Whole Leaf Tobacco

Difference between criollo 98 and vuelta abajo?

SmokesAhoy

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I rolled a puro from Don's criollo 98 yesterday, half ligero, 1 viso 2 seco, wrapped it in a maduro wrapper. It was about a 35 ring or so. Anyway, my daughter woke up from her nap just as I finished so I popped it in my mouth to hold it together while I got her ready to go in the pool.

I was tasting it unlit, kind of unconsciously drawing it while I got everything ready, and dammed if it didn't remind me of dark chocolate. This little 5 x 35 cigar lasted about 45-60 minutes and was just about the most flavorful one ever. It had notes of dark chocolate for the first 10 minutes that have way to pepper and cedar as it burned down. I ended up just sitting down and enjoying it. It was fantastic.

For those of you that have smoked a puro of both, would you say they have a similar flavor profile? I have seeds for vuelta but not criollo 98, and want to recreate this awesome cigar again, think I can do it with what I have? I noticed all the Cuban offspring have that similar flavor, I just wanted to be sure before next spring that the vuelta does too.

My wife normally gets me cigars for holidays, I told her to nix that, just get me whole leaf tobacco next time. Generally in the samplers she gets there is a couple really good ones, few medium ones and the rest I don't mind sharing with her dad hehe. That cigar yesterday was way better than the best I've had recently, I'm out of the Nicaraguan viso so got used to the real mild seco smokes and this was just a slice of heaven.

I just wanted to see if I grew the vuelta specifically for puros if anyone that's tried both thinks it'll make a cigar that is a close flavor to the criollo 98. Thanks
 

deluxestogie

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Quick answer: nope! They don't taste the same.

Long answer: The criollo 98, to my tasting, is earthier, slightly sweeter, and a little edgier than my Vuelta Abajo. The criollo also seems to have a barnyard undertone--in a nice way. My Vuelta Abajo seems deeper, drier (non-sweet), minimally earthy, and with zero barnyard.

While my Vuelta Abajo is improved by blending with a small percentage of various other varieties, it is--without reservation--my nomination for the leaf that makes the most Cuban-like cigars. Blending it with Knucklehead's Cuban Coroja approached ecstasy.

Notice that I carefully say, "my" Vuelta Abajo. There are, unfortunately, a number of GRIN accessions with the same name, that are different strains. Mine came from BigBonner's transplants, which I believe were derived from seed provided by Jitterbugdude. I don't have the PI number.

Bob
 

Hasse SWE

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One question is the seed from Jitterbugude from nicotine project (Doug)?
If so I think I have a number in a "old" e-mail..
 

Smokin Harley

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I rolled a puro from Don's criollo 98 yesterday, half ligero, 1 viso 2 seco, wrapped it in a maduro wrapper. It was about a 35 ring or so. Anyway, my daughter woke up from her nap just as I finished so I popped it in my mouth to hold it together while I got her ready to go in the pool.

I was tasting it unlit, kind of unconsciously drawing it while I got everything ready, and dammed if it didn't remind me of dark chocolate. This little 5 x 35 cigar lasted about 45-60 minutes and was just about the most flavorful one ever. It had notes of dark chocolate for the first 10 minutes that have way to pepper and cedar as it burned down. I ended up just sitting down and enjoying it. It was fantastic.

For those of you that have smoked a puro of both, would you say they have a similar flavor profile? I have seeds for vuelta but not criollo 98, and want to recreate this awesome cigar again, think I can do it with what I have? I noticed all the Cuban offspring have that similar flavor, I just wanted to be sure before next spring that the vuelta does too.

My wife normally gets me cigars for holidays, I told her to nix that, just get me whole leaf tobacco next time. Generally in the samplers she gets there is a couple really good ones, few medium ones and the rest I don't mind sharing with her dad hehe. That cigar yesterday was way better than the best I've had recently, I'm out of the Nicaraguan viso so got used to the real mild seco smokes and this was just a slice of heaven.

I just wanted to see if I grew the vuelta specifically for puros if anyone that's tried both thinks it'll make a cigar that is a close flavor to the criollo 98. Thanks
Both of those are I think everyones favorite leaf list. I have yet to taste Vuelta but I'm told to really do a Cuban blend justice ,it needs to be in there.

I just happen to have grown both Criollo 98 and Vuelta Abajo (along with a couple other Cuban origin variety of seed)...they are both in the barn right now color curing ....AND I saved seed...once I get around to cleaning the seed pods this winter Id be happy to send you some .If I get the leaf in the kiln and done by then you may get a nice little package other than seed. . PM me your address.
 

deluxestogie

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The seed I used came from Don as part of a grow-out. I did send some to BigB. I suspect that ALL of the Vuelta Abajo that people are growing originated in Ohio .

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1305600
Thank you for the GRIN PI. And thank you for sending me a sample of the leaf several years ago. It was an eye opener.

Talk about obtuse. GRIN lists the source as "South America," as though an entire continent is a meaningful location. And I don't even believe that.

Bob
 

SmokesAhoy

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Re: WLT Bezuki Wrapper

How sure are we that the jbd seed is the same as that pi? Is there an origin seed packet? Only reason I ask is because sometimes seed is really good but obtained thru trades or eBay etc. Do the pictures and description match the plant being grown? My seed is from jbd too, do you think it's worth it to do a side by side growout with seed obtained directly from the grin?
 

deluxestogie

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Re: WLT Bezuki Wrapper

My read of the situation is that the 405668 was ordered from GRIN by Don, at a time when the GRIN seed bank was essentially closed to requests. Around that time, Don transitioned from tobacco growing peon to tobacco shipping magnate.

The results that I've had from growing that particular Vuelta Abajo for several years have been excellent--my very best cigar filler.

Bob
 

FmGrowit

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Highly coincidental that this information presented itself today. I came to the forum to try to figure out which specialty crop I would attempt next year. Vuelta Abajo has always been in the back of my mind as a candidate, but now my hunch has been confirmed.

I'll try to do about 1/4 acre to see how it goes, then who knows what will happen afterward. I was thinking about buying a second-hand sauna to convert into a kiln, but I'm a little worried about introducing too much cedar to the tobacco. Maybe I can make a connection and just have it shipped to the DR for fermentation.

I think there is a market for exclusive, limited release tobaccos on a commercial scale. Maybe even market it as "heirloom".
 

Knucklehead

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I suspect that ALL of the Vuelta Abajo that people are growing originated in Ohio .
Mine actually came straight from GRIN. PI 405668. If you pull up accessions by Country and select Cuba, Vuelta Abajo PI 405668 is one of eight accessions they show originating from Cuba, although there may be others that are only referenced in the PDF of those varieties. I grew seven last year and grew the Vuelta Abajo this year. http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?25309
After following the link, Click List accessions by Country.

GRIN only lists the PI numbers so I'll add the name I got from each PDF of each variety. This will save you guys some time looking at each PDF for a name.
404935404935
404951404951
Coroja405643
#6055405645
Remedios404667
Vuelta Abajo405668
Little Cuba405669
Criollo (Ti 1376)405646

In addition, there are five varieties that the PDF's identify as coming from Cuba via Puerto Rico, including another Criollo (Ti 1547) with a different PI number.
Criollo (Ti 1547) 370313 filler Cuba via Puerto Rico
NF 73 370314 filler Cuba via Puerto Rico
NF 232 370315 filler Cuba via Puerto Rico
NF 2617 370316 filler Cuba via Puerto Rico
NFC 2 370317 filler Cuba via Puerto Rico
 

Knucklehead

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Highly coincidental that this information presented itself today. I came to the forum to try to figure out which specialty crop I would attempt next year. Vuelta Abajo has always been in the back of my mind as a candidate, but now my hunch has been confirmed.

I'll try to do about 1/4 acre to see how it goes, then who knows what will happen afterward. I was thinking about buying a second-hand sauna to convert into a kiln, but I'm a little worried about introducing too much cedar to the tobacco. Maybe I can make a connection and just have it shipped to the DR for fermentation.

I think there is a market for exclusive, limited release tobaccos on a commercial scale. Maybe even market it as "heirloom".
That sounds like a real winner!
 

Hasse SWE

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Maybe I can make a connection and just have it shipped to the DR for fermentation.

I think there is a market for exclusive, limited release tobaccos on a commercial scale. Maybe even market it as "heirloom".[/COLOR]
I think it's a great Idea, perhaps a small local thing to start with. But even small things can become great things. Also a start for something bigger.
 

Hasse SWE

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Mine actually came straight from GRIN. PI 405668. If you pull up accessions by Country and select Cuba, Vuelta Abajo PI 405668 is one of eight accessions they show originating from Cuba, although there may be others that are only referenced in the PDF of those varieties. I grew seven last year and grew the Vuelta Abajo this year. http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?25309
After following the link, Click List accessions by Country.

GRIN only lists the PI numbers so I'll add the name I got from each PDF of each variety. This will save you guys some time looking at each PDF for a name.
404935404935
404951404951
Coroja405643
#6055405645
Remedios404667
Vuelta Abajo405668
Little Cuba405669
Criollo (Ti 1376)405646

In addition, there are five varieties that the PDF's identify as coming from Cuba via Puerto Rico, including another Criollo (Ti 1547) with a different PI number.
Criollo (Ti 1547) 370313 filler Cuba via Puerto Rico
NF 73 370314 filler Cuba via Puerto Rico
NF 232 370315 filler Cuba via Puerto Rico
NF 2617 370316 filler Cuba via Puerto Rico
NFC 2 370317 filler Cuba via Puerto Rico
Think this is wonderful info for alot of people in here! Thanks for all time and energy you put in to ftt.
 

Smokin Harley

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Highly coincidental that this information presented itself today. I came to the forum to try to figure out which specialty crop I would attempt next year. Vuelta Abajo has always been in the back of my mind as a candidate, but now my hunch has been confirmed.

I'll try to do about 1/4 acre to see how it goes, then who knows what will happen afterward. I was thinking about buying a second-hand sauna to convert into a kiln, but I'm a little worried about introducing too much cedar to the tobacco. Maybe I can make a connection and just have it shipped to the DR for fermentation.

I think there is a market for exclusive, limited release tobaccos on a commercial scale. Maybe even market it as "heirloom".
Don, I grew Vuelta Abajo - 9 plants , it did great . Its a beautiful plant, very prolific here in northern IL. I have it all hanging up to color cure now. Most of it is already either in late yellow or mid brown phase. I also saved seed and have that bagged head currently drying . Once I clean the seed,would you like a sample ? Heres a question about seed for you...do you happen to have access to Piloto Cubano seed???
As for the sauna , the cedar in a sauna , isn't that usually western red or a white cedar?? The oils in those aren't good for cigar exposure.
 

Hasse SWE

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Smokin Harly: If you ain't find some can you send me a PM, I made a trade last year (and didn't ask for anything back) that guy had "Piloto" one his grow-list last year. I can ask for it..
 

Hasse SWE

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I think I have, I was thinking it was a type of cigars and not a variants. That's the way I remember It.
 

Hasse SWE

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If you have a source for Piloto Cubano ... I'm in.
Piloto Cubano is a hybrid and Thomas did not let em go in to flowers, so I am sorry.
I have asked some old friend about it but I don't think it will help/turn up in something good..

But if it does I will let you known..

//Hasse W
 
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