aging of Virginias - a preference or a necessity?

[SmokeStack]

I have read a lot about how magnificent it is to smoke Virginias after it has been aged for several years. This year I am growing Yellow Orinoco, Yellow Pryor and Italian Bright Leaf. I plan on air curing then kiln fermenting. From what I gather, Virginias require a minimum of two years of aging before smoking in the pipe. This means my tobacco will be ready in the year 2015! Is aging a requirement or a personal preference? Will Virginias coming out of the kiln taste worse than aged tobacco or just different?

 

[FmGrowit]

Are you referring to Flue Cured tobacco as Virginia tobacco? BigBonner grew some Bright leaf and flue cured some and air cured some also. My guess is because of the elevated ph cause by flue curing, it wouldn't make a good pipe smoke...unless you use it for flavor.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I grow Virginia Gold and have always fermented it. Last year I had such a large crop I only fermented a small amount of it. The rest was stored in a big plastic container. I took some out last week, put it in my pipe and it tasted just like the fermented stuff. So, after just "resting" for 8 months it was fine without be kilned. I have since put it out in the barn to "sweat". I'll try it latter in the summer but I can't imagine the flavor improving any, it tastes fine as is. I've also tried Perique and Yellow Twist Bud and they also taste fine. It seems the nicotine is higher though.

As far as them tasting better after aging for a few years it might be because in pipe tobacco they add a shitload of flavorings and it is these flavorings that probably taste better after 2 years of mellowing.

After your tobacco is cured this year I would suggest you sample it every month or two until it is to your liking.

 

[leverhead]

I grow Virginia Gold and have always fermented it. Last year I had such a large crop I only fermented a small amount of it. The rest was stored in a big plastic container. I took some out last week, put it in my pipe and it tasted just like the fermented stuff. So, after just "resting" for 8 months it was fine without be kilned. I have since put it out in the barn to "sweat". I'll try it latter in the summer but I can't imagine the flavor improving any, it tastes fine as is. I've also tried Perique and Yellow Twist Bud and they also taste fine. It seems the nicotine is higher though.

As far as them tasting better after aging for a few years it might be because in pipe tobacco they add a shitload of flavorings and it is these flavorings that probably taste better after 2 years of mellowing.

After your tobacco is cured this year I would suggest you sample it every month or two until it is to your liking.

Did you prime your Virginia Gold or stalk harvest?

 

[SmokeStack]

There are many blenders that produce premium pipe tobacco blends without the use of added flavorings. Rattray's Marlin Flake is one example (and one of my favorites) of a Virginia (flue cured) and Perique blend with no added flavors. I've seen people buy 20 year old 4 oz cans for $100 on eBay. There are several other premium blends on the market that have no added flavorings but you won't find them at the local drugstore, gas station or 7-11. They are nothing like Captain Black - I bought a pouch of Captain Black once and I threw it in the garbage after a few puffs. Anyway, would you pay $100 for a quarter pound of aged Virginia tobacco? Or $400 for a 2 oz tin of Balkan Sobranie from the 1960's? Someone did!

 

[Chicken]

ive noticed my big-gem aged is better than it was last dec.

 

[FmGrowit]

The added flavor I was suggesting would come from the the leaf being flue cured processed opposed to it being air cured. From my limited experience, the air cured has a very different flavor than the flue cured. Flue cure processed tobacco would not provide any nicotine in a pipe blend therefore would only be used as a flavoring to the blend.

Of course, flue cure processed tobacco could also be included in a pipe tobacco blend to assist in building body and it can also be added to assist in the burn of the overall blend.

 

[SmokeStack]

FmGrowit, I am looking for a sweet tobacco. I have read Yellow Orinoco (a flue cured variety) is a very sweet tobacco so I am growing it this year. Virginia (or flue cured) tobaccos have a high sugar content. Which curing process (either flue curing or air curing) would give a sweeter tobacco?

 

[deluxestogie]

For pipe blends using pressure-fermented Perique, which is distinctly alkaline, it is blended with the acidic flue-cured Virginia. I've found that the final pH balances with about 3 parts Perique to 5 parts flue-cured Virginia (though this ratio varies with the strength of the Perique). If you consider those "parts" as ounces, then the Perique/Virginia blend makes up 1/2 pound. The other half pound can be the same, or can be 4 parts Oriental and 4 parts fire-cured (or Latakia). This produces a fairly convincing English pipe blend. But its edge at the tip of the tongue is produced by the flue-cured component.

Flue-cured Virginia ages very slowly, if at all. If the flue-cure regimen goes above 191ºF, as some do, then all the oxidizing enzymes are denatured, and the leaf will not age further.

Virginia (or other flue-cure classed variety) that is air-cured, then aged, is what the pipe tobacco world calls "mature Virginia," which is typically a reddish brown, and is fairly easy to make by just kilning your air-cured Virginia-type leaf, or allowing it to naturally age for a year or three.

Bob

 

[SmokeStack]

Thanks Bob,

One the molecular level, I am wondering what compounds (in particular) are being oxidized by the oxidizing enzymes. Virginia pipe tobaccos start out sweet and then become tangy so I assume that the sugars are being oxidized to organic acids (which I am guessing is what accounts for the tang). But I am sure other compounds are undergoing oxidation to yield new flavor constituents. From what I understand, flue curing "locks in" sugars, whereas air curing allows for the enzymatic breakdown of sugars.

Since all of the oxidizing enzymes become denatured during the flue-curing process, then kiln fermenting flue cured tobacco makes no sense - that is, if there are no enzymes to procure the fermentation process. I am kiln fermenting flue cured Virginia Bright Leaf now and I am am beginning to suspect that this serves no purpose. I have smoke the flue cured Virginia Bright Leaf as a cigarette and it is nice and sweet. But smoking it in a pipe is a different story. Pipe smoking is a little more discriminating. My experience with pipe smoking flue cured Virginia Bright Leaf is that it is a bit harsh. By kiln fermenting the VA Bright Leaf, I was hoping to reduce the harshness and to mellow the smoke a bit. But without the enzymes present, does it make sense for me to kiln ferment tobacco that has been flue cured?

 

[deluxestogie]

...what compounds (in particular) are being oxidized by the oxidizing enzymes. ...pipe smoking flue cured Virginia Bright Leaf is...a bit harsh. By kiln fermenting the VA Bright Leaf, I was hoping to reduce the harshness and to mellow the smoke a bit. But without the enzymes present, does it make sense for me to kiln ferment tobacco that has been flue cured?

I don't have any reference for this, but I believe that oxidase and peroxidase are oxidizing carbohydrates, albuminous proteins, and, to some extent, the various alkaloids.

For smoking pure flue-cured Virginia in a pipe, some recommend consciously slowing down, taking only tiny "sips" of the smoke. Although I find this suggestion difficult to follow in practice, it does seem to eliminate the tongue bite. Just blending with Perique will also eliminate the tongue bite.

Since kilning requires only one month, you might want to just complete the kilning process and then report your impressions. There may be something going on there.

Bob

 

[SmokeStack]

I have a book that mentions an alternative fermenting process. The author suggests making an aqueous solution of yeast by adding yeast and sugar to a bottle of distilled water and then letting it sit overnight. The following day, spray the tobacco leaf with the yeast solution and allow the leaf to sit for a while. I can see that this would breakdown the sugars as it would when making wine. I am not sure if yeast has other modes of action that would reduce the harshness or encourage aging. Have you heard of using yeast as a means to ferment tobacco?

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I have a book that mentions an alternative fermenting process. The author suggests making an aqueous solution of yeast by adding yeast and sugar to a bottle of distilled water and then letting it sit overnight. The following day, spray the tobacco leaf with the yeast solution and allow the leaf to sit for a while. I can see that this would breakdown the sugars as it would when making wine. I am not sure if yeast has other modes of action that would reduce the harshness or encourage aging. Have you heard of using yeast as a means to ferment tobacco?

I did this years ago... can't believe I fell for it. His theory was to add yeast and it would ferment the leaf. I guess he never realized that the leaf will ferment all by itself!

 

[Shawn622]

I am working with flue cured Virginias almost exclusively. And I am a pipe smoker. I don't think the flue cured leaf is any more bitey then the Virginia based pipe tobacco I buy from the retailer. All Virginias are bitey. It is why most pipe smokers start out with aromatics or English blends. At least that was my progression. Actually I skipped aros. yuk. I then only smoked English blends because the Virginia blends tore my mouth up. After I refined my smoking style I dropped the English blends and smoke almost exclusively Virginia and VaPer flake. I now smoke mostly flake that I make myself.

I was thinking about aging and came up with this. Maybe the sugar in the casing and the leaf itself are effected by wild air born yeast. Maybe the CO2 and alcohol that is produced when the yeast consumes the sugar is what changes the flavor of Virginias with age. There is something going on because the plugs I pressed 2 weeks ago taste way better and way smoother now then the day I pressed them and they keep getting better. The only thing I can attribute this to is the wild yeast theory. Any input?

 

[leverhead]

I've sent some of my flue-cured off to deluxestogie for independent opinion. It's just over one month old, it's changed allot in that time. Wild yeasts can give very different results with small changes in mineral content, salt and other things I can't figure out. I like to make bread and I love sour dough breads, but try to make San Francisco type sour dough away from that locale, I can't figure out whats different. I think if you like what you've got from whatever yeasts you've got, don't wash the container you store your plugs in. Maybe even think about breaking in a second. I think wild yeasts have cousins that travel with them, so you'll be feeding them also. Good luck and don't forget to write up your thoughts and conclusions.