About Shiraz(i) tobacco

[istanbulin]

I was trying to find the best information about Shiraz tobacco. I think it's a little ready now.

First of all, I always thought that Shiraz and Isfahan tobaccos are resembles each other so Shiraz may be a type of tombac which is generally used in hookahs. There’s another reference strenghten my wiev. There’s no cigarette tobacco growing areas in southwestern Iran, there is only hookah tobacco production in that regions (e.g. Isfahan, Shiraz etc.). Cigarette (or pipe) tobacco growing areas mostly exist in northwestern and northern regions of Iran.

Here are some hookah tobacco packages from Iran (produced by state monopoly of Iran "ITC")






There're four records in ARS-GRIN about tobacco of Shiraz;

1- PI 483078 - Shirazi - Donated : Iran - N. tabacum
2- PI 22167 - Shiraz (Persia) - Donated : Campania, Italy - N. tabacum
3- PI 58029 - (no name) - Iran – N. tabacum - Seeds of the finest grade of the Persian tobacco variety known as "Shiraz Tumbac" - Seeds presented through Bernard Gotlieb, American consul.
4- PI 17501 - Schiraz - Donated : Campania,Italy - N. alata

In PI 483078 (Shirazi) observations are available (Bob already wrote it another thread) but for others observations are not available in the site.

They're all (or said to be) originated from same region, Shiraz (the capital of Fars Province, Iran) but their names in the records are look different. It may be because of the seed donors’ or ARS-GRIN’s fault, because there's a language barrier between them.

For example, for the name of "Schiraz", this is the Italian way of pronounciate Shiraz. For the "Shirazi"; Shirazi means "from Shiraz" in Persian. I think you all know Shirazi wine

Three of them are N. tabacum varieties but 4th is a N. alata variety. It may be, because N. alata is native to Brazil. It's claimed that Portugese merchants and sailors intoduced tobacco to Iran in 16th century. But some references claimed that tobacco was not introduced to Asia before 1600. We’re lack of certain information. Also I'm not sure if anybody grew the N. alata variety of Shiraz.

BTW, there's a poem about tobacco (and hookah) belongs to a Shirazi poet which was died in 1536. You know Shiraz is the city of poets.

The poem is like this ;

"From your lips the waterpipe drows enjoyment
In your mouth the reed turns sweet as sugar cane
It is not tobacco smoke in your face
It is a cloud circles around the moon"

In the ARS-GRIN record PI 58029 is defined as "seeds of the finest grade of the Persian tobacco variety known as "Shiraz Tumbac". I think this is a good point too.

There's also another point is about "tombac". Iranians started to smoke with hookah (or as they say, qalyan or nargilah) and tchopok (a long pipe generally made of clay, wood or sometimes metal). Cigarette smoking and cigarette tobaccos are relatively new (compared with tombac).
I know that, tobacco produced in south-western Iran (like Shiraz and Isfahan) classified in two groups. 1st grade (tombac), 2nd grade (tchopok). Actually these two classes of tobacco can be both used in hookah but 2nd grade (tchopok) tobaccos are also used for smoking traditional pipe (tchopok).




I think the variety that some of the members have here is "Shirazi (PI 483078)" from the ARS-GRIN. I’m not sure if somebody have the other three varieties but if you have Shirazi it's worth a try in hookah (as in the form of leverhead's tömbeki) or in a pipe.

 

[leverhead]

This is very interesting! I have some Shirazi seed from Sustainable Seed Company, I'll have to wait to see what it comes up looking like. The tcopoks are almost "peace pipe" in appearance. Are they smoked with wet tobacco and charcoal or with dry tobacco?

 

[istanbulin]

This is very interesting! I have some Shirazi seed from Sustainable Seed Company, I'll have to wait to see what it comes up looking like. The tcopoks are almost "peace pipe" in appearance. Are they smoked with wet tobacco and charcoal or with dry tobacco?

Actually, that photo belongs to an antique dealer in Turkey. That two ones were made in Ottoman era. Tchopoks (çubuk in Turkish) were also in use here in the past. It's smoked like regular pipe.

 

[deluxestogie]

Interesting thoughts, Emre. The Shirazi that I have grown was from seed obtained through New Hope Seed several years ago, so I don't know the ARS-GRIN accession number.

My impression of the plant in my garden is that it does not resemble the photos that I've seen of Tombac. The leaves are longer, narrower, somewhat beaked, and do not cure to the distinctive mottled pattern seen in Tombac.

http://fairtradetobacco.com/showthread.php?212-Shirazi-Morphology

As recently as the early to mid 20th century, Shirazi was often identified as Nicotiana persica, and this was also confused in the literature with N. alata, so I find it difficult to make sense of that aspect.

My Shirazi was consistently difficult to color-cure. I did fire-cure a batch of Shirazi, and this continues to serve as my supply of fire-cured leaf for pipe blending.

Bob

 

[istanbulin]

Bob, I read your thread about Shirazi. Yes, it doesn't resemble Turkish grown tombac but narrower leaves are more common in Iranian and Indian varieties of tombac. The mottled pattern is because of the curing method. Tombac (red) is generally stalk harvested and stalk cured in open air (generally in the field) for a while. The dew in the morning cause that spots on the leaf, if the dew is not exist farmers spray some water on the leaves. Then the leaves detached from the stalk. So, it's not related with the variety. BTW, non-mottled tombac also exist, you know, "zard" tombac. It's all about curing.

I don't want to make any comment about N. persica, it's not a variety according to modern botany, but N. alata is. It's obvious that your plant (Shirazi) is not a N. alata variety. BTW, there may be another variety of N. alata growing in Shiraz (or in Iran), who knows ?

BTW, so-called N. persica was named by John Lindley in 19th century. Yes he was my colleague but after him nobody talked about N. persica. Because of this so-called N. persica is renamed as N. alata var. persica in some references and I think so too. BTW, John Lindley was better in orchidology.

 

[Chicken]

my first sucessfull year i grew some SHARAZI, it was labeled as a '' turkish'' tobacco,

small leaves, and my crop was weak but it was my first year,

good info. you bring to the table,

 

[istanbulin]

I'll grow some Shirazi this year to see if it's eligible for smoking in nargile like tombac. Tombac leaves are expected to be 30-40 cm (12-15 in) long and 20-30 cm (8-12 in) wide. According to Bob's data on "Shirazi Morphology" thread his Shirazi leaves are about 22/10.5 in. If anybody growed Shirazi last year or before, please share the leaf sizes here.

I'm planning to grow my Shirazi like this. As recommended on growing tombac, growing space is larger than other types (35/31 in), I'll top and stalk harvest the Shirazis. Growing procedures includes the curing way to leave the stalk harvested plant in the field (or garden) for 7-9 days. I don't care about the spots on the leaf but if they dew there I won't step in.

I visited some internet sites about this curing procedure, as said it is sometimes applied to other tobacco varieties (like Burley) and called "field curing" but I don't know the details of this process. Making a thread (or sharing some info) about it may be useful. Because flash curing of leaves may be a problem.

 

[Knucklehead]

BigBonner has some info on his reasons for leaving burley in the field. I think the main reason is, it makes it easier to handle. I will try to find the post. It is buried in someone else's thread.

 

[leverhead]

I'll be growing Shirazi tobacco this season, I'm moving seedlings to starter trays this afternoon.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

BigBonner has some info on his reasons for leaving burley in the field. I think the main reason is, it makes it easier to handle. I will try to find the post. It is buried in someone else's thread.

Maybe the Big guy will chime in here but what I know about Burley is they cut the stalks down and leave in the field for several days to wilt. During the wilting process the plants loose a lot of water making them easier to handle and quicker to cure. They do not flash cure because the plants are harvested when they have yellowed up. Pure green leaf would flash cure green

 

[istanbulin]

I was looking for this video for a long time. Finally I found it. This is how people harvest and start the curing process of tombac here. Same with Kentuckians, interesting.

 

[Boboro]

I mite have to do it like that this year. NOT.

 

[istanbulin]

Last evening an old friend of mine who's an very experienced tobacco expert came to my home to visit me. He brought me an interesting news about Shirazi.

As he said that the tobacco used for hookah smoking is most probably first cultivated in Iran. Not a surprise because they have the biggest population of hookah (they call it "qalyan") smokers in the World.

In the past there were only two producers of tombac in the World; Iran and Syria. In Iran tombac is growing in two regions; Isfahan and Shriaz while the Syrian tombac is surprisingly growing in Latakia ! Because of complexities about importing tombac from these countries, various countries imported some seeds in the past and started to grow tombac.

As my friend said, Isfahan and Shiraz tombacs have some differences about their appearance. While Isfahan type tombac has wider and bigger leaves, Shiraz type has smaller and thicker leaves.

The photos I posted in the "Tombac" thread in oriental tobacco section on the forum were the Turkish grown tombacs which are derived from Isfahan type. BTW, there're three types of Isfahan tombac too, they are called Isfahan I, Isfahan II, Isfahan III. The differences between them are generally about disease resistence and leaf chemistry not very morphological.




A view from a hookah cafe in Iran.

 

[leverhead]

This is very interesting! Did he compare the Syrian Tombac to Isfahan and Shriaz Tombacs? It would be pretty funny if the fire-cured Latakia was made from the smaller leaves?. (just a guess) Of the Tombacs, which one is the most highly thought of?

 

[istanbulin]

This is very interesting! Did he compare the Syrian Tombac to Isfahan and Shriaz Tombacs? It would be pretty funny if the fire-cured Latakia was made from the smaller leaves?. (just a guess) Of the Tombacs, which one is the most highly thought of?

Actually in that region (Latakia/Syria), people probably used to grow both Latakia (for fire-curing) and tombac. As you know they're different cultivars.

As I recall from what he said, Syrian tombac is similar with Isfahan. But Isfahan is always considered as the best tobacco for hookah all times