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Your cigar plume/bloom is actually mold

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ArizonaDave

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Thanks Jitterbugdude for posting this. I'm not surprised at all. I store all my home rolled at lower than recommended humidity levels, and never have this problem. Definitely "another reason" to roll your own.
 

DIY Pete

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Agreed thanks for posting. I was rather ambivalent to plume since I don't have any cigars with major age at this point. I also keep my cigars at 65%RH or less.

Pete
 

deluxestogie

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Basically a bunch of cigars were analyzed and every single one of them that had bloom actually had mold.
I've said this for years. My opinion is never well received when I mention it during a visit to a tobacconist whose cigars have "bloom".

On the other hand, I've never had any research in hand to support my opinion on the matter. So thanks for posting that.

Bob
 

Charly

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I am not surprised either, but I have to add that I had some really delicious "bloomy or moldy" cigars :)
I remember one cigar that even took a light mushroom taste and was unique and very good !

I think what is called bloom is probably on specific type of mold, because I have already seen different kind of molds (some are very uniformly distributed whereas others are more "web" or spot distributed along the cigar).

Light mold on cigars is not necesserally a bad thing.

EDIT : I wrote the above message before reading the page linked, it seems that I was right about the differences in mold distribution : it depends on the type of mold. Maybe some molds are better than other (flavorwise).
Thanks for the link !
 

deluxestogie

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In the photos of the article, you can see certain cigars with "bloom" only at the head. This suggest to me that it is the cigar glue on these particular sticks that is supporting the mold growth.

Bob
 

DIY Pete

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Besides even if "plume" is real on a certain cigar, I don't want the oils crystallized on the outside of the cigar. I want them in the leaf where they belong for my smoking pleasure.

Pete
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I've smoked plenty of cigars with bloom. I'll buy a bloom rather than a non bloom given the choice. I was always a skeptic of the oils and precipitate theory though, due to the simple fact that I have decent eyes. But I think bloom can be good, perhaps depending on which one of the fungus or yeast species mentioned in the article below it is. Ultimately, the proof is in the pudding. If they taste good, I'm satisfied.

Whatever your theory on enzymes vs microorganisms in tobacco aging, and there's so much we don't know, there are fungi and yeast that can become involved and can be beneficial to aging. But we're fungiphobes, so the industry had created this myth about oils and crystals to protect us from our worst fears.

I've got a kiln experiment on the go, high moisture, 131F, and I'm seeing some interesting growth that, I swear to my mother, looks like crystals. I took one look, and I thought to myself, did I just duplicate bloom? Tasted real good too.
 

OldDinosaurWesH

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I checked out the article referenced. A good argument for home-made fresh cigars. Sometimes I get various types of mold going on my leaf. Usually because I did a poor job of curing. I trim that stuff out and discard it. I'm not interested in burning any unknown fungi. I took Plant Pathology in college, and learned a fair amount about Fungi. Some are beneficial, some are benign, and some are dangerous. And unless you are a trained Mycologist, why risk it? There are some kinds of Fungi that are highly deleterious to human health. Especially when they get into the lungs.

Good spot on the article Jitterbugdude. Even an OldDinosaur is never too old to learn a new trick.

Wes H.
 

deluxestogie

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If you like "bloom", why not decide the organism yourself? The two below are used in cheese making, and are safe to consume. Both are sometimes used together to create the outer layer of brie.

Geotrichum candidum: http://www.cheesemaking.com/shop/in...owders/choozit-geotrichum-candidum-geo15.html
Penicillium candidum: http://www.cheesemaking.com/shop/penicillium-candidum-white-mold-powder-1-pack.html

You don't want to be messing with Aspergillus, some species of which can produce toxins that will damage your liver if you suck on a tainted cigar wrapper. The spores of some of these can grow in your lungs, if you inhale them. The bad news is that they are extremely common in the home.

Bob
 

ChinaVoodoo

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If you like "bloom", why not decide the organism yourself? The two below are used in cheese making, and are safe to consume. Both are sometimes used together to create the outer layer of brie.

Geotrichum candidum: http://www.cheesemaking.com/shop/in...owders/choozit-geotrichum-candidum-geo15.html
Penicillium candidum: http://www.cheesemaking.com/shop/penicillium-candidum-white-mold-powder-1-pack.html

You don't want to be messing with Aspergillus, some species of which can produce toxins that will damage your liver if you suck on a tainted cigar wrapper. The spores of some of these can grow in your lungs, if you inhale them. The bad news is that they are extremely common in the home.

Bob

Hey, slow down. I'm not suggesting people intentionally mold their cigars. Simply put, people have been safely smoking cigars with certain distinct patterns of bloom for a very long time. To go beyond the limited evidence that cigar smoking is bad for you in the first place to prophecy dire consequences from smoking cigars with bloom is unreasonable, in my opinion.
 

deluxestogie

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Sorry. I didn't mean to sound alarmist. We consume mold-tainted foods throughout our lives. (e.g. Dried beans often contain low levels of aflatoxins from Aspergillus growth on the drying pods in the field.) I love blue cheese salad dressing and mold ripened cheeses. My point is that a moldy cigar wrapper may not be innocent.

In the wider scheme of things, consumption of acetaminophen (Tylenol) is a more common cause of liver failure than aflatoxins.

On the other hand, it might actually be interesting to play with some known safe microbes. [Maybe you could sprinkle Propionibacterium freudenreichii subsp. shermanii into cigar filler, then roll the stick as tightly as a chunk of rebar. The Propionic shermanii, which produces the gas holes in swiss cheese, would then assure a perfect draw--or cause the cigar to explode.]

More seriously, with my own cigar leaf, I will happily smoke slightly moldy filler, so long as it smells good. But I will not smoke a moldy wrapper. And I won't purchase a moldy cigar.

Bob
 

DistillingJim

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I think its quite probable the plume is somewhat innocuous. However, I also find it telling that much like 'crystals' in 'quality' pipe tobacco, we have once again been sold a load of bollocks by tobacco marketing agents.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Sorry. I didn't mean to sound alarmist. We consume mold-tainted foods throughout our lives. (e.g. Dried beans often contain low levels of aflatoxins from Aspergillus growth on the drying pods in the field.) I love blue cheese salad dressing and mold ripened cheeses. My point is that a moldy cigar wrapper may not be innocent.

In the wider scheme of things, consumption of acetaminophen (Tylenol) is a more common cause of liver failure than aflatoxins.

On the other hand, it might actually be interesting to play with some known safe microbes. [Maybe you could sprinkle Propionibacterium freudenreichii subsp. shermanii into cigar filler, then roll the stick as tightly as a chunk of rebar. The Propionic shermanii, which produces the gas holes in swiss cheese, would then assure a perfect draw--or cause the cigar to explode.]

More seriously, with my own cigar leaf, I will happily smoke slightly moldy filler, so long as it smells good. But I will not smoke a moldy wrapper. And I won't purchase a moldy cigar.

Bob

In retrospect, I was overly sensitive, Bob. No worries.

Jim, I totally agree about the quality tobacco crystals thing.

I'm curious though about the crystals issue, not in regard to esoterica, but in regards to my own. I had some incredibly harsh on the tongue -not quality- Kumanovo develop crystals on the leaf in the kiln. It was only the darkest of the leaves, and the crystals eventually went away, and the tobacco improved dramatically. So it's kind of the opposite of what the BSers say. There's some tiny crystals on my kilned rajangan, but it's not harsh, and it's good, but I almost wonder if the crystals are merely a coincidence. Crystals can occur, but I believe it doesn't mean anything in regards to "quality." But what is it, really, from a simple curiosity ?
 

Jitterbugdude

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I would guess that crystals that form on commercial pipe tobaccos are the sugasr precipitating out of the casing/flavorings.
I think the lab that did the cigar study will test for "crystals" for something like $250.00. Anyone have any extra money?
 

deluxestogie

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Just in terms of the chemistry, crystals usually form in a solution that is supersaturated with a compound (e.g., salt in hot water or table sugar in hot water), as the solution cools, and is no longer capable of keeping the solute in solution. From tobacco leaf, I can easily imagine some dissolved compound on the surface of the leaf crystallizing as the leaf dries, or as the lamina shrink during kilning.

The contrary seems to be the case with cigars that are properly kept in a humidor. I can see no reason why anything would crystallize on the surface of a cigar kept a constant 65%+ humidity. Volatile compounds are indeed released, but they are volatile, and don't precipitate back onto the surface from which they were released. (The common practice is to maintain tobacconist humidors at a nominal 70%--conditions which offer a nice, "fresh" feel to the cigars, but can support vegetative mold growth.)

I agree with JBD about crystals on cased commercial tobacco. If the tobacco begins to dry, the glop in the casing can crystallize.

An easy method for telling the difference between crystals and mold is a high power hand lens (10x to 30x). If you see hyphae (branching filaments), it's fungal. Also, if you see hyphae, they surely penetrate into the lamina. [Search Google for images of hyphae.]

All that being said, for all the decades that I've been storing cigars at 65% RH, and the years that I've been kilning tobacco, I can't recall seeing crystals.

I have one curious exception. Decades ago, I had a box of cigars (La Herencia, if I recall) that were cello wrapped, and were contained in a Spanish Cedar box which had been made from inadequately cured wood. I didn't like the cigars, so I just ignored them in my humidor for several years. When I finally opened the box again, there were crystals (which I assumed were some terpene compound from the now dried wood) precipitated onto the exterior of the individual cellophane tubes. So crystals were there, but they were not from the cigars. And it's the only box that did that, among 45 years of cigar boxes.

Bob
 

OldDinosaurWesH

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If you find some exotic new crystal form I want naming rights!

Wes H.

P.S. If I remember correctly, there are only 14 possible crystal symmetries. It is useful to know these for identifying minerals. Same goes for organic crystals. Sugar (organic) has a very distinctive shape. Same goes for salt (inorganic).
 

ChinaVoodoo

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And it makes some sense that in a kiln where the humidity fluctuates regularly that I might see some crystallization.

I had salt crystals on stems in the curing room three years ago. I know it was salt because I tasted it. Likely due to shrinking of the stems as they dried.

About not seeing crystals, Bob. It could be presbyopia. I myself make a living reading fine grained industrial x-rays and am tuned in to seeing tiny details on a regular basis. Sometimes the older techs accuse me of seeing things that aren't there.
 

FmGrowit

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There is little doubt that "salts" do exist on leaves, but it's most prominent on the mid-rib of air cured tobaccos. Occasionally, we get bales of cigar filler with a clearly visible dusting of white stuff on the leaves. Within these bales are flakes of somewhat compressed leaves that have not been separated since they were put into the pilone. When these flakes are separated, the white dusting is on these leaves as well.

I'll find a lab in the area, probably the U of A and see what this white stuff really is.
 

deluxestogie

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About not seeing crystals, Bob. It could be presbyopia.
Yeouch! That's a high probability guess, but incorrect. I wear half-height readers all the time (and look over the top edge, as though I'm wearing bifocals). I also happily resort to the several magnifiers that I keep handy, to examine any ultra-fine details.

I never bale tobacco, so I can't comment on what you may find there. Baling and prolonged storage under changing conditions could easily contribute to both crystal formation from salts of various composition, as well as mold growth.

Bob
 
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