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Whole Leaf Tobacco

Deer's tongue

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#1
Deer's tongue is a type of grass used in some pipe tobacco blends. There is a small jar of it at my local tobacconist. They might add a pinch of it to a pound of a blend. It has a coumarin type flavor to it, like sweetgrass. I tried to emulate this by putting zubrowka in some tobacco. It turned out fairly nice. Oddly, it smelled like apples; strange because zubrowka is often mixed with apple juice or cider.

I was wondering if anyone has grown deer's tongue, and whether it requires a curing process, or if it is simply dried out.
 

SmokeStack

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#4
I have bought Deer Tongue from 4noggins.com. Used sparingly, it imparts a vanilla-like aroma to tobacco. It's been a while, but I would add a little to pipe tobacco. I found that it does not go well with Latakia blends. It doesn't smell exactly like vanilla - it has a slight "herbaceous" (for a lack of a better word) scent.

At the time I purchased the Deer Tongue, I considered growing a little myself. I would imagine that it needs only drying. The flavor constituents are already present in the leaf at harvest time, so a fermentation process or other curing process would not be required. I assumed that it was only dried, but I could be wrong. That's an interesting question that deserves attention. I will look into it. If I find anything, I will post it here.
 

Ben Brand

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#5
ArizonaDave I was with you on that one. Not a big offal eater, and thought, how can people eat deer tongue! and I`m sure some people do.
ChinaVoodoo enjoy the Deer`s tongue TOBACCO!!
 

Jitterbugdude

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#6
I use it in a lot of my mixes at about 5 to 10%. I buy mine from Penn Herb because it is shredded. I'm pretty sure the 4Noggins stuff is powdered, which doesn't seem like it would mix well with shredded tobacco. It makes a great addition to a VaPer and unlike SmokeStack I think it adds a nice flavor to a Latakia blend.
 

Bex

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#7
It's actually a kind of lettuce, so I would imagine that if you are getting it dried, it has been put through a dehydrator or similar. Some info here, and you can get seeds on the internet:
http://myfolia.com/plants/6-lettuce-lactuca-sativa/varieties/130335-amish-deer-tongue

I was hoping this was what you were talking about - I still have visions of large tongues (cow) in our local deli, looking out at you from behind the glass cabinet from when I was a kid, and my mother forcing me to eat this. A recurring nightmare....;)
 

Grumpa

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#8
It's actually a kind of lettuce, so I would imagine that if you are getting it dried, it has been put through a dehydrator or similar. Some info here, and you can get seeds on the internet:
http://myfolia.com/plants/6-lettuce-lactuca-sativa/varieties/130335-amish-deer-tongue

I was hoping this was what you were talking about - I still have visions of large tongues (cow) in our local deli, looking out at you from behind the glass cabinet from when I was a kid, and my mother forcing me to eat this. A recurring nightmare....;)
That is not the correct deertongue for tobacco. Look here: http://ncpedia.org/deertongue It is more of a grass.
 
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#10
Oh my. I just realized that there are now at least three plants called Deer's tongue. The lettuce, the grass, and the herb, Trilisa odoratissima. I always thought it was the grass, Panicum. Cool, thanks Grumpa, you just saved me the price of grass seed.
 

ArizonaDave

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#11
Oh my. I just realized that there are now at least three plants called Deer's tongue. The lettuce, the grass, and the herb, Trilisa odoratissima. I always thought it was the grass, Panicum. Cool, thanks Grumpa, you just saved me the price of grass seed.
Well, I'd have to say, I've learned more on FTT than I have other places. I'm not saying that I'd never try this, I'd just have to take time to read these articles in depth, and consider them further. Sometimes I'm more of a naturalist when it comes to Tobacco, but haven't ruled out natural remedies to flavor, IF it doesn't add harmful effects by additives. Interesting thread, that I'll continue to follow and become more knowledgable.
 

Grumpa

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#13
So, I gather that the correct Deertongue for tobacco blending is Trilisa odoratissima, as stated in the link provided by Grumpa (http://ncpedia.org/deertongue). I don't see a vendor for seed in the US.

Bob
i think this is it. There is no specific variety stated but the description matches. I know I have found seed available with the specific variety listed but can't seem to find it again. I'll keep looking.

https://www.roundstoneseed.com/wildflower-seed/deer-tongue-plant.asp
 

deluxestogie

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#15
About half-way down this page: http://www.jeffpippen.com/plants/carphephorus.htm, there is a listing with an image for "Deer's-tongue, Vanillaleaf (Carphephorus odoratissimus, Trilisa odoratissima) Craven Co., NC."

Going by this scant evidence (but from the correct location!) the Deerstongue that is blended with tobacco goes by two different Latin binomials:
  • Carphephorus odoratissimus
  • Trilisa odoratissima
The University of South Florida presents the following synonyms (and the publication date) for this same plant :
(http://www.florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/Plant.aspx?id=3092#synonym)
  • Carphephorus odoratissimus (1968)
  • Chrysocoma odoratissima (1792)
  • Liatris amplexicaulis (1836)
  • Liatris odoratissima (1803)
  • Trilisa odoratissima (1828)
The seed offered here: https://www.roundstoneseed.com/wildflower-seed/deer-tongue-plant.asp, indicates on a different page (https://www.roundstoneseed.com/seedlist.asp) that the "Deer Tongue Plant" (as opposed to the "Deer Tongue Grass") is in fact Carphephorus odoratissmus. So, you have found the right one, Grumpa. Nice work.

Bob

EDIT: It is listed as a perennial, but is probably frost sensitive, and would need to be seeded annually in colder areas. Seed packet $2.50 plus $2 shipping.
 
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#18
I'm going to order from Roundstone too. Thanks for finding that. It was harder to track down than i thought. I would prefer to order from a real business, like roundstone; I did find that Amazon has it too, however. http://www.amazon.com/Carphephorus-odoratissimus-Certified-Seed-Native/dp/B00BJ93ODQ

I think it will be interesting, not only to have deers tongue, but also to try different processing methods with it. I think it will make the yard smell nice too.
 
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#20
Although it is clearly important to make informed decisions, I would take the warnings in that article with a deal of skepticism. Coumarin is a blood anti-coagulant, (scary!), It is in cinnamon, and strawberries also, and one of the reasons they are concerned is because it will change the effectiveness of medications like warfarin (which is derived from it). From their perspective, using coumarin negates the benefit of having a standardized dose of warfarin, or aspirin, as it throws an unknown into the equation.

You will find the same warnings about licorice, because it affects medications. From big pharma perspective, these natural sources of mildly effective plants are a threat to the bottom line, and need to be demonized, not better understood. And remember, although we are not dairy cows, consider the amount of coumarin found in clover and alfalfa silage.
 
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