• Dear Guest,

    We've been using a forum format called vBulletin for over seven years and the program is no longer being developed, so that means no more updates or security patches. vBulletin has never been compatible with search engine optimization and it does not support the multitude of various devices most people use to access the internet, so it's time to say goodbye to vBulletin.

    For these reasons we have moved our forum to a new format that will support and encourage growth for the next generation of grower and DIY tobacco users.

    So please post any issues you're having with using the new site.

    As usual, you may login with your old password.

Whole Leaf Tobacco

Toasted or cavendish ???

Smokin Harley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2,573
Likes
99
Points
48
Location
Grant ,Alabama
#23
jars are cooling off. got the little dutch in the pressure cooker still. I refilled it up to touch the jar bottom and put the weight on the 10 lb setting. Its rattling like crazy now for almost another half hour. Might let that go another hour and a half . I don't want to leave the house but I have things I need to get for dinner.
Hard to tell, the tobacco in the jars that were in the pot of boiling water is darker but taking in the fact the tobacco is wet ... I don't see a whole lot of difference.
The smell of each is definitely different , more so in the Criollo98 ,sweeter and mellower. The Va Gold is still grassy but its not as sour as when it started. Madole didn't change much at all.
I dont know , maybe I need to do it some more, or just toast it . A lot of variables as to what it needs and what I need to do.
 

Smokin Harley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2,573
Likes
99
Points
48
Location
Grant ,Alabama
#24
ok, well, Just as I hit post..the rattler quit ,so it must be out of water. So I shut that off and now waiting for it to cool and I'll check it .
 
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
3,010
Likes
446
Points
83
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
#25
jars are cooling off. got the little dutch in the pressure cooker still. I refilled it up to touch the jar bottom and put the weight on the 10 lb setting. Its rattling like crazy now for almost another half hour. Might let that go another hour and a half . I don't want to leave the house but I have things I need to get for dinner.
Hard to tell, the tobacco in the jars that were in the pot of boiling water is darker but taking in the fact the tobacco is wet ... I don't see a whole lot of difference.
The smell of each is definitely different , more so in the Criollo98 ,sweeter and mellower. The Va Gold is still grassy but its not as sour as when it started. Madole didn't change much at all.
I dont know , maybe I need to do it some more, or just toast it . A lot of variables as to what it needs and what I need to do.
You're supposed to turn the heat way down when it starts rattling. As long as it rattles a few times every minute, you know the pressure/temp are still at their maximum. More rattling serves no purpose other that wasting water. Its trying to get hotter, but the escaping steam cold it off.
 

Smokin Harley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2,573
Likes
99
Points
48
Location
Grant ,Alabama
#29
No, actually what I was doing was a basic hot canning ,but longer term. The only "liquid" be it water or otherwise that actually touched the leaf was only what I had added to the jar itself before the heating process. But that method went south as the safety plug in the lid of the pressure cooker popped. I had to resort to another long term high heat method that involves my kiln ,an electric roaster , sand and the jars of moist leaf.
The roaster has its own thermostat controller. I have it set at just above 200*F so I can control the high temperature via the digital controller . The roaster pan is filled with simple cheap play sand to act as a heat sink as sorts .Had I filled the pan with water , it would eventually evaporate and would require refilling and opening of the kiln ,which would also result in a loss of the heat I need ,vicious circle,right? So, I chose sand as my heat sink medium.
The sand surrounds the jars placed in it and the heat from the sand heats the closed jars fairly evenly. So far , so good.
I let the leaf filled jars heat in this for a few days , only yesterday when I removed the jars and emptied them of their contents I noticed some of the leaf at the bottom of the jars became a little scorched and hard, maybe just caramelized sugars within the leaf. I am not sure at this point but on the next session , I plan to lower the temperature on the roaster thermostat to just below 200*F , referencing the 90*C or 190*F of another members trials.
Anyway , the results were very much within my expectations aside from the heavy caramelization of some of the leaf. I have the nearly black leaf (typical cavendish color)under pressure in my wooden flake brick mould since yesterday. A lot of dark sweet smelling liquid pressed out . I have not drained that off. I'll let that reabsorb and dry the leaf in the oven or stove top before further cutting or slicing. I'll let it press until I think Thursday which would be 3 days.
 

Smokin Harley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2,573
Likes
99
Points
48
Location
Grant ,Alabama
#30
so this morning was day 3 after pressing my steamed cavendish varieties.
Madole#1- which was only color cured ,kilned one month last year, and then aged in a vapor proof bag for one year.
Madole#2- from the same batch as above but was steamed in a jar in a pressure cooker until the pressure cooker broke.
Little Dutch -same as Madole #2
Mystery leaf - who knows what I have in there . Might have a little Criollo 98 in there.
The jar of straight Criollo98 molded on me before I could press it. Trashed.
I had small amounts (pint jars,half full) of the Madoles and Mystery leaf. The Little Dutch was a fairly full medium packed quart jar.
So instead of doing an individual pressing to come out thin, I piggybacked them in the poplar wooden press with pieces of parchment paper between the varieties . The juice that came up under pressure has since absorbed into the wood ,seasoning it. I also noticed I must have had some good pressure on it , the sides of the box have been pushed out slightly but noticeable. It has a very deep dark brown almost walnut stained look to it and a wonderful sweet cocoa aroma to it. Instead of breaking the box down to pull the brick , I took the clamps off and just placed it on the top shelf of the kiln .I'll keep it in there a couple days to finish drying before I pull the brick. Its been holding 120-123*F pretty good last few days,just heat ,no moisture.
Our daytime temps are going to hit bottom soon, sub zero with wind chills in the minus 30-40's ,thanks to the polar vortex.
 

Smokin Harley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2,573
Likes
99
Points
48
Location
Grant ,Alabama
#31
I took the pressed bricks out of the kiln last night just before bed. Wife was curious what I was doing , so I had her give them a sniff...she was amazed at the aroma of them. sweet and cocoa'ey. I chopped off a couple thin slices of the Little Dutch that I had pre-treated with the cocktail of whiskey,coffee rum, honey and vanilla. I let them dry overnight . I'll give it a little rubbing and then give it a try in the pipe later on today.
I'm getting a better idea of what to do with my cigar leaf after processing this for pipe tobacco. It makes a bit more sense of the Pilon aging process. Moisture,pressure,time. When I kilned my cigar leaf last year I hung it up ...I'm now thinking of just packing a big wooden box of lightly misted leaf as tightly as possible and kiln it. I think plastic should not be used because of the moisture retention and temperature barrier...condensation and cold spots .
Still in the theory process of this.
 

jojjas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
372
Likes
69
Points
28
Location
Skövde , Sweden
#32
..........

It makes a bit more sense of the Pilon aging process. Moisture,pressure,time. When I kilned my cigar leaf last year I hung it up ...I'm now thinking of just packing a big wooden box of lightly misted leaf as tightly as possible and kiln it. I think plastic should not be used because of the moisture retention and temperature barrier...condensation and cold spots .
Still in the theory process of this.
Interesting idea , please try it and come up with results , and Deluxestogie what´s your opinion about this
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
12,548
Likes
1,390
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
#33
A pilon on cigar leaf exerts minimal pressure on even the lowest leaf in the pile. Imagine the weight of a column of tobacco leaf 1" x 1" x 60". The psi is not very much. I believe the pilon provides primarily thermal insulation.

Bob
 

Smokin Harley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2,573
Likes
99
Points
48
Location
Grant ,Alabama
#34
Understood, but what I was referring to was that a pressure exerted on the leaf does more for it than just allowing it to hang and age that way. I'm eyeballing my freeze/thaw leaf still out in the garden in this polar vortex weather we're having currently. Thinking I should bring it in before it gets buried under 10 inches + of snow...It looks like its been sun cured .
 

Smokin Harley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2,573
Likes
99
Points
48
Location
Grant ,Alabama
#35
Spent the last last couple hours chopping pressed flake into ribbon. My cast iron antique chopper is broken. Jb weld didn't work. Twice. So I have a cast iron paper weight display now.
 

DistillingJim

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
350
Likes
28
Points
28
Location
UK
#37
I did the jars in boiling water trick with some red last week. Smelt amazing, like cherries and stewed fruit. Still struggling with blending though. However I mix things, I end up with tonguebite (which I rarely get from commercial blends). I've acquired some fire-cured and am making some perique so I'm hoping these will help me along a bit.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2018
Messages
13
Likes
2
Points
3
Location
Greensboro, NC
#40
I have been busy since christmas with experimentation with my tobacco leafs , different methods have been used in different ways , this is some of what i have been doing ,i was thinking of an alternative method to make cavendish , a method who does not need for so much surveillance ,as in this thread by deluxestogie (http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads...ndish-Pipe-Tobacco?highlight=making+cavendish ) should it be called stoved or cavendish or stovendish:D:confused:

Any way i just soaked the leafs (soggy) and put them in an ovenproof lunch box with an air thight lid ( moist must stay inside the box), and let them stay in for 24 hours in 90°C (194 F)

The first picture , lemon virginia (from Don) soaked with water, right after i take it out of the oven after 24 hours (what aroma , i wish it was possible to transfer the scent with the post)

Before and after , middle picture

Bottom picture , burley to the left, (lemon virginia to the right) needed 48 hours in 90°C to get them brown as showed in the picture , if 10% sugar added in 100gr of water they became more black , but it will be a sweeter taste and i like the burley taste as it will be by this process
How wet did you get them exactly? When I think of "soggy" I imagine you dunking them in a bath of water...Also wondering if it is beter to do this with whole leaf or leaf that I've already shredded ( I got a little trigger happy with my new shredder :rolleyes:)
 
Top