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Can cured tobacco be fire cured

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BarG

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Can a leaf that has been air cured be fire cured? Lataquia tops for instance. [I bet its spelled wrong].
 

Juxtaposer

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I would say no, but you certainly can put them in a smokehouse to get a fire cured flavor.
 

FmGrowit

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I'd have to agree. You can only cure tobacco once...(OK, twice if you're making perique), but you can add flavor to it any time and as often as you want.
 

BarG

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Thats what I suspected. Very interesting about flavoring tobacco. To date I have never tried. I did try some of chickens batch last year and it was definently smooth, and different in a good way. There is some recipes I could try posted that don't require a major undertaking, but like all recipes you got to have the main ingrediant.
 

deluxestogie

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I would disagree. I've done three fire-cure batches over the past couple of years--in a trash can on top of a smoker. The leaf needs to somehow lose its green before the leaf dries. In each batch, I waited until the leaf was at least yellow before starting up the heat and smoke. I suppose that in a commercial setup, the heat and humidity could be carefully controlled, so that it quickly yellows, as happens with flue-curing, before the fires are increased.

The fire-curing is so overwhelming a process, compared to the yellowing, that I would assert that it makes little difference if the leaf is yellowed (color-cured) without smoke. One point that may or may not make a difference is the rapidity of the yellowing phase. If the sugars are fixed by rapid yellowing in heat, is there still any trace of that after four or more weeks of intense smoke and heat? I don't know.

Last year, the fire-cure batch was Shirazi, which has a strong tendency to dry green. I hung it inside the galvanized trash can, and allowed the sun to keep the closed can at about 110-115ºF during the day, without allowing the humidity to dissipate. It required about two weeks to fully yellow. Then I stoked up the smoker, and began 4 weeks of fire-curing in the can (it had holes drilled into the bottom).

FireCureChamber2_20110908_02_InOperation.jpg

The details: http://www.howtogrowtobacco.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4028

Historically, fire-curing was simply a method to slowly dry a barn full of green tobacco. Initially, flue-curing was the same method, but one which channeled the smoke of the fires away from the leaf, to avoid the smoky flavor. Only later was the rapid, high-temperature flue-cure method developed.

Bob
 

BarG

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I would disagree. I've done three fire-cure batches over the past couple of years--in a trash can on top of a smoker. The leaf needs to somehow lose its green before the leaf dries. In each batch, I waited until the leaf was at least yellow before starting up the heat and smoke. I suppose that in a commercial setup, the heat and humidity could be carefully controlled, so that it quickly yellows, as happens with flue-curing, before the fires are increased.

The fire-curing is so overwhelming a process, compared to the yellowing, that I would assert that it makes little difference if the leaf is yellowed (color-cured) without smoke. One point that may or may not make a difference is the rapidity of the yellowing phase. If the sugars are fixed by rapid yellowing in heat, is there still any trace of that after four or more weeks of intense smoke and heat? I don't know.

Last year, the fire-cure batch was Shirazi, which has a strong tendency to dry green. I hung it inside the galvanized trash can, and allowed the sun to keep the closed can at about 110-115ºF during the day, without allowing the humidity to dissipate. It required about two weeks to fully yellow. Then I stoked up the smoker, and began 4 weeks of fire-curing in the can (it had holes drilled into the bottom).

FireCureChamber2_20110908_02_InOperation.jpg

The details: http://www.howtogrowtobacco.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4028

Historically, fire-curing was simply a method to slowly dry a barn full of green tobacco. Initially, flue-curing was the same method, but one which channeled the smoke of the fires away from the leaf, to avoid the smoky flavor. Only later was the rapid, high-temperature flue-cure method developed.

Bob

Bob , That is highly prized leaf you cured by that method. It had to be a labor intensive process?
 

deluxestogie

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Bob , That is highly prized leaf you cured by that method. It had to be a labor intensive process?
If you can get Shirazi to color-cure without green, it's fairly nice leaf.

As for labor, my approach to fire-curing required starting the low fire two to three times per day, and allowing it to go out each night. This continued daily for four weeks. The smoker was physically located close enough to my porch that I could glance at the can's thermometer from time to time. By the third week, I had a good notion of how to setup the coals and wood so that it would burn slowly, keep going, and not overheat.

I think it would need 2 or 3 months of smoking to resemble Latakia. Also, the different woods used to smoke it are a tricky combination. Latakia uses a variety of live oak, myrtle (not crepe myrtle) and various scrub wood. I used unpainted oak barn-board, apple wood and bark-on maple. In the future, I will not include bark on the maple, and may exclude the oak. Some have suggested pine, but I'm hesitant to add a turpentine component to the mix. Apple wood alone makes a delicious fire-cured tobacco. I've used hickory alone. It smells wonderful, but reliably elicits comments about barbecue.

Bob
 

Daniel

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I have not looked at fire curing specifically. I can ay that Flue curing uses 120 degrees for approx one day to turn the leaf from green to yellow. The temperature is then steadily raised to dry the leaf tissue out. that is a fairly fast color change in my experience. I am wondering if fire cure has a similar first 24 to 48 hour stage.
 

Rayshields

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Very good question, Daniel. I am awaiting an answer from someone who knows. Another question I have is do you wash the leaves for flue and fire cured? If so do you let them dry before putting them into curing chamber/barn?
 

deluxestogie

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I'm sure that it's possible to take the leaf through a rapid yellowing phase with an open fire. I don't really trust my charcoal skills with rapid color-curing, especially with a troublesome leaf like Shirazi. (Other strings of Shirazi, in the shed, were drying green alongside varieties that had no difficulty naturally color-curing to a rich gold.) If it were a flue-cure variety or a burley, I think it would be practical.

Bob
 

CoralReefs

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Alright, not to derail this conversation (I have been following it as a quiet lurker until now), but a really weird thought just popped into my head when rapid yellowing was mentioned-

Has anyone tried curing tobacco with a table top rotisserie roaster? Something like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs..._mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D29X-_-100520726

I am not sure how hot those guys get- perhaps the temperature can be controlled with a variac or something like that.
 

workhorse_01

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Coral reefs wants to be able to set it and forget it like ronco. LOL, Hey do they have a setting for darker leaf or lighter like a toaster ? sorry man i couldnt resist if you saw what i'm puttin together the blasting would go on for days !
 

CoralReefs

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Coral reefs wants to be able to set it and forget it like ronco. LOL, Hey do they have a setting for darker leaf or lighter like a toaster ? sorry man i couldnt resist if you saw what i'm puttin together the blasting would go on for days !

Ah yes, the Ronco infomercials. I still like his spray on hair in a can best.
 

deluxestogie

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The tricky part of rapid yellowing is maintaining the humidity until it is complete. I don't think Ron Popeel took that into account. If you rapidly heat green leaf while allowing all the moisture to escape, it gives you candela leaf, which is used for cigars with a green wrapper.

Bob
 

Tom_in_TN

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Bob, when the heat is increased in curing green leaf the humidity needs to be controlled too. Flue Curing, bring the heat up gradually to start the yellowing process while keeping the moisture content fairly high for about 2 days? I'm sure you'e posted this process some where. Curious, since I have that 401 Cherry Red Free variety growing and doing fine so far.
 

workhorse_01

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So what are the numbers ? 110*F for two days or so @70% RH ? Then gradually on op to 180* F @ 60% RH ? I dont want mold, and i know from my trade that it's impossible for mold to grow below 72% RH .I'm actually thinking about adding a shadded UV light to my airstream just to be shure. It's just too much work to loose to mold.
 

Daniel

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In regard to Flue curing. (curing quickly with heat). Part of the purpose of the process is to color cure and then stop the fermenting process. I am also wondering if fire curing is meant to impart some element at a specific stage in the fermenting or aging of the leaf. In the case of Flue curing you really don't want any aging. you cure the leaf then kill off the aging properties. IN fire curing you may not kill off the aging properties but you may very well alter them to get the final product.
 

Daniel

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Ovens have been mentioned in the use of flue curing. I have one of those roasters and fitting much leaf in them would be a challenge.
As for temps. Specific guides give different temperatures but the idea is this.
100 degrees until the leaf turns yellow (24 hours or so)
120 -130 degrees until the leaf is dry (about 2 more days)
150 - 160 degrees until stem is dry. ( another couple to three days.)
time from putting in oven to finished tobacco should be about 7 days.

As you can imagine green leaf turning yellow is dumping a tremendous amount of water. keeping humidity down will most likely be the challenge. once leaf starts to dry this humidity issue will switch and keeping humidity up until all the leaf turns yellow becomes an issue. you don't want it to dry green. at 100 degrees this could happen very quickly. HEre in our climate leaf can literally flash dry in a few seconds if exposed to the outside air at those temperatures.

The way I picture the entire process is to slowly cook the leaf to yellow then roast it over several days time. tobacco comes out pre roasted and as aged as it is going to get.
 
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