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Cavendish questions

Tobaccofieldsforever

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I know how Cavendish is made and that it is a process done to tobacco rather than a tobacco itself. I also recently learned (from Bob) that there is a cut called Cavendish that doesn't necessarily have to involve any cavendish tobacco. Anyway, I have some unsweetened cavendish from my commercial tobacco purchasing days and I was wondering what cavendish offers to a blend or how it could be used to balance/ enhance any blends. I read that cavendish "takes on" traits of the tobaccos it is blended with. I don't know how accurate this statement is, but I would appreciate any advice...THANKS!
 

Charly

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Cavendish(es ?) properties depend on what tobacco was used to do it.
Some cavendish are light, some are strong. They are often more smooth than unprocessed tobacco.
They can be used in blends for different reasons (reduce harshness, give a more bold flavor...) but it depends on each specific cavendish.

Check out this thread to see some blends : https://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/pure-tobacco-pipe-blends-you-can-make.3926/
 

deluxestogie

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A month late. Sorry. Thanks, @Charly, for picking it up.

There is commercial "Cavendish", then there is identifiable, known, prepared Cavendish. The commercial stuff is nearly always an unidentified tobacco variety of unidentified nicotine strength, which has been kept artificially dark by using propylene glycol to hold on to water. Since all Cavendish tends to be more hygroscopic than uncooked tobacco, it will more easily absorb ambient aromas and flavorants.

If you prepare your own Cavendish from known tobacco, and allow it to naturally dry down, you will discover a world of nuanced blending components. Burley seco Cavendish vs burley ligero Cavendish; burley seco Cavendish vs Basma Cavendish. Basma Cavendish vs Trabzon Cavendish. And Cavendish prepared from each of the various priming levels of flue-cured Virginia is a box of Crayola in itself.

What to do with your commercial Cavendish? You can blend it in any way imaginable. Blend; test; blend again. If its PG is too heavy, try heating it in a toaster oven that is set to warm, to drive off some of the chemical. (Note the film that condenses on the toaster oven glass door.) You can also perform a serial soak-and-drain with boiling water, to remove even more PG.

Another possibility for unflavored, commercial Cavendish is to scoot over to the LorAnn oils website, and pick up some intense flavor for making a rich aromatic pipe blend.

Bob
 

Tobaccofieldsforever

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I was wondering if anybody on the forum has ever cavendished perique? If so, how was it? I'm currently trying to select candidates for cavendish and at the moment all I'm really sure of is Maryland 609 (I'm selecting from WLT products only right now). I was thinking of making some out of Dark air cure as well. I have nearly every tobacco WLT has to offer on hand except their cigar tobaccos. I know it's all really a matter of personal preference but I thought I would get some suggestions as to what some members found particularly impressive. I read that WLT's bright leaf made a very sweet cavendish so I may try that as well. My only real goal is to make some black cavendish for pipe blending similar to something you would find in captain black original (an aromatic that has grown on me lately). I would also like to try to bump the intensity of dark air cure down a notch in any way I can. It is very strong tobacco when smoked. I was also curious if @ChinaVoodoo 's method of pressure cooker cavendish has had any updates in procedure? Is half tobacco, half water by weight still the way to go? Do I run my cooker at max (around 15 lbs) for 4 hours or match what his was (around 13 lbs i believe) for 4 hours? Any information would be greatly appreciated and good luck to all who have crops currently growing!!
 

deluxestogie

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Nothing about making Cavendish is critical, except safety. As with cooking food, there are many different ways to do it, yet still create a result you will enjoy.

Look at the size of your pressure cooker, compared to the size of your Mason jars. See how many will fit at once, and still close the cooker lid. Pressure cooker max pressure and max temperature depend on your elevation above sea level, so don't give it much thought. If your cooker will fit 5 jars, then make up a jar each of 5 different varieties. They all come out different. Cavendish cooking does indeed smooth the taste, and soften the aroma. But if done correctly, the cooking has no effect on the nicotine level of a specific variety.

If you cook in a jar sloshing with water, then you will leach out both nicotine and flavorants (i.e. make bland Cavendish), unless you allow the finished leaf to reabsorb all of the water, prior to drying the leaf. Lots of water does make for darker color, if that is what you are looking for.

My preference is to tightly roll each frog-legged, wet leaf into a snug sausage, and pack as many as will fit into my chosen jar. I do not add additional water, though a bit may drain down from the rolled leaf. Add the lids and rims. I add all the jars into my pressure cooker, then use a small dinner plate to add weight to the top of them, to hold them down, allowing me to add a greater volume of water, before it makes them float and tip. If they can tip over, I add a small, capped Mason jar of water, as a space filler. I run the pressure cooker at its standard pressure (~15 psi), which will cook at ~121°C (~250°F), for about 5 hours. But you have to attend to it, to make sure you don't run out of water.

A less worrisome approach is to set it all up the same way, but with a different pot lid, so that it is just a pot of regular old boiling water with a cover. I can then peek every few hours to check the water level, and if needed, add boiling water to the pot. With this approach, I just start it in the morning, and let it go all day. I don't leave it boiling over night. Sometimes I'll even cook the same batch for a second day, depending on my whim.

It's worth noting that the final color of the dried Cavendish will not develop fully until the leaf has been removed, spread out to dry, and well exposed to air. (Even commercial "black" Cavendish is actually a deep brown, if you evaporate most of the chemicals from it--glycerin and PG). Once the jars have come out of the water bath, and allowed to cool, I flip them over (stand them on their lids) from time to time, until any residual liquid in the jar has been well absorbed into the leaf.

Since the leaf needs to be unrolled, and fully spread out to dry, each jar of leaf will occupy 2 or 3 square feet of drying space (cookie sheet or cutting board). So I usually open only one jar, and dry the leaf, while leaving the remaining (well sterilized) jars sealed. One generous batch of jars of Cavendish may take me 10 consecutive days to dry--typically 24 to 48 hours per jar full. Once dried down, I usually just bag the dried (low case) Cavendish varieties, and don't shred any of it until I'm in the process of making a pipe blend.

Bob

EDIT: I should add that the aroma continues to evolve for a week or so after it's been bagged.
 
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Davo

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I really enjoy adding a small amount of unsweetened/natural cavendish to a blend. It gives that quintessential pipe aroma. I’ve only made cavendish at home from Va Bright and a generic burley variety, however I frequently will process blends (or components) in a manner similar to stoving/cavendish but for not as long as if I wanted to actually make cavendish.

if I were in your shoes, and after some CB flavour, I’d probably just by the bulk lane equivalent and use that as my cavendish component in the blend
 

Tobaccofieldsforever

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Nothing about making Cavendish is critical, except safety. As with cooking food, there are many different ways to do it, yet still create a result you will enjoy.

Look at the size of your pressure cooker, compared to the size of your Mason jars. See how many will fit at once, and still close the cooker lid. Pressure cooker max pressure and max temperature depend on your elevation above sea level, so don't give it much thought. If your cooker will fit 5 jars, then make up a jar each of 5 different varieties. They all come out different. Cavendish cooking does indeed smooth the taste, and soften the aroma. But if done correctly, the cooking has no effect on the nicotine level of a specific variety.

If you cook in a jar sloshing with water, then you will leach out both nicotine and flavorants (i.e. make bland Cavendish), unless you allow the finished leaf to reabsorb all of the water, prior to drying the leaf. Lots of water does make for darker color, if that is what you are looking for.

My preference is to tightly roll each frog-legged, wet leaf into a snug sausage, and pack as many as will fit into my chosen jar. I do not add additional water, though a bit may drain down from the rolled leaf. Add the lids and rims. I add all the jars into my pressure cooker, then use a small dinner plate to add weight to the top of them, to hold them down, allowing me to add a greater volume of water, before it makes them float and tip. If they can tip over, I add a small, capped Mason jar of water, as a space filler. I run the pressure cooker at its standard pressure (~15 psi), which will cook at ~121°C (~250°F), for about 5 hours. But you have to attend to it, to make sure you don't run out of water.

A less worrisome approach is to set it all up the same way, but with a different pot lid, so that it is just a pot of regular old boiling water with a cover. I can then peek every few hours to check the water level, and if needed, add boiling water to the pot. With this approach, I just start it in the morning, and let it go all day. I don't leave it boiling over night. Sometimes I'll even cook the same batch for a second day, depending on my whim.

It's worth noting that the final color of the dried Cavendish will not develop fully until the leaf has been removed, spread out to dry, and well exposed to air. (Even commercial "black" Cavendish is actually a deep brown, if you evaporate most of the chemicals from it--glycerin and PG). Once the jars have come out of the water bath, and allowed to cool, I flip them over (stand them on their lids) from time to time, until any residual liquid in the jar has been well absorbed into the leaf.

Since the leaf needs to be unrolled, and fully spread out to dry, each jar of leaf will occupy 2 or 3 square feet of drying space (cookie sheet or cutting board). So I usually open only one jar, and dry the leaf, while leaving the remaining (well sterilized) jars sealed. One generous batch of jars of Cavendish may take me 10 consecutive days to dry--typically 24 to 48 hours per jar full. Once dried down, I usually just bag the dried (low case) Cavendish varieties, and don't shred any of it until I'm in the process of making a pipe blend.

Bob

EDIT: I should add that the aroma continues to evolve for a week or so after it's been bagged.
Thank you very much! Extremely helpful! I personally think this should be added to the key forum threads cavendish section. It contains a lot of helpful information and techniques.
 

Tobaccofieldsforever

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I really enjoy adding a small amount of unsweetened/natural cavendish to a blend. It gives that quintessential pipe aroma. I’ve only made cavendish at home from Va Bright and a generic burley variety, however I frequently will process blends (or components) in a manner similar to stoving/cavendish but for not as long as if I wanted to actually make cavendish.

if I were in your shoes, and after some CB flavour, I’d probably just by the bulk lane equivalent and use that as my cavendish component in the blend
I may do that eventually. I want to and have wanted to make cavendish for awhile now and just haven't gotten around to it. Mostly because I felt like I didn't know enough about it yet. To be fair, all the posts in the key thread cavendish section give very specific directions on how to make cavendish a few different ways so I'm not saying I didn't know how to do it, but more like I was just lacking confidence in what I was doing, if that makes sense. Anyway, I think I now have enough directions and information on cavendishing to make a confident attempt at it. Thanks everyone!
 

Tobaccofieldsforever

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Earlier this week I made my first batch of cavendish. I used an 8 quart pressure cooker "smart pot". I used small amounts of Dark Air Cure, Hand tied Bright Leaf, MD 609 and Hand tied lemon leaf. I used the "canning/preserving" button on the smart pot and ran it for 4 hours ( 2 seperate 2 hour cooks because this was as high as it would let me set it at once). I am VERY happy with the results. I used shredded tobacco rather than whole leaf, stuffed it in a pint jar and added enough water to thoroughly soak the tobacco. I put about a cup of water in the cooker itself. Everything came out very dark and smelling phenomenal. I haven't smoked much of it yet but what I have smoked is quite good. I was wondering if anyone here has ever sweetened cavendish successfully? If so, how did you do it? I have a 1 dram bottle of cherry flavoring and was thinking about attempting to try and make some cherry cavendish as an "experiment". Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
 

skychaser

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I was wondering if anyone here has ever sweetened cavendish successfully? If so, how did you do it? I have a 1 dram bottle of cherry flavoring and was thinking about attempting to try and make some cherry cavendish as an "experiment". Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
I got hooked on cherry cavendish a few years ago. I roll a few cherry flavored cigarettes for those special moments in the day that are about 25% cherry and the rest is my regular blend. I've made my own a few times. The first time I bought a jar of maraschino cherries, ate the cherries, and used the juice to flavor it. The other times I used cherry flavoring. Now I have gotten too lazy to make it and just buy it instead. A little goes a long way for me. My home made molded fast if I didn't keep it in the fridge or freezer. It seemed to loose a lot of flavor when it was dry enough not to mold.
 

Tobaccofieldsforever

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1-2% of the total weight in glycerin will bring out the sweetness in the VA cav which is already there. That's my experience. Adding sugar doesn't seem to work.
Excellent, I just so happen to have a bottle of vegetable glycerin. How exactly do you add it? I was thinking about putting it in a spray bottle mixed with water maybe? Thanks!
 
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Tobaccofieldsforever

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Be sure to thoroughly dry the Cavendish, once you open a jar. When it still feels squishy like commercial Cavendish, it will mold in storage. The unopened jars are sterile.

Bob
Ok. I already opened and dried all the stuff out. It's not exactly out of case but it is quite dry. It's at a smokeable case but much drier than commercial comes. The virginias are both pretty sticky and the bright smells like candy! Should I dry them further to avoid mold? When you touch them, they are dry to the touch but aren't really "noisy" like unprocessed tobacco is at low case. I'm not even sure they will go out of case at this point.
 

Tobaccofieldsforever

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I got hooked on cherry cavendish a few years ago. I roll a few cherry flavored cigarettes for those special moments in the day that are about 25% cherry and the rest is my regular blend. I've made my own a few times. The first time I bought a jar of maraschino cherries, ate the cherries, and used the juice to flavor it. The other times I used cherry flavoring. Now I have gotten too lazy to make it and just buy it instead. A little goes a long way for me. My home made molded fast if I didn't keep it in the fridge or freezer. It seemed to loose a lot of flavor when it was dry enough not to mold.
If you don't mind me asking, what brand of cherry cavendish do you buy? I've been told to try captain black's but have not yet. I have seen big bags of value brand in smoke shops but they honestly just don't sound good to me.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Excellent, I just so happen to have a bottle of vegetable glycerin. How exactly do you add it? I was thinking about putting it in a spray bottle mixed with water maybe? Thanks!
I mix it with water or booze, using a scale that can measure such small amounts. If I didn't have such a scale, I would use measuring spoons.

Let's say you have 50g of tobacco. In that case for 1% glycerin, you need 50x0.01= 0.5g of glycerin. One tsp weighs 2.5g, so you need a fifth of a tsp. So combine 4tsp of water or booze with 1tsp of glycerin, mix thoroughly, then add one tsp of the mixture to the tobacco. If it's too thick, go 9tsp of booze, 1tsp of glycerin and add 2tsp of the mixture. Make sense?

Just pour and mix. No spray.
 

skychaser

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If you don't mind me asking, what brand of cherry cavendish do you buy? I've been told to try captain black's but have not yet. I have seen big bags of value brand in smoke shops but they honestly just don't sound good to me.
The first cherry cavendish I bought was Lanes and it's the only cherry one I have tried. Got it and a few other blends at a tobacco store in Seattle across the street from Pikes Place market. It was a cool store and had dozens of different tobaccos. (it was destroyed in last summers riots) Anyways, I liked a few of the blends I got, and others not so much. I liked the Lanes cherry best. I found a specialty cigar store here that also carries 20-25 different types of cavendish and they had Lanes blends so I was buying it there. One day I noticed they had a big jar called "Very Cherry". I opened it and wow, it was VERY cherry alright. Like Lanes blend on steroids. I have no idea who makes it. I mix it with my home grown 2/3 Virginian 1/3 burley cigarette blend at about 4-1. It's $5 an ounce and lasts me about a month, so it makes a pretty cheap blend when mixed with free homegrown. I buy a half pound or more at a time. The stuff never dries out and must be douched in glycerin to keep it soft and feeling moist.
 

deluxestogie

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Very Cherry is made by Lane Ltd.


I suspect that we can adapt to--and enjoy--just about any tobacco blend out there. The greatest challenge comes when we switch to something else, then switch back. Decades ago, I smoked--and enjoyed--Amphora, Sir Walter Raleigh, Carter Hall, Borkum Riff, Half and Half, Mixture 79, Paladin Black Cherry, Prince Albert, and just about every other "drug store blend" available back then. I've smoked pounds of Captain Black (Gold as well as Original). I still hold some Super-Value Chocolate, which I smoke about once a year, for nostalgia.

As the years have passed, I have become less interested in cased and top-dressed tobaccos, and more fascinated with the spectrum of tobacco itself.

Bob
 
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