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Whole Leaf Tobacco

my 1st try at making chew and the problems

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#1
This is what I did: I took 6 seco tobacco leaves and washed them. Then I boiled some water with coffee flavored liqueur and put some vanilla in it. I stirred the mix and boiled it and then I added the tobacco leaves and mixed that in the solution stirring it. After about 5 minutes of that process I set the mix aside and let it cool. Then I took the leaves out of the pot and put them in a plastic sealed bag and let them sit overnight. Then the next morning I took the leaves out and let them dry. Then I cut the leaves up into shreds and tried a little. There was no taste and the chew didn't have any kind of moist gummy quality that I would get like when buying a box of chew. So what did I do wrong and what do I need to do to make a chew that would have the characteristics of Red Man or of the like?
 

SmokesAhoy

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#2
If you boiled the leaves it will make them firm.

If you make just enough sauce to hydrate bone dry leaf it should soak it up and leave it soft.

Of course the companies probably use syrups and things like pg and sweeteners to affect mouth feel.

Should add some salt if you didn't already.

I've only had pouch tobacco a couple times, and the flavor was clearly some combination of smoke molasses and maybe anise. Even sweet needs salt though, so add a dash.

With them trying to be health conscious these days the molasses is probably subbed out with a combination of glycerine, pg, artificial sweeteners, etc.

Just remember not to actually boil your leaf. I'm only guessing here but if you want to experiment destem a couple leaves, slice into the size cut you want your end product to be, take a tablespoon molasses, tablespoon soy sauce, half a teaspoon smoke flavor, maybe 5 drops anise extract, half a teaspoon high pH such as sodium carbonate, mix this in a cup real good. Put the shredded tobacco in the oven on 200 to dry out real good for like 5 minutes. When it crumbles let it cool down and gently get it into a zip lock. Put the sauce in the microwave for like 10 seconds and mix it good, then dribble over the shred in the bag stop when it's coated but before it's swimming, close the bag and let it sit in the frig overnight.

I haven't made this I'm just guessing at a recipe, the idea being if you like it you can try subbing ingredients. First thing I'd change would be to find a sugar replacement.

Maybe jbd will share a recipe, I've read his over the years and they sound good. Also workhorse shared one that was good, can't find the link though.
 

SmokesAhoy

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#4
I'd be especially wary of ordering the tobacco material from them. They state outright it is untaxed and illegal. Bad things come to those that steal from the most powerful Mafia in the world.
 

RyanM22

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#6
This is what I did: I took 6 seco tobacco leaves and washed them. Then I boiled some water with coffee flavored liqueur and put some vanilla in it. I stirred the mix and boiled it and then I added the tobacco leaves and mixed that in the solution stirring it. After about 5 minutes of that process I set the mix aside and let it cool. Then I took the leaves out of the pot and put them in a plastic sealed bag and let them sit overnight. Then the next morning I took the leaves out and let them dry. Then I cut the leaves up into shreds and tried a little. There was no taste and the chew didn't have any kind of moist gummy quality that I would get like when buying a box of chew. So what did I do wrong and what do I need to do to make a chew that would have the characteristics of Red Man or of the like?
I'd suggest taking whatever liquid flavoring you want to use and boiling it down so it becomes more of a syrup. Then stir in your leaf. A lot of syrup isn't needed though. The water isn't needed either, it just thins out the flavoring and makes it less potent/concentrated.

Glycerin is a big ingredient. It adds to mouthfeel and adds a little tack as well. You can add this to your liquid, or afterwards.

One last thing - tasting your chew a day after you make it is setting yourself up for disappointment. The leaf takes at least a few days to really soak up all the flavors. As long as you can stay away from mold, chew ages very well.
 

Knucklehead

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#7
I'd be especially wary of ordering the tobacco material from them. They state outright it is untaxed and illegal. Bad things come to those that steal from the most powerful Mafia in the world.
Reference material untaxed and illegal?
Duh. I thought the reference material was paperwork. Apparently it's the tobacco product. I guess I should read more.
 

deluxestogie

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#8
The recipes (from the NCSU links) may be helpful to those interested in smokeless. The "Reference Material" is pouches of tobacco made to those recipes, and is intended for research labs, so they can compare their analytic results with those of other labs.

Bob
 

Smokin Harley

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#9
I'd be especially wary of ordering the tobacco material from them. They state outright it is untaxed and illegal. Bad things come to those that steal from the most powerful Mafia in the world.
I think that since it is coming from a university research department they cannot actually "sell" tobacco products (for profit) intended for human consumption without the proper licensing. Their disclaimer against legal human consumption is only a written legal loophole.
Such as case in point when you go to the Jack Daniel's distillery it is located in a dry county and therefore whiskey can not legally be sold there. However in the recent years they have looked into the legal loophole and sell a custom engraved bottle and they fill it for free. Its all in how you market something (like research reference material ) and how the end product may in fact be distributed in a legal manner because of wording.
 

SmokesAhoy

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#10
Yeah, I'm sure it's wording, still, wouldn't want to be a test case. Especially when we have all the tobacco we could want affordably through wlt or homegrown. The recipes are worth way more than a few grams of tobacco though, tells you exactly how to make it minus the specifics which are available here such as seasoning and process.

I looked at the pH values for the various recipes though and noted they were all very close to neutral, does anyone think that is because American products are like that normally or because the test samples have sat a while before measuring and the acids in the leaf and sauce have neutralized the very specific amount of alkali?
 

Smokin Harley

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#11
I think you may be missing the point just a little. I doubt very much they are sending these out to use the public as guinea pigs or test cases. I believe the recipes they have come up with have been tested and proven in a "laboratory situation" (nudge nudge , wink wink) again, as a university they can not actually sell their end result and therefore have to "dispose of it" without a profit. Its a college in North Carolina...the test lab very well could be a John Deere tractor,bass boat,deer stand or duck blind.
If you think about it , in a technical term, your cigar blending /rolling station -even though it may be a basement , shed ,dinner table or spare bedroom...is a test laboratory.
Can you sell your home rolled cigars? In the U.S without proper licensing and taxing, Legally ,no. But you can distribute them free and your buddies can donate anonymously to the blending experimentation(as a handling fee)...as in "Hey , who took my cigars and left this crisp $10 bill??? "
 

deluxestogie

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#12
I would encourage FTT members to not embarrass themselves (and FTT) by attempting to order the smokeless materials from NCSU, which is a world-recognized, major research university, a hub of tobacco genetics research, and the USDA ARS-GRIN repository for the Nicotiana spp. germplasm bank. The curator of that seed bank is a member of FTT.

Bob
 

2Baccy

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greenmonster714

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#15
I make snus all the time but have not tried plug/chewing tobacco yet. However, I would do the same process as making snus except the leaf would be much bigger.

A common mixture for chew is cooked down apple juice...reduced to a sludge. Add molasses and the large grain kosher salt. A small amount of PG can be added after it cools but just a little. Ya don't want wet chew. Salt is important. It gets the saliva production rolling. I'll use about 1/3cup of salt for 300g of dry tobacco in my solution before cooking. That may seem like a lot but it all comes together nicely in the end product.

There are recipes on YouTube. To me they seem a bit incomplete because they fail to process the tobacco.

Check out squeezysjohns post on snus and you'll see what I mean about tobacco processing. One step is to add calcium carbonate which effects the delivery of nicotine. I've never found a recipe on YouTube that covers those steps and they are pretty important steps.

I think when I get home from my OH visit I'll make some chewing tobacco. I like a nice chew now n then.
 
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