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Very spicy cigar leaf

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buck

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I decided to roll a cigar with some home grown Tobacco of unknown variety that I found in a unmarked box, kilned and put in the box I would say two or three years ago.

Rolled one up and it was not bad except for very heavy spice is this due to lack of age, lack or improper kilning or all three ?

Anyone ever experience this and how/what did you do to mellow it out ?

Thanks
 

burge

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latria is the only spiced tobacco I know of and you only need a bit to spice up a blend. Can you post a picture of the leaf?
 

greenmonster714

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latria is the only spiced tobacco I know of and you only need a bit to spice up a blend. Can you post a picture of the leaf?

Do you mean latakia? What is latria? I've not heard of that one.

Buck, I don't have a clue how to mellow that out but I'm sure someone will pipe in here about the aging or kilning. Nice find. Box of chocolates tobacco...lol.
 

burge

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The computer the stupid spell thing on it wants to change it to that unknown tobacco.
 

buck

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The tobacco I rolled I believe is cigar tobacco one of Olor, Pa Broadleaf, Jalapa, or Pa Red. I don't think that any of those should produce leaf like that.
Just thought someone here would have experienced what I'm talking about. Should I try kilning it again ?
 

ras_oscar

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The taste of a cigar leaf is more than just the species of plant.. Its also where on the stalk the leaf came from. In *GENERAL* the leaves highest on the plant are thick, small and high in nicotine. They are hard to burn and require other leaves to help. That is called ligero. The leaves in the middle are a bit larger, an bit thinner and a little less nicotine. They burn fairly well. That is called visio. The leaves at the bottom of the plant are large, thin light in flavor and burn very well. That's called seco. A balanced cigar will have some component from each of these "primings". The ligero goes in the middle then the visio with the Seco on the outside.
 

buck

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I understand the various primings and their characteristics, and when I say spicy I mean very spicy .. try this, wet your finger, cover it with black pepper and suck it, that'll give you an idea of the spicy I'm talking about :)
The finish is not as long as that but that's the feel I get with every draw minus the pepper flavor, just heat.



The taste of a cigar leaf is more than just the species of plant.. Its also where on the stalk the leaf came from. In *GENERAL* the leaves highest on the plant are thick, small and high in nicotine. They are hard to burn and require other leaves to help. That is called ligero. The leaves in the middle are a bit larger, an bit thinner and a little less nicotine. They burn fairly well. That is called visio. The leaves at the bottom of the plant are large, thin light in flavor and burn very well. That's called seco. A balanced cigar will have some component from each of these "primings". The ligero goes in the middle then the visio with the Seco on the outside.
 

fimbrew

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The black pepper spiciness is what e-cig forums say is characteristic of old, oxidized nicotine. How that happens in cigar leaf- or why it doesn't usually happen in aged cigar leaf- I can't speculate. But If it was a high nic variety that might be why.
 

CobGuy

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The black pepper spiciness is what e-cig forums say is characteristic of old, oxidized nicotine. How that happens in cigar leaf- or why it doesn't usually happen in aged cigar leaf- I can't speculate. But If it was a high nic variety that might be why.

That's interesting!
I've got some Dominican leaf that is older and has been in and out of case several times.
It makes for a fairly peppery smoke and I wonder if this is part of that correlation.

~Darin
 

deluxestogie

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If oxidized nicotine provided a black pepper spiciness, then most vintage cigars would taste peppery. They don't. I don't think that's it.

Bob
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Thinking back, I recall tasting & enjoying what I would describe as pepperiness in certain cigars.
An unknown Mexican I bought at Iwan Ries,
The Brazilian which was made by Zino
Hoyo de Nicaragua

It's a seemingly random list, innit?
 

fimbrew

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Well If I must specultate, I suspect there are reduced sugars and other organic processes and antioxidants at work in aging leaf that protect the nic from oxidation but to a limit. Vinegar (acetic acid) is characteristic of oxidized ethanol. So why doesn't vintage wine taste like vinegar? Well sometimes it does. Composition and conditions determine whether a wine ages well. Yeast and tannins and sorbates are powerful antioxidants. Stored in air-tight containers wines will never turn into vinegar. It will never turn into a well aged wine either. That is why they still use oak and cork to lay down vintage wines. A gentle oxidation allows malic and citric acids to oxidise into softer acids, tannins into softer aldehydes and ethanol into acetic acid. Yeah there SHOULD be a vinegar note in a well aged merlot. These all happen below perceptabe levels individually but as an ensemble makes an improvement over the young wine. Leave that wine in glass in a warm room for a few days and you made wine vineger.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Wine only turns into vinegar in the presence of acetobacter bacteria and oxygen. They are either already present, or get in when a bottle is opened because they are almost everywhere. When the bottle is opened they gain access to oxygen in the atmosphere . A properly sealed bottle will not have the necessary air for them to do their thing.

Nicotine oxidizes into nicotine oxide, so I don't think you would notice a difference either way.
 

fimbrew

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Acetobacter speeds things up thus preventing other oxidation products ensuring purer vinegar but vinegar will happen all by itself in pure ethanol in the right conditions. Ever had a corked wine? That happens because a bad cork allows a large ingress of oxygen not bacteria. I have no Idea about nicotine oxidation reactions especially in a tobacco leaf but both composition and conditions determine the outcome. I'm sure there is a reason they treat fine wine and fine cigars similarly.
This reminds me of a debate brewers have about hot side aeration. For homebrewers it isn't an issue but for professionals it's a big deal because they cant control the conditions of the end product. We love and take care of our product but because of circumstances sometimes the limits are pushed. Then we have fun figuring it out.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I'll have to take your word for it on the topic of wine.

In regards to tobacco, though, to think in terms of oxidation is too simplistic. Experiments have been done to increase air flow, store tobacco in pure oxygen under pressure, and so on. These methods don't age tobacco in the same way as properly aged tobacco. Also, there are countless enzymes, proteins, starches, and possibly microorganisms to consider. Tobacco aging is not a question of chemistry, but biochemistry. Consider that burning tobacco doesn't instantly destroy it, but a short trip to the liver does.
 
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