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SmokeStack

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That will do it!:D I didn't think of that - when I get my tobacco ready, I'll be sure to contribute my review.
 

CoralReefs

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BarG, I'm not exactly sure either!:confused: I think my obsessive quest for knowledge results from a natural instinct that was instilled in me through many years of schooling.:)

But while were on the topic for knowledge, I propose we start a new topic on the forum - a tobacco review section. As we all know, there are a plethora of tobacco varieties, and it would be nice to refer to a review to see how each variety differs (in taste and other smoking characteristics). For example, this year when I went to purchase Burley seeds, I did not know what to buy - I just randomly chose a few varieties (Yellow Twist Bud, TN90, and Tennessee Red Leaf). Next year I am going to plant more Burley and I am not sure which seeds to buy - I was thinking about Green Brior or Harrow Velvet among many others. I know that the only way to be sure how a tobacco tastes like is to smoke it, but there are too many varieties to make this approach feasible. If forum members are willing to share their experiences by comparing and contrasting a few varieties, I am sure this information would be a valuable asset to the forum. What do you think?

Marco

Education will do that to you, especially when your educational background intersects with your hobbies.
 

Daniel

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Asking questions allows everyone to learn. Last year I had very few problems. this year getting plants started was a nightmare. It has resulted in one of the longest threads I have had to date with many people adding their thoughts and ideas. So far the final solution came from Bob and his efforts to come up with the best starting mix. It is now proven to be the solution since I started over 300 new plants in the ingredients he listed and they are possibly the best starts I have gotten in two years. Hopefully others will see that post in the future and benefit from it. the moral. "select your starting soil carefully it matters" After two years and hundreds of starts I am still dialing in the details of the first step. Well okay second step germinating the seed is the first step. But this is a good example of how taking things public helps many. It is hard to admit failure. But without looking closely at them much progress would never be made. Next year I'm growing tobacco like Chicken!!!
 

BarG

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Education will do that to you, especially when your educational background intersects with your hobbies.
Being a high school drop out does not mean a lack for the quest for knowledge in my case. I will continualy try to learn something new everyday and apply that knowledge to making for a better understanding of my particular intersts. I applaud all those who had the stamina to pursue any type of education.
 

johnlee1933

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Being a high school drop out does not mean a lack for the quest for knowledge in my case. I will continualy try to learn something new everyday and apply that knowledge to making for a better understanding of my particular intersts. I applaud all those who had the stamina to pursue any type of education.

There is something to be said for the school of hard knocks. My Grand Dad used to say "There's a lot of educated idiots." He left England still apprenticed in the woolens trade. He came to the States. Did anything honest to save money, bought a 1/3 share in a woolen blanket mill and retired owning it outright. Tough old bird. Out lived the doctor who said he should sit down after his first heart attack. He didn't. He followed a regimen of moderate exercise which is the standard treatment today. (Oh Yeah, number three killed him and he was fishing for trout in the Batten Kill with my Dad and I on the morning of that day.)

John
 

Rayshields

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John, I appreciated the story about your Grandfather. There is something bitter sweet about coming to the end of your life doing something that you love. My dad died 21 years ago coyote hunting. I am not sure if listening to music from his day trumped coyote hunting...it would be close, but I think the hunting topped his list of most loved things. I recently found a note to my Mom that Dad had scrawled on a piece of scrap paper. It said, "Be patient with me for a few more hunts, and I'll love you forever." Really tore me up.
 

BarG

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John, I appreciated the story about your Grandfather. There is something bitter sweet about coming to the end of your life doing something that you love. My dad died 21 years ago coyote hunting. I am not sure if listening to music from his day trumped coyote hunting...it would be close, but I think the hunting topped his list of most loved things. I recently found a note to my Mom that Dad had scrawled on a piece of scrap paper. It said, "Be patient with me for a few more hunts, and I'll love you forever." Really tore me up.

Thanks for that Ray. You guys put into words far better than I can and I certainly enjoyed.
 

BarG

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Tough old bird. Out lived the doctor who said he should sit down after his first heart attack. He didn't. He followed a regimen of moderate exercise which is the standard treatment today. (Oh Yeah, number three killed him and he was fishing for trout in the Batten Kill with my Dad and I on the morning of that day.)

John
That tough old bird must have carried through,eh John. Heh heh That is a great fathers day analogy. My condolences for losing your father. However I think a part of him is still with us.
 

Michibacy

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Being a high school drop out does not mean a lack for the quest for knowledge in my case. I will continualy try to learn something new everyday and apply that knowledge to making for a better understanding of my particular intersts. I applaud all those who had the stamina to pursue any type of education.

Same here BarG, I am going to college still to get a degree, but that doesn't mean you stop there. It's the reason I post and read on here, I read TheBlaze everyday and my homepage at home is set to Wikipedia. Enter a term, or hit random article and we're off.

Education doesn't need to be $5000 a semester, certified (monopolized) text books. experiment, talk to other, read, it's still education.
 

Grundle

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Same here BarG, I am going to college still to get a degree, but that doesn't mean you stop there. It's the reason I post and read on here, I read TheBlaze everyday and my homepage at home is set to Wikipedia. Enter a term, or hit random article and we're off.

Education doesn't need to be $5000 a semester, certified (monopolized) text books. experiment, talk to other, read, it's still education.

^This - Well said Michibacy. Let me elaborate a little more on this theme. A University degree is meaningless, yet if you want to find a position in a certain professional field, you must "buy" your way up. That is the most useful a degree is anymore. In many cases the amount you will make is directly proportional to how much you spend on the degree.

One of the worse days of my life was when I came to the realization that my Engineering degree was meaningless. Why was it meaningless? Because the frat boys who drunk their way through college while partying the whole time, were now out with Business degrees and they were my "managers". So here I sit with people who don't know anything, making more money than I do and to top it off they are telling me how to do my job. If there were true merit to my degree, then the person managing me would be another Engineer with the proper knowledge to ensure the projects are run smooth, and moving in the correct direction, but that does not happen. Instead there are boot-licking politicking morons who have their heads shoved so far up their fourth point of contact that they can't see the light of day.

Am I bitter? Well yes, it is obvious, but instead of chafing under the bit I will just change my situation and do something else. The most rewarding knowledge I have gained in my life, has always been outside of the University. The most useful skill I ever gained while being in University was the ability to track down and uncover the information I want. Once you have that nothing can stop you. People who ask for papers (degrees/certifications) are cloaking their own inability and laziness behind the pseudo-qualification some institution "granted" them. The best computer guy I know never spent a day in an institution of higher learning...

/getting off soapbox
 

Michibacy

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We all need those soap box moments.

I can see your view on this point, I'm going for a Law Enforcement/Homeland Security degree. Police Academy in less than a year. To go to this academy, I need a minimum of associates degree, so I get that, get my certification and all but 2 departments accept that certification so I'm set. But even THEN, I still will have people higher up than me telling me what to do that don't know what life is really like or what the lower class of the world really lives like.

It's what God has dealt us, it's up to us to live accordingly and change the world for the best
 

johnlee1933

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^This - Well said Michibacy. Let me elaborate a little more on this theme. A University degree is meaningless, yet if you want to find a position in a certain professional field, you must "buy" your way up. That is the most useful a degree is anymore. In many cases the amount you will make is directly proportional to how much you spend on the degree.

One of the worse days of my life was when I came to the realization that my Engineering degree was meaningless. Why was it meaningless? Because the frat boys who drunk their way through college while partying the whole time, were now out with Business degrees and they were my "managers". So here I sit with people who don't know anything, making more money than I do and to top it off they are telling me how to do my job. If there were true merit to my degree, then the person managing me would be another Engineer with the proper knowledge to ensure the projects are run smooth, and moving in the correct direction, but that does not happen. Instead there are boot-licking politicking morons who have their heads shoved so far up their fourth point of contact that they can't see the light of day.

Am I bitter? Well yes, it is obvious, but instead of chafing under the bit I will just change my situation and do something else. The most rewarding knowledge I have gained in my life, has always been outside of the University. The most useful skill I ever gained while being in University was the ability to track down and uncover the information I want. Once you have that nothing can stop you. People who ask for papers (degrees/certifications) are cloaking their own inability and laziness behind the pseudo-qualification some institution "granted" them. The best computer guy I know never spent a day in an institution of higher learning...

/getting off soapbox

Yep and somebody else paid for that piece of paper for them. I worked in research for ~ 30 years. I worked for/with some wonderful and brilliant people. I'm proud of some of the things we accomplished.
As time went on I got sick and tired of the BS and burnt out. I started a one man Handyman business. Ran it for 11 years before I retired. I earned a better living doing it too. If something went wrong I now knew exactly who to blame. ME! And I fixed it. Oh Yeah -- if things went well I got the credit and the $$'s. (All of it/them. No sharing with A holes who never did an honest days work in their lives. They even get someone else to play for them and then watch it on the tube.)

You are correct. College teaches you how to learn if you work at it. (WORK That's another term they don't seem to understand.)

Now I'll throw my soapbox alongside of yours.

John
 

SmokeStack

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Even though I received a PhD in chemistry, I do not consider it as a measure of intelligence or ability. Some of the most stupid people that I have ever meet hold a PhD. And some of the smartest people I know are the least educated.

My Mom's cousin in Italy did not make it past grade school in a rural town in Sicily. But over the years, his fascination and dedication with working on cars has eventually led him to a position at Ferrari as a senior engineer! He learned on his own - a very bright man.

There is something to be said about having a college degree - but it mostly translates into easily accessing a high-paying job.

Another example is a friend of mine - he never attended college. He helps me on rebuilding an engine in my '71 Lincoln Mark III. He is a self-taught mechanic - I am so impressed with his knowledge - he is modifying the 460 cid engine so that it gets above 500 hp - can't wait to get that rolling.

I hold high respect for such people. It's amazing that they can take an obsession and turn it into fruition. From my scholastic experience, I have learned: Bottom line is education does not equal intelligence. Don't get me wrong - I am a proponent of education - but I believe that intelligence can manifest itself in many other ways besides school.
 

Rayshields

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I am a Civil Engineer by education. The company I worked for had tons of Civils, but we were mostly in sales, management and construction. We had an old gentleman, Joe Spencer who had no advanced education. He worked for the company forty some years after taking a short fill in job for a "couple of weeks." Joe always got the job of designing stuff that no one else wanted to fool with. Our office in Birmingham was in a bad neighborhood and we had a string of break ins. I asked Joe to fix it. He bought two or three signs that said "Warning, this property is under electronic surveillance." He built two gray electrical boxes with a series of colored lights and a camera lens that made a bunch of different frequency beeps as the lights illuminated. Joe died one day after helping paint in the office. He carried the brown paint under his fingernails to his grave. I visited the office some 20 years later and the boxes were still lighting and beeping...no more brake ins.
 

johnlee1933

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Another example is a friend of mine - he never attended college. He helps me on rebuilding an engine in my '71 Lincoln Mark III. He is a self-taught mechanic - I am so impressed with his knowledge - he is modifying the 460 cid engine so that it gets above 500 hp - can't wait to get that rolling.

I hold high respect for such people. It's amazing that they can take an obsession and turn it into fruition. From my scholastic experience, I have learned: Bottom line is education does not equal intelligence. Don't get me wrong - I am a proponent of education - but I believe that intelligence can manifest itself in many other ways besides school.

Another example -- Child of a friend, male, low attention span, poor reading skills & math + discipline problems. He got fascinated with diesel engines. Today he is a premiere diesel trouble shooter. In the big trucking industry he is the "go to " guy. More power to him.

John
 

CoralReefs

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^This - Well said Michibacy. Let me elaborate a little more on this theme. A University degree is meaningless, yet if you want to find a position in a certain professional field, you must "buy" your way up. That is the most useful a degree is anymore. In many cases the amount you will make is directly proportional to how much you spend on the degree.

One of the worse days of my life was when I came to the realization that my Engineering degree was meaningless. Why was it meaningless? Because the frat boys who drunk their way through college while partying the whole time, were now out with Business degrees and they were my "managers". So here I sit with people who don't know anything, making more money than I do and to top it off they are telling me how to do my job. If there were true merit to my degree, then the person managing me would be another Engineer with the proper knowledge to ensure the projects are run smooth, and moving in the correct direction, but that does not happen. Instead there are boot-licking politicking morons who have their heads shoved so far up their fourth point of contact that they can't see the light of day.

Am I bitter? Well yes, it is obvious, but instead of chafing under the bit I will just change my situation and do something else. The most rewarding knowledge I have gained in my life, has always been outside of the University. The most useful skill I ever gained while being in University was the ability to track down and uncover the information I want. Once you have that nothing can stop you. People who ask for papers (degrees/certifications) are cloaking their own inability and laziness behind the pseudo-qualification some institution "granted" them. The best computer guy I know never spent a day in an institution of higher learning...

/getting off soapbox

Two words: "Dilbert Comics"
 

CoralReefs

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Even though I received a PhD in chemistry, I do not consider it as a measure of intelligence or ability. Some of the most stupid people that I have ever meet hold a PhD. And some of the smartest people I know are the least educated.

My Mom's cousin in Italy did not make it past grade school in a rural town in Sicily. But over the years, his fascination and dedication with working on cars has eventually led him to a position at Ferrari as a senior engineer! He learned on his own - a very bright man.

There is something to be said about having a college degree - but it mostly translates into easily accessing a high-paying job.

Another example is a friend of mine - he never attended college. He helps me on rebuilding an engine in my '71 Lincoln Mark III. He is a self-taught mechanic - I am so impressed with his knowledge - he is modifying the 460 cid engine so that it gets above 500 hp - can't wait to get that rolling.

I hold high respect for such people. It's amazing that they can take an obsession and turn it into fruition. From my scholastic experience, I have learned: Bottom line is education does not equal intelligence. Don't get me wrong - I am a proponent of education - but I believe that intelligence can manifest itself in many other ways besides school.

Agreed, but lets look at the facts. In a technical discipline such as chemistry, physics, mathematics, etc... It is certainly possible to teach yourself the equivalent of a Ph. D. in that field (I can think of one example, maybe two in mathematics), but lets face it- if your goal is a discipline like Math, the hobbiest route is not the way to go. Very very few hobbiests make it and I think it is simply due to the nature of the discipline itself.

I do agree that education does not equal intelligence- in fact I would even take that a step further and argue that the notion of intelligence is fundamentally flawed. IE Intelligence does not equal success, it just gives you an artificial measure of likelihood to succeed in mental tasks. I also agree that intelligence manifests itself in different ways. Many of the modern intelligence tests actually take that into account.

The ability to teach oneself a discipline is a function of many things including natural raw skill, education from others, education from self (which is always a component of the college experience), and simply choosing the correct learning strategy. Is college nessasary? I would say sometimes, sometimes not. Is the degree useless? In the case mentioned above it was useless in the sense that it did not produce the desired outcome.

My case: My degree is in theoretical (as opposed to applied) Mathematics yet I work as a software developer. Almost everything I know about software development is self taught and largly learned before I set foot on university soil. Full circle. Is my degree useless? In the sense that it is underutilized maybe, but how I approach software design is not how a software engineer would approach it. I approach it as a Mathematician would. Now, although much of what I know about software development was present before persuing a math degree, what education has done is refine my skills and made me fundamentally better at what I do. Part of the educational experience is not the learning of the specific information but rather the paradigm. I would not likely think about Math, Software, Physics, etc.... the same way if I had been purely self taught. Conversely, I also doubt I would think about it as I do if I was purely University taught (especially my univerisity which is one of the top engineering universities in the world- so lots of boxy thinking...). Both are part of the process.
 

SmokeStack

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Agreed, but lets look at the facts. In a technical discipline such as chemistry, physics, mathematics, etc... It is certainly possible to teach yourself the equivalent of a Ph. D. in that field (I can think of one example, maybe two in mathematics), but lets face it- if your goal is a discipline like Math, the hobbiest route is not the way to go. Very very few hobbiests make it and I think it is simply due to the nature of the discipline itself.

I do agree that education does not equal intelligence- in fact I would even take that a step further and argue that the notion of intelligence is fundamentally flawed. IE Intelligence does not equal success, it just gives you an artificial measure of likelihood to succeed in mental tasks. I also agree that intelligence manifests itself in different ways. Many of the modern intelligence tests actually take that into account.

The ability to teach oneself a discipline is a function of many things including natural raw skill, education from others, education from self (which is always a component of the college experience), and simply choosing the correct learning strategy. Is college nessasary? I would say sometimes, sometimes not. Is the degree useless? In the case mentioned above it was useless in the sense that it did not produce the desired outcome.

My case: My degree is in theoretical (as opposed to applied) Mathematics yet I work as a software developer. Almost everything I know about software development is self taught and largly learned before I set foot on university soil. Full circle. Is my degree useless? In the sense that it is underutilized maybe, but how I approach software design is not how a software engineer would approach it. I approach it as a Mathematician would. Now, although much of what I know about software development was present before persuing a math degree, what education has done is refine my skills and made me fundamentally better at what I do. Part of the educational experience is not the learning of the specific information but rather the paradigm. I would not likely think about Math, Software, Physics, etc.... the same way if I had been purely self taught. Conversely, I also doubt I would think about it as I do if I was purely University taught (especially my univerisity which is one of the top engineering universities in the world- so lots of boxy thinking...). Both are part of the process.

Well said Coral. Great to have a mathematician on board. I love math - I got a healthy dose of it as a chemistry major - I can't do without it!:)

I am starting to believe that education is becoming an industry - from getting student loans, buying incredibly expensive textbooks, the high cost of tuition, etc. Also, I agree that much of what is learned can be self-taught. But I don't mean to come down so harsh on education. I value my educational experience with conducting research and executing experiments. Learning how to make advances in the scientific disciplines through research and experimentation is not something that can be self-taught. Writing papers for publication, designing experiments, and learning the skills needed to make contributions to the scientific community are not things you'll find in textbooks or by taking classes. For chemistry, it means spending endless hours in the lab, keeping on top of the current literature, learning how to write and submit articles for publication, etc. In any case, I enjoyed my education and perhaps that's the best thing about it!;)

Smoke
 
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