Whole Leaf Tobacco

"Dominican" ligero question, again

waikikigun

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I know I've asked this a couple times before over the last five years, but I can't remember the answer (or the most likely guesses) nor find the threads.

What strain is this Dominican ligero? Or what is it probably, according to the best guesses of the experts?


And, since there's no longer a "Dominican seco" listed, was the "Dominican seco" renamed as "Cibao Valley Dominican Seco"?

https://wholeleaftobacco.com/product/cibao-valley-dominican-seco/

Thanks!
 

deluxestogie

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Since most cigar varieties are now grown regularly in the DR, there is really no way to know, if it's not specified. The leaf in the photo could be anything. I am confident, from its appearance and taste comparisons, that "Dominican Binder" is Olor.

Bob
 

waikikigun

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Since most cigar varieties are now grown regularly in the DR, there is really no way to know, if it's not specified. The leaf in the photo could be anything. I am confident, from its appearance and taste comparisons, that "Dominican Binder" is Olor.

Bob
Thanks, I was specifically wondering whether it might be Olor: I've used all WLT leaf over the last five years and there's nothing quite like that "Dominican" one, which is to say it's different from the Corojo, Criollo, Piloto, SV, Habano, Flojo ones. But closest to the PC. You think if someone sent you a couple leaves you'd know what it was by looking at it/smoking it?
 

deluxestogie

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If I could see it growing, then maybe. Otherwise, probably not.

Bob

EDIT: The "binder" consisted of entire leaves, with the stem intact. Once they are froglegged, fermented and generally shriveled, they all look pretty much the same, and their taste varies with the batch.
 

waikikigun

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If I could see it growing, then maybe. Otherwise, probably not.

Bob

EDIT: The "binder" consisted of entire leaves, with the stem intact. Once they are froglegged, fermented and generally shriveled, they all look pretty much the same, and their taste varies with the batch.
All right. The ligero is froglegged and shriveled.
 

Knucklehead

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+1 on the Olor guesstimate. I’ve grown Olor and over the years have purchased all stalk positions of the Dominican available from WLT. It is great stuff.
 
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Knucklehead

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I have no idea if I still have some my home grown Olor in storage or not. Would leaf headed the other direction help answer your question? I can go rummage around.
Do you grow? I have Olor seed.
 

waikikigun

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I have no idea if I still have some my home grown Olor in storage or not. Would leaf headed the other direction help answer your question? I can go rummage around.
Do you grow? I have Olor seed.
I do not grow, but I have access to some other Olor which I am going to compare in otherwise identical blends to check it out. I know that won't be definitive, but it'll be one data point at least.
 

waikikigun

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Yes, the Dominican Binder is Olor. I'm not sure why I'm keeping it such a secret.
Yes, the Traditional Dominican Seco and Ligero have been replaced with Cibao Valley Dominican Seco and Ligero. I'll find out what variety it is.
Yeah, my feeling re: the binder and the "Dominican," from a marketing standpoint, is that most people would rather buy something labeled "filet mignon" than "mystery meat," everything else being equal.

Also, you don't have any items currently called Olor, whereas one of the other leaf retailers does.

Further, Olor is frequently mentioned in the blends of various popular brands that some people might want to attempt to imitate.

To be clear, are you saying that the CV Dominican are a different thing than the "Dominican" was; or just that they've been shuttled over to the CV section and renamed (in the case of the seco but not the ligero?)

Thanks in advance for checking out what that "Dominican" is.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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My experience is that they are different. The CV Dominican seco is a very large leaf. I think it's the largest that WLT carries. Takes up almost the whole bag. Flavour is not so smooth and chocolatey, and is much more fermenty. Even if it is olor, it's not substitute.
 

FmGrowit

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Yeah, my feeling re: the binder and the "Dominican," from a marketing standpoint, is that most people would rather buy something labeled "filet mignon" than "mystery meat," everything else being equal.

Also, you don't have any items currently called Olor, whereas one of the other leaf retailers does.

Further, Olor is frequently mentioned in the blends of various popular brands that some people might want to attempt to imitate.

To be clear, are you saying that the CV Dominican are a different thing than the "Dominican" was; or just that they've been shuttled over to the CV section and renamed (in the case of the seco but not the ligero?)

Thanks in advance for checking out what that "Dominican" is.
The only way I can answer that question is to try to find out what variety the "Traditional Filler" was. The Cibao Valley Dominican is from a different grower. All of the Cibao Valley tobaccos undergo a longer fermentation than the Traditional does.
 

Tutu

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In that case it's even more likely to be Olor as it has been around for longer than Piloto Cubano. Within Olor there are also various sub-varieties like Olor Papayo, Pitrinche and Quin Díaz. I've only ever seen the first two of those but I think they are all difficult to tell apart. Definitely from a picture.
 

FmGrowit

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Here's the reply I received to the question

"What variety is your Dominican Seco and Ligero?"
A: "Dominican smell"

This translates from English to Spanish as...Olor Dominica.

Additional volunteered information...
"I have an original pilot, also an improved pilot. and corojo 2006, urinal corojo, corojo 99. original creole ingest creole 99 '
"all that tabacco are Cubans seeds. sown Dominican Republic."
@Tutu might be able to translate these for us. (?)
 
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Tutu

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As you're mentioning, the word "olor" literally translates to "smell" so indeed we're talking Olor here.
In the additional info it's referring to different seedlines of Piloto Cubano, Criollo and Corojo, that were brought here from Cuba over 50 years ago.
People grow different seedlines in different regions. La Canela is a very popular region, Jacagua, Villa Gonzalez, Navarette.
I've heard various farmers distinguish between "original" Criollo and "Criollo Mejorado", which would literally translate as "Improved Criollo".
The same is probably the case for you description of Piloto Cubano, where he talks about the "original" and the "improved".
The question is to what extend the "original" is still "original", and to what extend it differs from the "improved" version of which they are keeping seeds.
This is difficult for me to tell. Apart from that, the differences between Olor, Piloto Cubano and Criollo are relatively easy to tell apart.
I do not know many small farmers here growing Corojo, although I am sure that the larger manufacturer-owned farms grow Corojo.
Over the past years, a lot of farmers started doing trials growing PA41 and Broadleaf, I believe with limited success.

"Original creole ingest" probably refers to Criollo Filler (as tripa (filler) translates to intestines).
 

waikikigun

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Here's the reply I received to the question

"What variety is your Dominican Seco and Ligero?"
A: "Dominican smell"

This translates from English to Spanish as...Olor Dominica.

Additional volunteered information...
"I have an original pilot, also an improved pilot. and corojo 2006, urinal corojo, corojo 99. original creole ingest creole 99 '
"all that tabacco are Cubans seeds. sown Dominican Republic."
@Tutu might be able to translate these for us. (?)
Thanks very much for checking that out.

I must tell you, your current batch of Dominican Smell ligero, of which there are only 6 remaining pounds listed, is the best ligero you've got right now, IMHO.

Previous to that, you had a "Dominican ligero," around 2015, that was great and very popular with me and many of my rolling friends; and then one day that batch changed and we never got the same thrill from that Dominican ligero again.

But now, ironically--since it's from a different source and such--this new CV version of Dominican Smell ligero brings back the same thrill. I know the import situation is tough/impossible right now; and that you've said you only move the secos. But that is one ligero SKU I would be sad to see go away. It "plays" with other leaves better than the others, which is key. So many leaves are fine by themselves or with another leaf or two, but then with most other leaves the blend just crashes. This is one ligero that will not crash a blend and will usually enhance it. I guess that's the magic of Olor, and probably one reason why it is such a standard for binder.
 

deluxestogie

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The question is to what extend the "original" is still "original", and to what extend it differs from the "improved" version of which they are keeping seeds.
From my own growing, and selection of "best" plants from which to produce seed, I've seen individual varieties change noticeably in only two generations. Grower selection seems to easily alter some varieties toward thicker or thinner leaves, broader or narrower leaves, and larger (more productive) or smaller leaves. My greatest success at such a selection resulted in what I call Piloto Cubano PR Broad. My Piloto Cubano (seed originally from Puerto Rico, via @ChinaVoodoo) is now larger leaf, broader leaf, higher leaf count, and a much taller plant height--in just 3 seasons of selection.

Bob
 

FmGrowit

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I'm hearing rumbles of things getting back to normal sooner than later. The world economy is bursting at the seams and can not be restrained much longer. My biggest fear is that the unnatural attempt to "help" will flood the economy with cash and hyper-inflation will be right on the heals of the recovery.

I'm going to try to head off any cost increases by purchasing now in hopes it will ship as soon as it can. I will be sure to include the CV Dominican Olor along with the several new varieties already on the list.
 
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