deluxestogie's Trash Can Cozy Flue-cure Chamber

[cigarchris]

I've been pondering along the same lines, but for a different reason. My little crockpot sits to one side of the can and I'm now suspicious that this is one of the reasons why my leaf sometimes turns out half brown and half green, the other being improper air circulation. I understand that the thermal drafts should occur naturally top to bottom, but what about side to side? I was thinking of finding a different heat source that sits lower so I can center it in the can and thus, hopefully get a more even yellowing/cure.

On another note, Bob, do you ever use overly brown leaf in your cigar blends? I had quite a good bit of browned VA bright leaf from some of my less successful attempts last year and it smoked well in a pipe and as a puro, but showed the sign of too much albuminous protein, as you described in a picture I saw posted previously, with the black ring around the ash. Since I am only flue-curing Prilep this year, and I'm not sure if this would be good cigar filler (I'm going to try it of course!), I figured I'd ask if you have done this before, and what you thought. I may, in fact, try a whole run of extended yellowing, to brown all the leaves as much as possible before ramping, and see if I can get a dark brown, just for the hell of it.

 

[Bex]

My little crockpot sits to one side of the can and I'm now suspicious that this is one of the reasons why my leaf sometimes turns out half brown and half green, the other being improper air circulation. I understand that the thermal drafts should occur naturally top to bottom, but what about side to side? I was thinking of finding a different heat source that sits lower so I can center it in the can and thus, hopefully get a more even yellowing/cure.

It is preposterous of me to think that I can actually answer this, but I put my crockpot smack into the center of my chamber. When trying to 'study' convection, I looked at diagrams of radiators, that would normally sit at a wall, and not in the center of the room. The air tends to go up, rather than out horizontally, and I think that this is compounded further by the fact that the sides of the crockpot are not getting hot themselves - it is the stoneware inside. A diagram of what I mean is here:
http://www.gcsescience.com/pen8-convection-current.htm
Using that, I would assume that the top of your leaf is browning more than the bottom, as the bottom is sitting in the cooler air. Additionally, the wall next to the crockpot is also directing the air straight up. With the crockpot in the center, the warm air would tend to go up in more of a V shape, so that you would have two 'circles' of convection, if you know what I mean. And I think that may be why Deluxestogie (and excuse my presumption) alternated the seed mats being on from side to side....???

 

[deluxestogie]

cigarchris,
For dark brown cigar leaf, kilning leaf from the top of the plant (of a cigar variety) yields excellent, very dark leaf. Although I have rolled and smoked cigars made entire of flue-cured tobacco, it never tastes like a cigar, but rather a fat cigarette. Your dark flue-cured leaf will definitely improve if kilned afterwards. Most flue-cured leaf smokes well in a pipe.

Bex,
The Cozy Can is a model of utter simplicity. Its convection is always imperfect. The threads of AmaxB and others, on their flue-curing chambers, demonstrate just how sophisticated and perfect the equipment can be. For me, [small batch] = [small risk] = [primitive approach]. It's just a minimalist starting point.

It may be worth noting that there are four sources of heat in the Cozy Can, while only the Crockpot is powered. First, there is the imperfect convection that carries heated air upward, creating a circulation. Secondly, there is radiant heat from the crockery, which most impacts the closest leaf. Third, the metal sides of the Cozy Can (and the lid), once warmed, become a secondary source of radiant heat. Finally, the heated sides of the Cozy Can generate their own toroidal convection currents.

A Cozy Can is a rowboat among the frigates of the flue-curing fleet.

If you wire-in a small computer fan, it will improve your heat distribution.

Bob

 

[Bex]

Toroidal and poloidal convection....I'm sticking to rowboats....

 

[cigarchris]

For my current run, I've spaced the leaves out a little bit more. They were also pre-yellowed for about three days in a pile before going into the can. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[deluxestogie]

Cozy Can Red Virginia Run

There is a basic question about how to produce "Red" Virginia. Is it simply upper leaf that is allowed to ripen, then flue-cured using the same parameters as are used for creating "Lemon" Virginia, or must the temperatures be carried above 165ºF, in order to caramelize some of the contained sugars?

Since my only use for bright leaf is in pipe blending, I only grow 8 plants of VA Bright Leaf each season. As a result, the selection of leaves for any particular flue-curing batch is never homogeneous. In this batch, all of the leaf was matured upper leaf, including some tips, but some leaves were from runty plants, and were thinner, though at pretty much the same degree of ripeness.

The thickest top leaf, before curing.

The leaf required 3-1/2 days to reach this degree of yellowing.

The run was taken up to a max of 165ºF, where it was held for 48 hours. The degree of coloring achieved seems to correlate fairly well with the thickness of the leaf. My small batch yielded a spectrum of different leaf colors. With the exception of leaf areas that had begun to brown by the end of yellowing, each leaf seems to have its own degree of "red".

Thickest (and darkest), from left to right.

In betweenish leaf.

This was the thinest leaf, from a runty plant.

The thickness of the leaf did not seem to influence the speed of yellowing very much, since all the leaf, both thick and thin, started out at the same degree of ripeness. Position within the Cozy Can does not seem to correlate with leaf yellowing or final coloration.

How does it smell/taste? It's too soon to tell. I'll let it rest for a week or three, before assessing that.

What this Cozy Can run seems to indicate is the following:

• "Red" Virginia is leaf from upper stalk positions.
• "Red" Virginia does not require higher curing temperatures.
• The leaf should be well ripened.
• The thicker the leaf, the deeper the color when flue-cured.
• The smaller the total Virginia crop, the more mixed each flue-cure run will be.
• Mixed runs may yield a spectrum of color, from lemon to red-brown.

Bob

 

[Brown Thumb]

Thank you for clearing that up. I was wondering how I got red leaf and lots of it at a max. of 165.
Very informative post, thank you.

 

[Bex]

Wow, excellent...however, do you not take this 'patience, my friend' thing just a bit too far? Maybe one teeny weeny taste before a week or three??
And, of course, some questions - do you normally stay at midrib drying for 48 hours? Or would the additional time at this stage contribute to the change in color? Also, in your photo of the yellowing leaf after 3-1/2 days - as a newb, I'd be concerned with all the green still in the leaf (as I am doing my second run and have found just that, even though I have continued on to wilting). Is it normal for there still to be such a hue of green after 84 hours of yellowing? (My gut told me to yellow more - my impatience drove me to wilting).

In any event, thank you very much for all of this info. Of course, I must be a nag, and ask if its possible for you to 'follow up' when you do try to smoke some of this, to compare it to normal bright leaf. As I may have said earlier, I find VA too mild on its own - I am wondering if the red VA has more of a bite to it. I still have a way to go before my top leaves (or even bottom leaves) are anywhere near ripe, but this information will be incredibly helpful when I'm ready. Thanks again for all of this!

 

[deluxestogie]

What is it that concerns you about yellowed leaf that finishes just fine? I photographed the end of the yellowing specifically to show the point at which I begin to ramp up the temp.

Regarding "normally," if it's remaining wet outdoors, I hold the stem kill for 2 days. If it's hot and dry outdoors, then I may stem kill for only one day. Beyond that, I don't know what contributes to what. I use only my eyeballs and an analog thermostat. My method is embarrassingly simple:

• hold and watch for adequate yellowing
• raise the temp every 12 hours until stem kill
• hold at stem kill for a while

The strength of flue-cured VA depends on the stalk position from which it is harvested. Leaf needs to be very mature to ripe when it is harvested. Immature bottom leaf will be deficient in both taste and strength. Don't harvest leaf until it shows some yellow.

Bob

 

[Bex]

Sorry - didn't mean to make you impatient with my questions. My only confusion (no, not only, one of many) was that during my first run, the leaf I had that still had that greeny hue at the end of yellowing, stayed like that during the process, and didn't really finish fine. I understand that I am getting caught up in the detail of all of this, but, in my own defense, in order to understand the process and then be able to think by the seat of my pants, I think I need to learn the logic of the process first. My immature 'logic', at the moment, would have looked at those leaves in your photo and would have remembered other photos I saw on this forum, where the entire leaf is yellow but the stems and mid rib are green - I would have said, no this is not yellow enough, it doesn't look like the photos, and would have stayed in yellowing to try to get the leaf color better. I don't understand why yours finishes nice, and mine - looking similar - finished with that green still in it.

 

[deluxestogie]

Every chamber is different. You just have to run trials. But initial leaf maturity makes a huge difference. Trying to yellow immature leaf is an attempt to force it into metabolic senescence before it has already begun the process. A change naturally happens withing the leaf lamina that causes chlorophyll to start to break down--ripening. Once the leaf has begun this on its own, the yellowing process occurs more predictably.

Bob

 

[Bex]

force it into metabolic senescence

A new word learned today!! And yes, I am beginning to understand this - my hope was to be able to be somewhat familiar with the process before I was actually doing this on ripe leaf - where it would matter. Thanks, as usual, for your info.

 

[cigarchris]

Bob- Your photos of the VA Bright look EXACTLY like mine from last year. I thought I was doing something wrong when I got that red/orange color, but it tasted great after a couple weeks aging. Again, it points to the only drawback to the cozy-can, in my opinion... not being able to view the leaf through it's entire process.

On a side note, my Prilep runs are doing basically the equivalent, turning out darker than I had imagined, but still nice. I had so much leaf that was ripe near the tops, and still a good bit unripe that was lower or on the north side of the plant, that I decided to pick everything all at once. I was only about half way up each, so total from eight plants was almost 200 leaves. I then sorted them by large and small of three different ripeness, and had six piles of fairly uniform looking leaf. Big surprise! They yellowed almost identically in each pile. After only two days in the piles, the first batch went in, but I'm on the second batch now. I'm guessing I'll get a third and maybe a fourth, but by then, the remaining leaf will have browned and will just be hung up for air curing.

 

[Bex]

What this Cozy Can run seems to indicate is the following:

• "Red" Virginia is leaf from upper stalk positions.
• "Red" Virginia does not require higher curing temperatures.
• The leaf should be well ripened.
• The thicker the leaf, the deeper the color when flue-cured.
• The smaller the total Virginia crop, the more mixed each flue-cure run will be.
• Mixed runs may yield a spectrum of color, from lemon to red-brown.

Bob

Perhaps longer at 165F (you advise 48 hours) may have something to do with this, as well? The reason I ask is that I have just finished shredding some bought leaf - the red Virginia is considerably 'drier' than the yellow. I have purchased yellow from a number of suppliers, and I find that they all tend to be more supple, and, frankly, a bit 'gummy', where they clog up my shredder. The Red Virginia (or the burley I get) doesn't do that at all. The yellow, on the other hand, is a nightmare to shred with a manual shredder.....

 

[deluxestogie]

Bex, I'm not sure what it is that you're asking. Try allowing your yellow leaf to dry-down more before shredding. You can even kiln it for a month to darken it a bit.

Bob

 

[Bex]

Sorry, I'm a Virgo, and a stickler for them freaky details....aside from hangin' on to your every word, of course. In your original schedule, your 165F temp was run for 24 hours. In the above run, where the leaves came out redder, the 165F temp was held for 48 hours. I was wondering if you thought that additional 24 hours at 165 contributed to the different result.

 

[deluxestogie]

I don't believe so. I run the stem kill longer when the ambient humidity is high for many days, since I have no control over the diffusion of water vapor from the can to the air, once the lid is fully closed.

Besides, the point I attempted to make was that the very same run produces everything from brown-red leaves to lemon leaves, depending on the initial thickness of the leaf. They all started at the same level of maturity, but were not well matched for general leaf character.

My hypothesis is that the emergence of a redder color is inherent in the character of the leaf. While that single run does not prove the hypothesis, it does support it.

Bob

 

[deluxestogie]

Danger, Will Robinson!

I built the Cozy can in mid July of 2012. Since that date, it has been in operation as either a flue-cure chamber or a kiln, day after day. That's 2-1/2 years of constant heat and moisture.

Just today, I noticed that the bottom had rusted through in a 3" patch. All good things must end. The can itself is a literal rust bucket. The Crockpot, of course just keeps going and going. The grill thermometer thinks it's been a long vacation. Since the water heater thermostat remained external to the can, I expect it to be just fine.

So, I need to replace my flue-cure chamber before July 2015, and I really need the kilning capacity right now. I'll ponder whether or not to just set up a new trash can, or relegate it to a simpler past, and devise a larger chamber of some other materials.

Bob

 

[jolly]

I've read this a few times, and you may have already mentioned it, but any thought to coating the inside with rustoleum or similar? Maybe even grill paint for higher heat.

 

[deluxestogie]

My fundamental approach, in making the Cozy Can, was simplicity. I addressed only one question. What are the bare minimum requirements for flue-curing? There are certainly a host of alternative approaches to improving it, as demonstrated by the numerous, superb flue-cure chambers constructed by other FTT members. To my knowledge, when leverhead an I began our flue-curing projects, no one else on Earth had successfully tackled the challenge of home (non-industrial-scale) flue-curing.

The round cross-section of a trash can is not optimal for space utilization. The galvanized steel provides only a limited lifespan, given the curing conditions. Access to the Crockpot, for water replenishment, is problematic.

All that having been said, it would probably last for a decade or more, if only used for the relatively short flue-curing season each year. Instead, I also tasked the poor thing with kilning for the remainder of every year.

By contrast, the galvanized steel trash can that I used for fire-curing (holes drilled in the bottom), is thoroughly coated on its interior with hydrophobic, pyrolytic resins (soot, terpenes, etc.), and shows little sign of rust, after nearly 5 years. That, despite being stored outdoors, fully exposed to the weather. [Too bad I don't need a second fire-curing chamber, since the Cozy Can has managed to drill its own hole in the bottom.]

I don't encourage others to make a Cozy Can. It is a demonstration of a starting point--a baseline. The essential requirements are minimal. I do hope that it inspires other members to feel more confident about extrapolating their own designs for more efficient and specialized solutions.

Bob