First Rolls from WLT Kit

[Audette]

Rolled my first cigars lastnight/tonight. I purchased the Terroso Profundo kit (Habano 2000 Wrapper, Dominican Binder, Corojo 99 Seco, Criollo 98 Ligero, Dominican Seco) from WLT to try and replicate a similar taste as some of my favorite cigars, in the 42rg that's hard to find at the local shops.

I am really particular about things so I thought this would be a good/fun challenge and it proved to be. I read a lot of the posts and recommendations from past first roller posts and watched a few bliss cigar co. YouTube videos. Because I am particular and had the extra money, I decided to get a 42rg mold from leaf only. I'm only 15 minutes down the road from them and it took about a week and a half to get - I couldnt go pick it up because of covid and they didnt allow curbside pickup but I didnt think it would take that long - where as the shipping from WLT was incredibly fast so I had the chance to watch and read more befor driving in.

As far as the caseing, I had no problem with this, other than my Seco was too crunchy and at one point had a leaf crumble to bits in my hand while bunching, my binders were good except the second one. I left it out while bunching/watching a how to video/rolling. So it became too dry but I tried and used it anyway. My Viso and Ligero bunched very well and I feel like were the perfect balance of flex:crinkle so I got lucky. The Viso and Ligero leaves did have similar color though so it was difficult the tell the two apart in the bunch.

I bunched and rolled in the binder 4 cigars last night put them in the mold and rotated this morning 90* and they stayed for another 10hrs (18hr total in mold) I wanted to do this to help dry them out and do to when I'd be able to roll again. Last night I cased the 3 wrapper leaves for 4 cigars just in case - I only tore one half of one leaf practicing my spreading and pulling technique while wrapping.

All went well except for the glue in the kit. I definitely added too much water, but hoped it would thicken up over night which it didn't. So I googled a quick search and found pectin and water would work, so I ran to the store and grabbed some. Its definitely sticky, I hope it dries appropriately. It also had a sweet taste to it. I just read about the tapioca, I may give that a shot.

The pictures are my attempts, from left to right 1-4 next to a factory I am trying to replicate. #3 was the best. I found that if I aligned the veins In the wrapper leaf to run vertical the better they came out, visually. I definitely have a side of the leaf I prefer which allowed my dominant side to work well. I opted to not flag/cap because of the glue situation.

I couldn't resist trying one after about an hour. It wasn't bad but definitely needed to dry more, so it burned slowly but I was excited about the construction. I have wrapped these in brown shipping paper to try and help keep the shape if the glue doesnt hold while they dry out.

How long do you usually let them rest for before you smoke them? Do you keep them in a humidor, or leave them out?

Thanks,

Tony

 

[waikikigun]

Awesome write-up and great first rolls. Too bad about the glue, though. Looking forward to seeing your capwork.

My style of casing means everything is dry to the touch at construction time, no dampness. So next-day smoking is often fine. With a smidge of dampness at roll time then I find "sickness" starts at about two days and lasts a few weeks, during which I can get a misperception that the blend was bad if I smoke it.

I leave them out and just smoke them from the drying table, because I rarely achieve a surplus of more than 50 cigars. The RH here is in the 50 to 80 range.

 

[Mathaious12]

First off your sticks look good.

How long I let them rest depends on when I want to smoke it and the rh in the room. If I want to smoke soon I'll leave it out till it has the feel of a stick that's at the proper humidity. This could take an hour to a couple of days depending on the ambient rh of your house. I have gotten to the point that I have enough to smoke that most of what I'm rolling now will get aged at least 3 weeks, so I use the fresh rolled to recharge my heartfelt beads. If you want to smoke something same day, like what @waikikigun wrote roll with things a little drier and you should be good.

 

[MarcL]

Wow, that is really impressive.
Depending on conditions set by my prep on the leaf, assembly and drying conditions will determine the smokability schedule. Drying consists of stages based on conditions within.
The glue will dry in the open air. It is best served to mix with less water to start. Water can always be added.

 

[IXanadu]

Great job on your first roll. Great looking sticks. I had the same problem with the glue and used beef gelatin. It turned to jello too quickly, but I made it work. I wasn't as successful, because I fooled myself into thinking I would remember everything when the tobacco was on the table. I didn't. I smoked two within the first 48 hours and loved the taste. Smoked 2 on day three after thoroughly dry and liked one OK, and didn't like one at all. Funny enough, it was the one that "looked" the best. I'm not going to judge myself too harshly until I get 100 sticks under my belt. I'm doing this as a hobby, not necessarily to save money - I buy all kinds of sticks, but so far haven't found anything under $6.50 that I would smoke a second time. I "think", with time, I'll be able to have a $1.75-3.00 stick that I'll enjoy smoking.

 

[Audette]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the great feed back about drying, the ambient rh in the room I store these in floated between 64-74rh when I would remember to look at the hydrometer/thermometer on the desk.

I made a second attempt and did a few things differently, I had the time so thought I would roll more than 4 in one sitting:

1) I went to the store (3 actually) in search of tapioca flour/powder - each store was sold out. One had the Tapioca pellets but I really didn't feel like mashing them up into a powder. So I ended up picking up XANTHAN GUM, which is a gluten replacement for gluten free baking/thickener for gravies. I mixed it to an 8:1 ratio of warm distilled water and the gum to try to achieve the snot consistency...... I probably could have used more water but it spread pretty well and it kept the leafs together well (I tested in on some scraps the night before)

2) The Dominican Saco in the kit was super dry to the point it crumbled the first time around and that was terribly frustrating, so I lightly cased them to be able to tube them without crumbling but they still had some crunch. I also took the other fillers and put them in a trash bag with 2 sprays from the squirt bottle to keep them from getting too dry from being on the bench.

3) The Corojo 99 Seco and Criollo 98 Ligero had a very similar dark color to them, so I thought I would try bunching my filler differently, it took some time though. For the 42rg I used 3 filler leaves - based on the bliss cigar co video I was watching (thankfully he was doing 42rg so not much thought was involve for me) 1 Dominican Seco, 1 Corojo 99 Seco, 1 Criollo 98 Ligero. I cut the stems out of each leaf and set them aside then tubed/bunched based on color. So it went (1/2 leaf each each tube) Dominican Seco, Corojo 99 Seco, Criollo 98 Ligero, all 3 stems, Criollo 98 Ligero, Corojo 99 Seco, Dominican Seco. This made sense to me to try and get the darkest leafs in the middle while keeping the stems in the middle to keep from tunneling - I have no idea if this will actually have any effect other than pacifying my anal retentiveness. - you may be able to see it in some of the pictures of the foot of the cigar.

4) I used an empty glass bottle to roll the veins of the binder and wrapper leaf in an attempt to help them lay/roll flatter. Doing so actually made rolling a bit more difficult as the veins stuck to the leaf or it caused the vein to puncture and make a hole in the leaf. It also made spreading/pulling the leaf a real chore when wrapping and the little punctures caused them to propagate into a tear when actually wrapping - my wrappers were also more dry then they were last time. I will not do it again.

5) Once in the mold I rotated them after 15 minutes to make the creases less noticeable and then let them sit overnight to aid in drying.

On to how these changes effected the rolling/cigars. Doing the bunching method outlined in 3 in conjunction with the rolled out binder leaf - I didn't put much pressure on the binder leaf when rolling so they cam out pretty fat and loose. Because of this when I put them in the mold the binder leaf was over flowing and when I went to close the mold it pinched the leaf off creating a line gap - see attached pictures. So I know I need to pay more attention to rolling them a little tighter next time before placing them in the mold. Now reflecting on it I also know I could have just re-rolled them before putting them into the mold.

Attempting to put the wrapper on with the flattened & more dry leaf was a serious exercise in finding the balance between stretching the leaf and not tearing it. You'll see there were some tears at the edges, I used the Xanthan gum mix lightly to make sure the tears stayed without getting worse.

The Xanthan Gum - as far as glue works great, but leaves a starchy looking residue - Like when you/someone uses to much starch when ironing a uniform or dress shirt and it comes out looking shiny on the creases.

I did roll one with all of the driest leafs I had to smoke it right away - the flavor of the cigar/blend was FANTASTIC I really could not believe how enjoyable it was. To my pallet it had a mixture of flavors from a Caldwell The King is Dead and Espinosa Laranja Reserva which are two of my favorite cigars and was what I was trying to replicate. I am excited to see how they taste once they have some age on them.

Moving forward I probably wont roll more than 3-4 in a sitting just because of time, getting the casing right and not running out of patience. To IXanadu's point I picked it up as a hobby as well as to try avoid spending $8-14+ each time I go to a cigar shop trying to find a good cigar I would buy again.

I went on WLT to try and buy more of the same kit but they were sold out, which was a bummer. So I went looking for the individual leaves, they are out of the Hab 2000 wrapper which is okay I can try something new. But to my point of only rolling 3-4 cigars at a time I will need to store the leafs. How do you store yours to prevent mold or excessively drying out? I was thinking of the small plastic tubs with maybe a couple humi packs to help. If I bought the leafs individually I am looking at storing up to ~5 lbs of leafs.

Thanks for any help guys!

 

[deluxestogie]

For storage of WLT leaf, carefully cut the sealed end of the bag the leaf is shipped in. After accessing the tobacco, roll the end closed, and clamp it with two or three wooden clothespins. The bags are vapor-proof, and if properly re-closed, will maintain their current moisture for at least many months.

Bob

 

[waikikigun]

Another very interesting write-up, thanks for doing it and sharing it. A few details stick out, but you're just starting and doing great and will sort out the fundamentals with time. Congrats on making a blend that you loved!

 

[Audette]

Bob - Thank you for the info, I'll be sure to do that! I'll order those leafs now.

Waikikigun - I didn't realize you were Bliss Cigar Co, thanks for making all the videos on your YouTube channel, they are incredibly helpful! I also have some plugged Cuban H. Uppmanns so once I get more comfortable I'll try to unroll them and harvest that tobacco. When you have the time I'd love to hear what the few details are, at this point I don't want to develop any bad habits.

 

[FmGrowit]

If any of you place an order, remember to request samples of the new stuff. I'm creating new website pages for them now, but I don't know when they will be completed.

 

[waikikigun]

If any of you place an order, remember to request samples of the new stuff. I'm creating new website pages for them now, but I don't know when they will be completed.

Can one somehow buy pounds of the new stuff before it's up on the pages?

 

[JayT]

If any of you place an order, remember to request samples of the new stuff. I'm creating new website pages for them now, but I don't know when they will be completed.

haha just placed an order last night .. figured if I waited I would just have that much more of a bill once newer stuff hit..Didn't put a request for samples in though

 

[Audette]

Ah I just put my order in before I checked back in. Is there anyway I can request retro actively on order #25594? Is so that would be great!

So because they were out of the blend kit and the HAB 2000 wrapper this is what I ordered to try to replicate it:

Criollo 98 Wrapper, 1lb.
Dominican Olor Cigar Binder, 1lb.
Corojo 99 Filler Tobacco, Seco, 1lb
Criollo 98 Ligero, 1lb
Cibao Valley Vuelta Abajo Hab. Seco, 1lb.

For reference the kit was: Habano 2000 Wrapper, Dominican Binder, Corojo 99 Seco, Criollo 98 Ligero, Dominican Seco

 

[deluxestogie]

@Audette, you might want to PM FmGrowit directly, with order questions.

Bob

 

[waikikigun]

Waikikigun - I didn't realize you were Bliss Cigar Co, thanks for making all the videos on your YouTube channel, they are incredibly helpful! I also have some plugged Cuban H. Uppmanns so once I get more comfortable I'll try to unroll them and harvest that tobacco. When you have the time I'd love to hear what the few details are, at this point I don't want to develop any bad habits.

Yeah, that's me! I'm glad you've enjoyed the videos. You're welcome. Re-wrapping Cubans is definitely fun, and not too hard.

 

[Audette]

Hey guys,

I just finished my 3rd rolling session taking into account the details I learned from my first and second rollings. I only rolled 3 in this sitting and it seemed good in the sense that I wasn't rushing, things weren't drying out and at the end of it I still wanted to roll more, I wasn't burnt out.

I did dissect one of the Cuban H Uppmann's I had the was plugged. I soaked it in water to make things pliable again unrolled it to see the construction. Once unrolled I wiped the excess water off and let them dry again. I plan to re-use all the tobacco in it and thankfully I like my cigars shorter then what I pulled apart so I get to reuse the wrapper already.

I didnt use the crazy bunching technique I did on the second batch, just the standard method from the video. I also rolled them in the binder tighter than before. They fit in the mold great with no tears and after pressing the draw was good - not to loose and not too tight.

I tried to do some caps but was still unsuccessful at it, I was thinking about waiting until the cigars have dried out a little so I'm not tearing or messing the tops up.

 

[waikikigun]

Hey guys,

I just finished my 3rd rolling session taking into account the details I learned from my first and second rollings. I only rolled 3 in this sitting and it seemed good in the sense that I wasn't rushing, things weren't drying out and at the end of it I still wanted to roll more, I wasn't burnt out.

I did dissect one of the Cuban H Uppmann's I had the was plugged. I soaked it in water to make things pliable again unrolled it to see the construction. Once unrolled I wiped the excess water off and let them dry again. I plan to re-use all the tobacco in it and thankfully I like my cigars shorter then what I pulled apart so I get to reuse the wrapper already.

I didnt use the crazy bunching technique I did on the second batch, just the standard method from the video. I also rolled them in the binder tighter than before. They fit in the mold great with no tears and after pressing the draw was good - not to loose and not too tight.

I tried to do some caps but was still unsuccessful at it, I was thinking about waiting until the cigars have dried out a little so I'm not tearing or messing the tops up.

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Seems like you're doing a killer job, even if I would never soak down filler like that for fear of triggering something nasty. I guess if it dries well before you roll it then it should be fine, huh? But I never had to soak anything to deconstruct or reconstruct it. Otoh I never managed to deconstruct the caps as well as you did. Really cool!

People ask me about once a day where they can get Cuban tobacco.

"In your humidor."

 

[Audette]

Even if I would never soak down filler like that for fear of triggering something nasty. I guess if it dries well before you roll it then it should be fine, huh?

I'll admit I definitely soaked it for longer than it needed to be, but I wanted to make sure when I unrolled it I could see how they did it without losing too much of the 'blueprint' from having the tobacco crumble. After I deconstructed it I made sure to pat the excess water off and left it out on the bench spread out to avoid anything growing, once it was mostly dry it put it in a bag. When I checked it today it is all about as damp as a wrapper would be at rolling. To the touch it was uniformly damp, so hopefully that will help prevent any hot spots or funk growing.

I am really excited to use it, anyone who has bought standard Cubans has atleast a few that were plugged, now I can take the mild cigar and blend it with the Ligero I know I like and see how it comes out, even if it doesn't turn out great not really loosing anything, at least I got to smoke something.

My buddy and I each smoked 1 from the 3 I made yesterday after our motorcycle ride today. The construction was way better, the flavor was lacking a bit for me, then I remembered I only rolled only 1 with Ligero the other 2 were all seco, but didnt mark which was which. My buddy loved his

I think the hardest part for me will be to let them get some time on them.

Tony

 

[Charly]

Congratulations, very nices first sticks !