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1st Time Flue curing, Looking for a bit of advice, Leaf isn't yellowing quick enough.

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Orson Carte

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The leaf had a hard life it was probably dried or at least a bit dried during Wilting, I'd say the 2 Slow Cookers ran out of water also during wilting. I've consider the Cozy Can, the only places I can see these Galvanized Steel Bins there selling them for about $75 USD, I'm broke could probably afford it but I'm also not paying $75 USD for a steel bin, maybe I can find a 2nd hand bin.

There would be a much cheaper alternative if a steel garbage bin is beyond your means - a 209 litre drum (US. 55 gallons). You can get these with a beaded fitting lid - even with a clamp if you wish. I used to deal in these and I could buy them for the price of scrap metal.
However, bearing in mind that I, too, am a beginner when it comes to flue-curing (and with all due respect to the 'inventor') I cannot see how, the 'Cozy Can' is anything more than a 'science fair' project.
You simply can't get enough material into it. I know that, in my case it just couldn't keep up with the ripening of the crop.
 

KiwiGrown

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There would be a much cheaper alternative if a steel garbage bin is beyond your means - a 209 litre drum (US. 55 gallons). You can get these with a beaded fitting lid - even with a clamp if you wish. I used to deal in these and I could buy them for the price of scrap metal.
However, bearing in mind that I, too, am a beginner when it comes to flue-curing (and with all due respect to the 'inventor') I cannot see how, the 'Cozy Can' is anything more than a 'science fair' project.
You simply can't get enough material into it. I know that, in my case it just couldn't keep up with the ripening of the crop.

I think the Cozy can would be big enough for a backyard grower like myself, if your like me and only have space for 20 or so plants and not all of those are bright leaf varietys.

I think I have 16 bright leafs 2 to 3 leaves off each 48 leaves max, I think he said about 70 can fit in the can ?

What I had built was probably good for about 150 plants maybe more, I could afford to do the can, it's just I cant justify it to my wife and even myself spending more money at this time on this project. Also I feel like 100 NZD for a metal bin is taking the piss.
 

Orson Carte

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I am more than a little surprised that you're happy with only two or three leaves off each plant. I'd expect at least six times that amount.
One possible ploy to subdue your wife would be to remind her that ryo tobacco in NZ (the very cheapest way to buy it) is now around $1800 per kilogram. (For interested Americans, that's US$586 per pound!)
I have spent less than $1500 (around US $1000) on my 1000cu ft chamber, and that's less than the cost of a kilogram (2.2 lbs) of tobacco.
And btw, I'm really only a 'backyard grower' myself.

ps. On reflection, I assume that your 'two or three leaves per plant' means each priming, so maybe something made from a lidded drum would suffice. However, you might have to dig up a bit more of your backyard next season if you want to grow a year's supply of baccy.
 

deluxestogie

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I cannot see how, the 'Cozy Can' is anything more than a 'science fair' project.
You are correct. But keep in mind that, at that time, no backyard growers had figured out how to flue-cure their tobacco. The Cozy Can was a demonstration of the absolute minimum requirements for the task. I believe that leverhead was simultaneously exploring the use of a 55 gallon metal drum, though his configuration was more complex.

Bob
 

Orson Carte

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You are correct. But keep in mind that, at that time, no backyard growers had figured out how to flue-cure their tobacco. The Cozy Can was a demonstration of the absolute minimum requirements for the task. I believe that leverhead was simultaneously exploring the use of a 55 gallon metal drum, though his configuration was more complex.

Bob

Bob -
I realise that it is a demonstration of the possibility of doing an industrial process at home and I certainly wasn't disparaging the idea, outright. I was really only trying to say that it's capacity is limited to dealing with a very small crop.
 

KiwiGrown

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Yes I was referring to each priming, at 300 plants I'd classify you as a "hobby grower" you must have more land then the average person avaible to you.

I'm livin more or less on the edge of town, in a rented house so I don't want to mess with digging up lawn.

It's a shame too, there used to be greenhouses for miles, it's a great place to grow tobacco but now it's all tiny little sections.

I've put my leaves in one of those pop up greenhouses now with a bucket of water will see how sun curing works out for them.

I'm not a cigarette smoker, I smoke a few bowls on the weekend, A years supply for me is probably less then a couple of pound, pipe tobaccos available in NZ are very limited and at 100 bucks for a 50 gram tin of aromatic crap, currentry I import from the US mostly Samuel Gawith blends, my favourites being Vapers and Straight virginias so it's kind of important I can flue cure.

I'm more interested in having a decent variety for blending and preferably enough that I can age it.

Next season I want have at least 1 bright leaf, 1 cigar and 2 orientals that I may even grow in large pots.

Not sure what cigar variety would be good for blending but I do like cigars maybe I'll try roll my own cigars next season as well.
 

Leftynick

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Next season I want have at least 1 bright leaf, 1 cigar and 2 orientals that I may even grow in large pots.

This year I grown tobacco in 5 liter plastic recycle bottle successfully. I have the same problem as you, there are not enough space.
 

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[...] I cannot see how, the 'Cozy Can' is anything more than a 'science fair' project. [...]
"a science fair project"... well, I am happy "someone" did it to show that flue curing was something we can do (us, small growers), you are a bit rough on this, Orson ;)
The "cozy can" project is an example, it shows what you need to do the job done, you can scale it to your needs.
Of course, it is not meant to flue cure 150 plants at one time, but for those who have only a few virginia plants, it can be enough.

I say : thank you Bob !
 

KiwiGrown

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"a science fair project"... well, I am happy "someone" did it to show that flue curing was something we can do (us, small growers), you are a bit rough on this, Orson ;)
The "cozy can" project is an example, it shows what you need to do the job done, you can scale it to your needs.
Of course, it is not meant to flue cure 150 plants at one time, but for those who have only a few virginia plants, it can be enough.

I say : thank you Bob !

Well said, I think I've found a suitable substitute for a Steel Trash can, they seem almost impossible to find around this part of the world, I think i'm going to convert a old 4 Draw Filing cabinet unless I can find something better... Any other suggestions ?
 

DistillingJim

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Thats an interesting idea Kiwi. I'm weighing up ideas of how to build a new kiln myself (fridge conversion, exoskeletal etc) and I imagine that could work well as a frame.

Part of me is wondering if the paint used might let off anything noxious but I guess a dry run would answer that?
 

KiwiGrown

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I had a look at one today and the inside wasn't painted, its powder coated anyway right ? Problem is you have to put a door on it, I was considering reusing the timber from my failed chamber to build a frame around the filing cabinet which would give me something to fix a door onto and put insulation in, again to reuse what I have from the failed build.
 

deluxestogie

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Some years ago, I looked into the possibility of constructing a flue-cure chamber using multi-layer, self-insulating, transparent Lexan panels. Their temp range seems workable.

Polycarbonate_5wall.JPG

http://www.polycarbonatestore.com/polycarbonate/

My conclusion was that, although you could indeed construct the entire chamber with polycarbonate panels, a more traditional chamber with just a polycarbonate door might be a practical, cost-effective approach.

Bob
 

KiwiGrown

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I've rebuilt my chamber, I have my 1st batch in the new improved chamber currently 9 hours into the stem drying, A smell I can't think of how to describe has filled my garage its not overly strong, sort of a strewed fruit and wet dog smell.

I was a little concerned about the smell had a look though the vent with a torch to make sure everything was ok, was hit with a blast of warm air that made my eyes water a little bit but nothing looked like it was burning or anything so assuming its normal.

Not much hope for this batch turning out amazing, maintaining humidity during colour curing was a bit of a nightmare, I've only 1/4 filled the chamber and I've not installed any sort of intake air vent so I couldn't seem to maintain a high humidity without water in the slow cooker and with water in the slow cooker I had to much and couldn't vent it fast enough.

36 hours in the leaf was looking very yellow and a little patchy easily ready to move onto wilt but I had to get to work so 9 hour later got home and the brown had pretty much taken over, lessons have been learnt, install a intake vent and time batches so I can be there to advance to the next stage when the leaf is ready.

Most this leaf was harvested during the cyclone that hit New Zealand and got a little beaten up before I stacked it and waited for the weekend for me to build the chamber, it probably was a little over ripe to begin with by the time I had it up and running.
 

deluxestogie

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During the yellowing phase, the leaf is still alive. So it doesn't matter if the humidity is higher than shown on the graph.

As with SpaceX rocket launches, we all learn as we go, in the techniques of flue-curing.

Bob
 

Orson Carte

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I've rebuilt my chamber, I have my 1st batch in the new improved chamber currently 9 hours into the stem drying, A smell I can't think of how to describe has filled my garage its not overly strong, sort of a strewed fruit and wet dog smell.

I think I know the 'smell' you're talking about;
When I was doing my very first flue-cured batch (just a fortnight ago), on Day 3, or maybe 4 I opened the main exhaust vent and caught a smell that I hadn't smelled for over forty years ...
It took me instantly back to the early 1970's when I was living near Ashburton on the Canterbury Plains, New Zealand. The big deal for many plains farmers at that time' was growing alfalfa/lucerne - which was dried, pelletised and exported to Japan as chicken feed.
Along the main road there were several processing plants running day and night, and whenever I drove past one of them, the smell (not an unpleasant one) was inexcapable.
Basically, it was just green plant material being rapidly dried. And that is exactly the same smell I get coming out of my flue-chamber.
And it's not just me - an old friend (an ex-locomotive engineer, a non-smoker non-grower) poked his head into the emptied chamber the other day (curious as to what my latest madness was), and said to me, 'I haven't smelled that smell in donkey's years. You know, it smells just like that lucerne factory by the old Moumahaki (railroad) Station. (Near Waverley, NZ.)
 
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Orson Carte

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Sorry to leap into this thread again, but the question's fairly urgent;
I have been following the curing schedule, fairly diligently - the one headed 'For Normal Ripe Tobacco'. I appreciate, I think, that the prescription is aspirational, and can be varied a little, depending on circumstances.
Even after very limited experience it strikes me that only the really critical phase is the first one - the Yellowing. Everything after this is pretty much perfunctory - provided the temp. and humidity curves are followed, it's hard to go too far wrong.
It has been my experience, so far (using obviously 'ripe' leaves, and leaving them stacked outside the chamber for a couple of days) that they are pretty much yellowed (perhaps with a little green tinge, here and there) after just 24 hours in the chamber.
My Question: Is it true to say that if the temperature is stepped-up (into the Wilting phase) after just 24 hours, with the leaf not quite as yellow as it would be if left for 48 hours, that the finished product will tend to be more Lemon than golden/brown?
And, related to this - has whatever is supposed to happen, chemically, happened if the leaf is yellowed, regardless of the time taken.
 

deluxestogie

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Is it true to say that if the temperature is stepped-up (into the Wilting phase) after just 24 hours, with the leaf not quite as yellow as it would be if left for 48 hours, that the finished product will tend to be more Lemon than golden/brown?
And, related to this - has whatever is supposed to happen, chemically, happened if the leaf is yellowed, regardless of the time taken.
My impression is that lemon vs. golden is dependent on the stalk level of the leaf. Yellow vs. brown, on the other hand, is dependent on prompt vs. delayed initiation of leaf wilt.

Once the leaf is mostly yellow, it's time to move on.

Bob
 

KiwiGrown

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I was under the impression it doesn't matter as long as its within 80-99% except when its reaches above 100% humidity causing condensation to build on the leaf, which causes the brown spots and wilting is to remove excess water which allows air to move freely over the leaf to avoid sweating during leaf drying which again gives you the brown spots.

I gather once your into leaf drying stage the humidity doesn't really matter as long as your below around 35% (Excess humidity causes darkening of the leaf ?) and again for stem drying as long as your below around 18%, I'm thinking these figures are more to do with energy conservation by closing dampers when bulk curing and for a home growing you don't need to worry if your below these figure as long as you can retain the temperature.

Once I was into the wilting stage everything seemed to pretty much naturally follow the graph anyway, its a real shame I had to sleep and then go to work the next day missing the timing to dry my leaf quick enough to fix the desired colour.

I think bob is spot on about lemon vs golden, the batch of leaf I have going at the moment is all mid to upper stalk and the yellow colour was far darker more mustard yellow then the bright lemon yellow I saw on the bottom primings when yellowed, it may have something to do with the thickness of the leaf as you move up the stalk ?

Now if only I could figure out Red Virginia, my favourite of all baccys !
 

deluxestogie

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Now if only I could figure out Red Virginia, my favourite of all baccys !
Red Virginia = upper leaf.

Variety does influence what you end up with, but the upper leaf gives you red. Because it is usually slower to mature, it may be in the yellowing phase considerably longer than bottom leaf--just to reach yellow. But after that, it's exactly the same program as with bottom leaf.

Bob

EDIT:
Garden20170924_3100_VA_FlueCured_mineByPosition_700.jpg


This is my leaf (in the bags), compared with WLT leaf. Note the stalk positions indicated, as it correlates to color.
 

KiwiGrown

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Interesting so you don't think it needs to be cured at a hotter temperature ? I'm about an hour or two off finished for this batch, I wonder if maybe some of it turns out red that would be nice. I say an hour or two but i'm not 100% sure how to tell if the stems are dry without physically checking they snap ? It would of been 24hours stem drying .
 
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