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Buck's 2018 blog

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#21
They are growing however I've noticed the top leaves getting thicker and wrinkly and sticky.
From the close up picture is that looking like it's going to flower already, don't remember seeing leaves that close together until end of the season when it's starting to bud ?



View attachment 23912 View attachment 23913
I think they look pretty healthy. That sea soil is really good, and I regret not using it with my seedlings this year. My intuition tells me you have a great mix that will pay off. Are you sure about the numbers? I thought the sea soil was around 2% potassium. If those numbers you mentioned are correct, you need to add potassium in the neighborhood of 3g per bucket.
 

deluxestogie

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#22
My initial thought was that this is frenching, which is a vague growth inhibition of leaf lamina and linear expansion. A lacy pattern of chlorosis (loss of chlorophyll) also appears. It can be caused by a toxin produced by an overgrowth of Bacillus cereus in the soil, as well as by deficiency in various minerals (or unsuitably high soil pH, which can inhibit absorption and utilization of certain minerals). Poorly drained soil may promote frenching.

Bagged soils that have been sterilized will tend to overgrow B. cereus.

...low soil nitrogen, low acidity and high phosphate tended to increase frenching.

Acidity and abundant nitrate diminished or prevented frenching of the plants...

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01666124
Images: https://www.ipmimages.org/browse/subthumb.cfm?sub=6964&area=62

On the other hand, the changes you are seeing could be early symptoms of a viral pathogen. Such a possibility will be easier to identify with time.

Suggestions:
  1. Make sure the buckets have adequate drain holes.
  2. Give them a modest dose of fertilizer.
  3. Consider obtaining a simple soil test kit that could measure soil pH.
Bob
 

buck

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#24
This is what I found out so far about Sea Soil, PH I saw on a posting says 6.7 2.1-0.16-0.05. I put 1/3 of a bag in each bucket (1/3 sea soil, 1/3MG and 1/3 soil I had left over).. I know kind of funny mixing organic soil with Miracle grow but I had this stuff left over from another project.

Miracle Grow has a PH of 6.5 and 0.21 - 0.11 - 0.16 and the other 1/3 of the soil I added I don't know the PH of it or nutrients, but trying to find that out.

I'll get a PH meter or kit to double check the PH, but it should be in the proper range.

I planted them about 18 days ago and didn't think I would need to fertilize for a while.

So you think a dose of 20-10-20 should be added ?
 
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#25
This is what I found out so far about Sea Soil, PH I saw on a posting says 6.7 2.1-0.16-0.05. I put 1/3 of a bag in each bucket (1/3 sea soil, 1/3MG and 1/3 soil I had left over).. I know kind of funny mixing organic soil with Miracle grow but I had this stuff left over from another project.

Miracle Grow has a PH of 6.5 and 0.21 - 0.11 - 0.16 and the other 1/3 of the soil I added I don't know the PH of it or nutrients, but trying to find that out.

I'll get a PH meter or kit to double check the PH, but it should be in the proper range.

I planted them about 18 days ago and didn't think I would need to fertilize for a while.

So you think a dose of 20-10-20 should be added ?
I don't. I can't give you a full proof, but here goes. Nitrogen deficiency would present with pale leaves, which you don't have, and your soil formula looks like it has good nitrogen. You might have potassium deficiency. There are cheap test kits available at nurseries if you want to confirm it.
https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/tobacco-potassium-deficiency
Potassium deficiency symptoms begin as a mild chlorosis and mottling of the leaf margin. Since K is vital to leaf expansion, the edge of the foliage curls in and downward, resulting in an umbrella like shape
If so, I would add a pure potassium source. I have potassium sulfate 0-0-50. If the potassium is truly deficient, I would add 4 to 6g per bucket over the course of a few weeks. Recommendations for potassium are in the neighborhood of 200 to 300lbs per acre. This works out to 2 to 3 g per square foot. Your buckets are a square foot(ish), and because potash is only 50% nitrogen, you have to add twice as much (4-6g) to get 2-3g per square foot. You would add it by dissolving it in a large amount of water, say 1g per liter, and just keep track of how many litres you've added while watering.

Potassium requirements for tobacco are actually about twice the nitrogen requirements, so the odds are that if anything is deficient, it's not nitrogen.

Next year, consider sea soil potting mix. It has 0.2% potassium.
 

buck

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#26
Here are the results of the soil sample tests.


Left pic, vile with the red cap is PH sample from the bucket grow (looks like in between 6-6.5), green cap is from my garden and is neutral (growing two tobacco plants, snow peas, potato)

The pic on the right is the NPK of the bucket soil

High N, High P, and Low K.



IMG_20180623_193234.jpg IMG_20180624_112017.jpg




Green Vile I think I should Decrease the PH Value, maybe a little on the PH from my buckets to try and hit 5.5-6.5 ?
Will Aluminum Sulphate work and how much do I put in ?

What do I do about the low K ?

I'll get the NPK values from garden soil a bit later on ..


Thanks
 
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#27
Will Aluminum Sulphate work and how much do I put in ?

What do I do about the low K ?

I'll get the NPK values from garden soil a bit later on ..


Thanks
K is potassium, so I stand by my original instructions.

The directions that come with the aluminum sulphate says 3mL in a litre of water, Every two to three weeks for hydrangeas. I don't know what math that represents, but those instructions should be safe.
 

buck

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#28
K is potassium, so I stand by my original instructions.

I'll get some potassium Nitrate and start with that.

The directions that come with the aluminum sulphate says 3mL in a litre of water, Every two to three weeks for hydrangeas. I don't know what math that represents, but those instructions should be safe.
The Ph is a little on the low side so but not much so I may not want to fiddle too much with PH.

That takes care of the bucket grow, the ones in my garden however requires a more aggressive approach.

N=very low, P=very high, K=very low, PH +7 shown a few posts back vile with green cap

I've got some 24-8-16 fert that would fix the deficiencies but should I be concerned that this would add more P to the already high levels or should I get separate fert like bloodmeal for N and I'll get potassium Nitrate anyway for the bucket grow for K. ?

For PH I'll have to decrease that value from 7+ to at least 5.5-6 ..

IMG_20180624_204055.jpg
 

buck

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#30
As ChinaVoodoo mentioned as as instructed on the aluminum sulphate container says 3mL in a litre of water, Every two to three weeks to turn Hydrangeas blue.
The optimum soil pH range for hydrangeas to produce blue flowers is between 4.5 and 5.5 which is a bit low for typical garden soil, 5.5-6.5 would be better so need to be careful in how much I put especially in buckets if I decide to do that.
In the garden I won't worry as much but I'll stick to one does every three weeks and retest a week later.

I read the following, If potash content is low and needs correcting, 3 pounds potassium for every 1,000 square feet of soil.
 

burge

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#31
So what if you were just to buy some potash? What fertilizer is close the soil in your area should be rich in nutrients
 
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#32
As ChinaVoodoo mentioned as as instructed on the aluminum sulphate container says 3mL in a litre of water, Every two to three weeks to turn Hydrangeas blue.
The optimum soil pH range for hydrangeas to produce blue flowers is between 4.5 and 5.5 which is a bit low for typical garden soil, 5.5-6.5 would be better so need to be careful in how much I put especially in buckets if I decide to do that.
In the garden I won't worry as much but I'll stick to one does every three weeks and retest a week later.

I read the following, If potash content is low and needs correcting, 3 pounds potassium for every 1,000 square feet of soil.
Good thing you looked up the hydrangea data. So, half that? I followed those directions for my blueberries and after 4 days, they look much better.

3lbs K per 1000 square feet is equal to 1.4g per square foot.
 

Jitterbugdude

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#33
I'll get a PH meter or kit to double check the PH, but it should be in the proper range.
If you do, make sure you buy calibration solutions. Typically you would use a high pH and a low pH. Every spring I pull my meter out and it is out of calibration from the previous year.

Additionally, you should consider sending your soil out for a soil test that tests more than just NPK. Your pH issues are most likely due to an excess or deficiency of some nutrient. You won't know which one(s) until you have a more complete analyses.
 

buck

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#34
I guess I need to prepare better for next year, checklist would be good to have.
I took recommendations from members here and made sure I wasn't overwatering, introduced more acidity in the soil a bit (need to test end of next week), added potassium where needed and other fert in other patches as required.
Plants look better, less frenching. Interesting thing is looking at past blogs the same happened to the PA red I planted in my first year, seems like that type is more likely to French or have leaf deformity, or could just be my seeds.


I also noticed some indication of a bud forming on some plants, is that too early ? Been in buckets since the first week of June.



IMG_0009.JPG IMG_0010.JPG
 

buck

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#35
Based on the last picture below how long before they flower?
The first pic shows a leaf that has some abnormal spotting, the middle two pictures is how the leaf grew, this was on one of the plants that exhibited some Frenching but that has now stopped.





IMG_0024.JPG IMG_0026.JPG IMG_0027.JPG IMG_0028.JPG
 

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Charly

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#36
Hello Buck,
When I see your first picture, it reminds me some of my own leaves, infected by PVY - potato virus Y, when they show the first symptoms....
 

buck

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#37
Hello Buck,
When I see your first picture, it reminds me some of my own leaves, infected by PVY - potato virus Y, when they show the first symptoms....
That may be possible, those two plants are growing next to potatoes.. The only space I had in the garden.
 

Charly

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#38
Potatoes as well as tomatoes and tobacco are hosts for the different strains of PVY.
With this link you will learn more about this disease : http://ephytia.inra.fr/en/C/10814/Tobacco-Potato-virus-Y-PVY

PVY is transmitted by aphyds : "Aphids usually come from outside the field and transmit the virus during brief punctures"

The best you can do if you have this disease in your region is to grow resistant tobacco strains.
 
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