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Tobacco Kiln/Hard Cider-Beer fermentation chamber

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Paraord

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Hi everyone!

Well Im going at this growing my own tobacco and I currently have 2 seed trays worth at the "little swollen green ball bearing" stage. Hopefully thats a good sign, if not I can ditch as I have time between now and my last frost date.

I want to make a tobacco kiln but have it double as a hard cider/beer controlled fermentation. With an old orchard on the property we take making cider pretty serious. Its just as much fun to make as it is to give to my friends. I actually just finished the final touches on the new press here.

m2ZdhXxm.jpg

I was given a commercial refrigerator with a bum cooling motor (all top mounted so taking it off was easy peasy). The plan is to plug the intake and exhaust with some sheet metal siliconed around the edges, fill the cavities with a combo of hard and expanding foam, and top the whole unit with sheet metal bent down a couple inches over the ends and screwed into place for a good clean finish.

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As far as the thermostat I was thinking a PID setup. I use one for my lead casting pot so putting them together and setting it up is no issue. Ive heard those inline thermostats dont have the best longevity, I could probably do the water heater setup but I love the digital output of the PID and how bulletproof it is. I will also run a secondary thermometer/hydrometer.

Next on the list is a heating element. I know the crockpot is used pretty frequently but I want this to serve a dual purpose. Keeping it at 90 degrees for optimum yeast fermentation of alcohol doesnt require any humidity so I want to separate the two functions. I was thinking about one of those silicone heating pad elements like this one that tops out at 300 degrees F

https://www.ebay.com/i/332030174379?chn=ps&dispItem=1

Air circulation I am planning a 70CFM bathroom fan mounted on the bottom end with L brackets, hooked up to a fan speed controller that will be located at the same location as the PID. Not sure if I should leave it as the exhaust as is or if I should add a PVC snorkel going to the top, to a 95 degree and then a straight with a mess of holes drilled into it or some more elaborate diffusing strategy. Any ideas on if this is too much or too little air circulation is greatly appreciated. I was eyeballing 70 cfm because it was the middle of the road for these vents.

Which leaves me to the last component of the tobacco kiln. Humidity. At 120 degrees can I put like a casserole dish full of water in the bottom rack and achieve the 70% RH? move a sheet over top of it with some trial and error? Anyone have any suggestions to make the humidity an individual component? Maybe a reptifogger?

I have plenty of time to go from where I am now to where I need to be and will be chipping away at it as time goes on, not an overnight thing, but serving a dual purpose makes this not the typical build from what I've seen.

Any help is appreciated! Sorry for all the newby questions and lengthy post. Thanks in advance everyone
 

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Paraord

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as a home tobacco grower and home brewer myself , that sounds like a great plan.
welcome to FTT

Thanks Smokin Harley, Its always nice to build something that serves a purpose almost year round!

This morning while diving into the book I got from seedman.com in their tobacco kiln they use 1 of the Oshkosh humidifiers. Cubic feet on that one they built is 4.125ft. Cubic feet of mine will be 18.375ft. That would mean if the relationship of adequate humididty control were liner I would need 4.45 of those humidifiers. At 50 bucks a pop I will be further ahead with something like this that I just found

https://www.cigarsinternational.com/p/humi-care-xg1000-pro-humidifier-humidification/1438279/

For some reason I didnt even think about cigar humidors so I searched "Large Humidor Humidifier". Unless something else that might fit the bill better I think this is the ticket for me.
 

greenmonster714

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That's one sweet gifted freezer. That will be easy to convert to your needs. I've often read that even though it is a freezer most folks end up adding extra insulation around it. One would think that it has enough built in but I've read different. Now that's just what I've read not experienced. I have a chest freezer I plan on making a flue/kiln as well. Still gathering materials...the story of my life..lol. It will be fun to watch your progress on this. Good luck.
 

deluxestogie

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Welcome to the forum. I would worry that a plastic humidification gadget designed for a humidor would promptly fail in a 125°F environment. A Crockpot works magnificently inside a tobacco kiln. I have run mine totally dry for flue-curing (up to 165°F). For the gentle warming of cider fermentation, a dry Crockpot on a PID controller should last forever.

At 125°F, kilning tobacco cannot mold. So precise humidity control is pretty much wasted effort and expense. Keep water in the Crockpot, and let her crank at 125°F. (In the past, I used a small tub of saturated rock salt within a kiln to maintain a relative humidity of 75%, and can state without equivocation that the tobacco will kiln just the same as with zero humidity control. After a few years of watching and fretting over my in-kiln hygrometer, I finally just tossed it.)

Have a look at our Index of Key Forum Threads for deep reading: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/3868-Key-threads-in-the-FTT-forum

Feel free to start your own grow log in Grow Blogs, when the time comes.

Bob
 

Paraord

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Welcome to the forum. I would worry that a plastic humidification gadget designed for a humidor would promptly fail in a 125°F environment. A Crockpot works magnificently inside a tobacco kiln. I have run mine totally dry for flue-curing (up to 165°F). For the gentle warming of cider fermentation, a dry Crockpot on a PID controller should last forever.

At 125°F, kilning tobacco cannot mold. So precise humidity control is pretty much wasted effort and expense. Keep water in the Crockpot, and let her crank at 125°F. (In the past, I used a small tub of saturated rock salt within a kiln to maintain a relative humidity of 75%, and can state without equivocation that the tobacco will kiln just the same as with zero humidity control. After a few years of watching and fretting over my in-kiln hygrometer, I finally just tossed it.)

Have a look at our Index of Key Forum Threads for deep reading: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/3868-Key-threads-in-the-FTT-forum

Feel free to start your own grow log in Grow Blogs, when the time comes.

Bob

Ya know I was trying so hard against the crock pot for some reason, but you got a point there for sure. If it didn't fail immediately I bet the life would be pretty short. And i have a spare crockpot. So PID to crockpot it is as long as it's low enough. I'll get some measurements come Monday.
Thanks Bob
 

Smokin Harley

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Thanks Smokin Harley, Its always nice to build something that serves a purpose almost year round!

This morning while diving into the book I got from seedman.com in their tobacco kiln they use 1 of the Oshkosh humidifiers. Cubic feet on that one they built is 4.125ft. Cubic feet of mine will be 18.375ft. That would mean if the relationship of adequate humididty control were liner I would need 4.45 of those humidifiers. At 50 bucks a pop I will be further ahead with something like this that I just found

https://www.cigarsinternational.com/p/humi-care-xg1000-pro-humidifier-humidification/1438279/

For some reason I didnt even think about cigar humidors so I searched "Large Humidor Humidifier". Unless something else that might fit the bill better I think this is the ticket for me.

my kiln when I still had it was 2x4x4 or roughly 32 cu ft. i heated and humidified it with basically a controlled crockpot
 

Paraord

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Mrs Paraord had an extra darn near brand new crock pot that she doesnt like for some reason or another. Looks like it finally has a purpose so Ill be using that. PID will come off of ebay from a vendor I already used for a lead casting pot PID I think I mentioned that.

Today on a lunch break I sealed up the 2 holes (intake and exhaust) for the refrigeration unit with some sheet metal, siliconed all edges with 450F rated silicone as well. I surely didnt skimp on the silicone quantity. On one of the holes it was darn near a perfect square so I just put down 2 layers of the hard foam I had from taking the motor unit off. The other only has the sheet metal and silicone currently weighted down with scrap metal chunks for pressure. Anyone know of the working temps for expanding foam? I was going to fill the rest of both in with expanding foam and quickly cap off with sheet metal to allow maximum expansion inside, instead of blowing out the top.

I may put down a piece of that foam board stuff on the top of the unit prior to capping it off with some more sheet metal, I haven't decided yet. Ill get a few pictures up tomorrow of the progress.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I've recently changed my kiln tactic. I moisten my tobacco to high case and put it in a sealed brewing primary. I haven't had to add water at all.
 

Paraord

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Temperature limits of various insulation materials: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/insulation-temperatures-d_922.html

Bob

EDIT: I notice that there are specialty foam insulations that are listed as fire-block.

I just dove into that fire-block great stuff and found right from DOW that cured fireblock great stuff and regular both have a cured fire temp of a lowly 240F. I am honestly rethinking the application of this expanding foam. I know 240F is a double factor of my intended 120F but it still seems kind of low doesnt it?

Were getting there! One step at a time.
 

deluxestogie

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...I know 240F is a double factor of my intended 120F...
The walls of my kiln are made of XPS foam. This has a max working temp of 165°F. When I'm using the kiln for flue-curing, I take the temp up to 165°. And it works just fine. Max working temp means that it works at that temp. If you were heating with a log fire, then a wide margin might be prudent.

Bob
 

ChinaVoodoo

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The walls of my kiln are made of XPS foam. This has a max working temp of 165°F. When I'm using the kiln for flue-curing, I take the temp up to 165°. And it works just fine. Max working temp means that it works at that temp. If you were heating with a log fire, then a wide margin might be prudent.

Bob
Mine is the same. I think they've added a safety factor in when they report a maximum temperature of 165. The melting point of polystyrene is 464F, a flash point of 650F, and an auto ignition temperature of 800F. http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics1043.htm
 

Paraord

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The walls of my kiln are made of XPS foam. This has a max working temp of 165°F. When I'm using the kiln for flue-curing, I take the temp up to 165°. And it works just fine. Max working temp means that it works at that temp. If you were heating with a log fire, then a wide margin might be prudent.

Bob

Thanks guys, Ill opt for reusing existing foam from the refrigeration unit and just cutting it down and filling the holes. Lunchtime today Ill cut some sheet metal for the tops, fill with expanding, and cap them off. In the mean time heres some pictures.

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Before weights on the metal

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After weights/copious amounts of silicone.

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Oh and the donation by mrs paraord lol
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deluxestogie

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If the interior walls of the fridge are plastic, you may want to do a careful trial run, slowly approaching kiln temp, just to make sure it endures those temps. Then hold it at temp for 2 or 3 days, to outgas the materials.

Bob
 

riverstone

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I gave the inside of mine a coat of water based bathroom paint to act as a seal against gassing off. It has worked well with zero smell. Just don't paint where the door seals touch the main body:mad: I had to scrape that bit off again.
 
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