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But...but...what about.... Never mind.

Be steadfast in your resolve. Otherwise we'll all talk you into more work.

Bob
 

ChinaVoodoo

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It may also be beneficial to consider what you can buy vs what you cant. Obviously WLT can provide you with good quality flue cured and burley, but it has a limited selection of orientals. So why not play off that and focus on orientals or a specific flue-cured that you really want to try?

Equally, it has a great selection of cigar tobaccos, but tends not to stock some forum favourites such as Little Dutch.

I honestly have my doubts I will ever be able to produce cigar tobacco half as good as WLT. I'll keep trying, though, but I don't want to commit too much space until I know I can.
 

greenmonster714

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But...but...what about.... Never mind.

Be steadfast in your resolve. Otherwise we'll all talk you into more work.

Bob

Lol Yeah I'm aware of that. My brain tells me to grow just a few more. It'll never hurt. Fact is...yes it will hurt. I lost a lot of leaf this year. Worst part was watching it fade away. I can't let that happen again. 7 varieties about 80 or less plants.


I honestly have my doubts I will ever be able to produce cigar tobacco half as good as WLT. I'll keep trying, though, but I don't want to commit too much space until I know I can.

I was a bit taken back when I read this. What makes Don's leaf better than the leaf you grow and process? Is it aged, dried, fermented differently? I don't smoke cigars much at all anymore but I would like to have the option. The cigar leaf kit Don sent me is petty kickarse. The smell is awesome. I've not attempted to roll one yet. I'm still playing with the pipe blend he sent but I will attempt a roll soon.
 

SmokesAhoy

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Snuff: Olson 68, burley
Cigar: corojo99, burley
Pipe: burley
F the fc process, just buy it.

There, I got you down to 3 varieties. 20 plants each and you can stalk cure them all. Should be like 15-20 lbs and not too much hassle
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Lol Yeah I'm aware of that. My brain tells me to grow just a few more. It'll never hurt. Fact is...yes it will hurt. I lost a lot of leaf this year. Worst part was watching it fade away. I can't let that happen again. 7 varieties about 80 or less plants.




I was a bit taken back when I read this. What makes Don's leaf better than the leaf you grow and process? Is it aged, dried, fermented differently? I don't smoke cigars much at all anymore but I would like to have the option. The cigar leaf kit Don sent me is petty kickarse. The smell is awesome. I've not attempted to roll one yet. I'm still playing with the pipe blend he sent but I will attempt a roll soon.

The cigar varieties I have grown have after being kilned just taste like burley. Pergeu Brazil, Cuban Criollo 98. I do have a more optimistic view of the Piloto. I haven't kilned it yet , but in a pipe, it kinda tastes like cigar filler. I'll let you know in a couple months. I think it's a climate thing for me. This was a good year, and I've learned to fertilize better as well. Fingers crossed.

On the positive side, my flue cured tobaccos have all been really good. If you have the means, flue curing is worth it. Sorry Smokes. Not only do you get flue cured tobacco, it also shortens curing down to about a week.
 

deluxestogie

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As I type, I'm smoking a cigar wrapped in WLT Dominican Binder (probably it's Olor). No binder beneath it. The filler is entirely my own Vuelta Abajo and a large leaf of Swarr-Hibshman. It's a wonderful cigar.

It took me several years of fiddling with cigar varieties and kilning and aging to reliably produce excellent cigar leaf, and even then, some varieties just don't pan out. For me, the Corojo 99, Coroja, Criollo, Olor, Vuelta Abajo, Besuki, FL Sumatra, Little Dutch, Long Red and Swarr-Hibshman give me premium quality leaf, if given a chance to age. The WLT leaf has at least a few years of age, and many varieties a decade or more. That makes a difference.

Of the varieties that have seemed ready after only a few months of aging, then kilning plus a few more months of aging, the Corojo 99, Coroja, Criollo, FL Sumatra, Little Dutch, Long Red and Swarr-Hibshman top the list.

I won't know about the Piloto Cubano for a while.

There are many variables that affect the outcome: okay cigar leaf vs. excellent cigar leaf. Great cigar leaf is grown in Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Maryland, etc. So it doesn't require the sub-tropics. While specific soil conditions impact specific flavor characteristics, that's not really what I'm talking about. Seasonal weather can swing a crop from good to bad--but we can't control that any more than Cuba can control that. I believe that agricultural practices, harvest timing, curing arrangements and conditions--these make a huge difference.

I know that my sense of when to water and not to water has changed over the years. My assessment of when to prime or stalk cut the leaf has changed. My spacing of strings and stalks in the shed has changed. Most of all, I have become more patient.

As this all comes together, I'm hard pressed to identify the fine details. It all blends into an acquired sense of what "seems right". The longer I do this tobacco growing stuff, the more difficult it becomes to pinpoint specific techniques. That is the curse of expertise--an instinctive and less cognitive mode of carrying out a task.

Fortunately for me, I have extensively documented all the details of what I did when, and how I did it at each moment in the trek from novice to journeyman to expert. I really do need to go back, systematically tease it all apart, and write a coherent manual.

Sorry for the long-winded reflections. But, yes. It is possible to grow excellent cigar leaf. It just takes time to work out the kinks.

Bob
 

OldDinosaurWesH

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Bob:

Interesting piece.

Your statement is a good reflection of what one fellow I know had to say about tobacco growers vs. other types of farmers. He said "they are their own club."

Wes H.
 

Smokin Harley

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If you had only 3 Cigar tobacco filler n binder strains to grow next year. What would you choose?

If you had only 3 pipe blending strains to grow next year. What would they be?

If you had one choice of tobacco for snuff. What would that be?

I woul like to grow 3 Cigar leaf plants next year. I can buy the wrapper leaf but need a nice filler and binder to play around with.

Also, I am planning on 3 types for pipe blending, making cavandish, and perique.

Lastly, I'd like to grow one strain for chew/snuff.

7 is the lucky number this next season. I'd planned on about thirty different ones but after this past seasons issues I need to keep the total below eighty plants. I'm already looking forward to next year. Looking at seeds and trying to set up a game plan. At least next year I don't have to gather the basics like trays n stuff.

3 cigar fillers- Criollo 98 ,Corojo ,Vuelta Abajo
3 pipe blend varieties- Orinoko ,Virginia and Perique
Chew- both the Virginia and Orinoko can serve that purpose as well as they are sweeter. and Criollo can also go into a pipe blend. You can make Cavendish with nearly any tobacco but if you need another variety to make 7 then I would say Burley since it is versatile ,for another Pipe blender and chew . Really FWIW- I've made the best chew out of my scrap leaf bits . You might say its a random and revolving ingredient recipe.

I'm thinking now about my "comeback crop" in 2018 ,going from IL typical midwest loamy soil to Alabama red sandy clayey soil. It will be starting fresh . Curious to see how it turns out.
 

greenmonster714

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Thanks for the input smokes. Yes, it will be like starting over. Big difference between North and South soil. Here in the NW Central area there's a lot of Sandy soil with that red clay not far below it. One good thing is rain tends to sink into the sand rather quickly which keeps down the threat of flash floods. Then there's that tornado thing.
 

Smokin Harley

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Thanks for the input smokes. Yes, it will be like starting over. Big difference between North and South soil. Here in the NW Central area there's a lot of Sandy soil with that red clay not far below it. One good thing is rain tends to sink into the sand rather quickly which keeps down the threat of flash floods. Then there's that tornado thing.

Here up on the plateau of Gunter Mtn that is Grant we do pretty well (so far) avoiding tornadoes. Most of the storms turn and hit the valley (G'ville) before they make the climb up to 1310 ft. We did have one big wind storm late November that helped clean our pecan trees . My wife and my son helped me pick up over 80 lbs in one afternoon. In Tobacco grow, my crop would be well under cover and cured by that time again...er, I hope .
We absolutely love it here. Every time we see the weather,crime, new laws and taxes happening up in IL , we smile and just say glad we don't live there anymore.
 

greenmonster714

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I do like the Northern areas of AL. The deep hollows and rolling hills remind me of SE Ohio. Being away from the big cities makes for some peaceful living. I'm glad to see y'all get settled in.
 

mwaller

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I grew a bunch of cigar tobaccos this year - Corojo 99, Criollo 98, Vuelta Abajo, Florida Sumatra, and Havana 142. I have kilned samples from each variety, and none of them taste like a cigar... it's pretty disheartening!
I'm slowing rolling my way through a number of WLT cigar leaves, and they are excellent.
I'm hoping that additional age will help bring out the 'cigar' character in my homegrown leaf, but I'm not holding my breath. Let me know how you like that Piloto Cubano!

The cigar varieties I have grown have after being kilned just taste like burley. Pergeu Brazil, Cuban Criollo 98.
 
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