First time trying to grow from seed - container flooded, did I ruin it?: @CharlieFranks

[CharlieFranks]

Howdy everyone. New guy here. I decided to try growing some tobacco from seed and everything has been going along nicely for weeks. Bought a pack of Virginia Gold on ebay, added it to a container of soil, been spritzing for weeks and was so happy to see some growth. I decided to leave the container out in the Florida sun one day to give it some extra light after it was on a covered patio.

Unfortunately a Florida thunder rolled up and the container got completely flooded. It's been another two weeks since and everything seems stunted. Nothing has really grown anymore and the are just flopping there in the dirt.

Can I recover this or do I need to toss it all and start over?

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum. Feel free to introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum. Read the New Growers' FAQ, and scan through the topics in our Index of Key Forum Threads. Both are linked in the menu bar.

Bob

 

[Old Gasman]

Is that a glass casserole dish? Try again in a proper seed tray with drain holes in the bottom if it is.

 

[Alpine]

Welcome to FTT.

pier

 

[Frelono]

If there's life there's hope. But start some new ones in a proper growing container just in case. They really don't like to much water on their roots.

 

[CharlieFranks]

If there's life there's hope. But start some new ones in a proper growing container just in case. They really don't like to much water on their roots.

I was just spritzing the top of them with a spray bottle for weeks before the unfortunate rain event had it swimming in water. I tried to drain it by pouring it over and then the whole thing flopped right out of the container and onto the ground. Scooped up what I could and this is the result. When you say they dont like water on the roots, how do you water them then? I see the guide and it does say to water them but with the drainage, the water will just come out of the bottom?

Is that a glass casserole dish? Try again in a proper seed tray with drain holes in the bottom if it is.

It's a plastic kitchen food container thing, pretty flimsy. You mean the black ones right that are a bunch per pack? I have been recommended to go that route, I am going to have to try this again. Everything was going so well too, I was very excited.

 

[deluxestogie]

you say they dont like water on the roots

The container for germination does not require drain holes. Before sprinkling seed on the soil, add enough water to the soil in the container to moisten it all. Sprinkle seed on the surface, then leave the container closed until seed begins to germinate. Once germinated, transfer individual seedlings into their separate seedling containers. [I recommend 1020 trays and inserts for this.]

Growing tobacco plants drown in standing water, but the growing seedlings in their individual containers need to be watered from the bottom, and not misted. So, holes in the bottom of the seedling containers, with a tray beneath. Add water as needed to the tray.

Bob

 

[Knucklehead]

I was just spritzing the top of them with a spray bottle for weeks before the unfortunate rain event had it swimming in water. I tried to drain it by pouring it over and then the whole thing flopped right out of the container and onto the ground. Scooped up what I could and this is the result. When you say they dont like water on the roots, how do you water them then? I see the guide and it does say to water them but with the drainage, the water will just come out of the bottom?

It's a plastic kitchen food container thing, pretty flimsy. You mean the black ones right that are a bunch per pack? I have been recommended to go that route, I am going to have to try this again. Everything was going so well too, I was very excited.

I posted a link in another thread to the place where I buy my trays and seedling propagation heat mats. You may not need the heat mats in Fla.

hello guys are they dead

I use 1020 trays no holes. I use it as a water reservoir and to hold the cells together. https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/collections/trays-flats/products/1020-trays-heavy-duty?variant=42703414722759 I mostly use 48 cell inserts separated into 4 cell packs...

fairtradetobacco.com

 

[CharlieFranks]

I posted a link in another thread to the place where I buy my trays and seedling propagation heat mats. You may not need the heat mats in Fla.

hello guys are they dead

I use 1020 trays no holes. I use it as a water reservoir and to hold the cells together. https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/collections/trays-flats/products/1020-trays-heavy-duty?variant=42703414722759 I mostly use 48 cell inserts separated into 4 cell packs...

fairtradetobacco.com

I will order them and provide an update when they arrive. 1020 tray with no holes and the 1203 3 cells/pack 12 packs/insert to go in it with drainage holes, right?

The container for germination does not require drain holes. Before sprinkling seed on the soil, add enough water to the soil in the container to moisten it all. Sprinkle seed on the surface, then leave the container closed until seed begins to germinate. Once germinated, transfer individual seedlings into their separate seedling containers. [I recommend 1020 trays and inserts for this.]

Growing tobacco plants drown in standing water, but the growing seedlings in their individual containers need to be watered from the bottom, and not misted. So, holes in the bottom of the seedling containers, with a tray beneath. Add water as needed to the tray.

Bob

Luckily this is how I started them. I kept it covered and just misted from the top until it started to grow. The ones you see in my picture are from that method. How do you pluck out individual seedlings and transfer them? They look so tiny and delicate. How large should they get before moving them?

How do you "water from the bottom" like everyone says? You add the water to the tray that the seed packs are sitting in? How does the water travel up to the tobacco plant itself then if its so tiny?

 

[deluxestogie]

The lattice tray on the bottom allows you to move the tray assembly easily. The 1020 tray without holes holds the water. The 1020 tray with holes avoids too much water in the cell inserts. I prefer 48-cell insert packs, and label each 4-pack (one variety) with a wooden Popsicle stick. Water enough to keep the mix in the cell inserts moist. I water by lifting out one 4-pack, and pouring water into the tray with holes, that lies beneath it. Start with 1½ to 2 quarts of water per tray.

As soon as a germinating seed shows a tiny, white radicle, it can be lifted with a toothpick, and placed into a soil divot in a cell—not covered with soil. A seedling with a pair of cotyledon leaves can usually be plucked from the moist germination soil with forceps, grasping a bit of soil surrounding the root, rather than the seedling. That is placed into a soil divot in a cell, and the root carefully covered with soil, then the soil misted with water to settle it around the root.

If the seedlings within the germination container have tightly entangled roots, then lift out a clump of them, and add enough water to disentangle them for transfer to cells.

Bob

 

[CharlieFranks]

Back to the picture I posted again on the first post, are these green sprouts, that have a tiny thing white stalk, considered germinating with cotyledon leaves?

Are these what I pluck out and put into individual containers?

 

[Knucklehead]

How do you "water from the bottom" like everyone says? You add the water to the tray that the seed packs are sitting in? How does the water travel up to the tobacco plant itself then if its so tiny?

The cells are perforated. I separate one of the four pack cells and set it aside so I can water into the tray beneath. I then return the 4 pack to the tray. A good seed starting mix will wick up the proper amount of water. If you use regular potting soil it would be helpful to strain out the wood chunks. They can create air pockets that stop the wicking action, can cause problems for the tiny developing roots by forcing them to find a way around the chunks, and they retain moisture differently than the soil which creates uneven watering to the seedlings.

 

[Knucklehead]

Back to the picture I posted again on the first post, are these green sprouts, that have a tiny thing white stalk, considered germinating with cotyledon leaves?

Are these what I pluck out and put into individual containers?

Yes. Many members do it that way. I just overseed directly into the cells and then start thinning inferior seedlings until I have the best looking seedlings remaining, one per cell. They look like little tobacco chia pets. I pluck out with tweezers and toss them. The end result is the same. One healthy seedling per cell.

 

[CharlieFranks]

The cells are perforated. I separate one of the four pack cells and set it aside so I can water into the tray beneath. I then return the 4 pack to the tray. A good seed starting mix will wick up the proper amount of water. If you use regular potting soil it would be helpful to strain out the wood chunks. They can create air pockets that stop the wicking action, can cause problems for the tiny developing roots by forcing them to find a way around the chunks, and they retain moisture differently than the soil which creates uneven watering to the seedlings.

How much water do you add? I know this is a basic question but I have only watered stuff my whole life from the top down. If the seedlings are so tiny how much are you adding to the bottom tray to have enough water to go all the way up to the root?

 

[deluxestogie]

How much water

Set up a container without seeding it. Add water to the bottom. Wait a bit, then touch the surface with your fingertip. If it feels damp, then that is enough. If it feels dry, add more water to the bottom. Record how much water it takes.

Plan B: Insert a wooden Popsicle stick into a cell or container, then watch for moisture rising within the wood.

Bob

 

[Knucklehead]

How much water do you add? I know this is a basic question but I have only watered stuff my whole life from the top down. If the seedlings are so tiny how much are you adding to the bottom tray to have enough water to go all the way up to the root?

Using 1020 trays I fill to about 1/3 depth of the tray maximum. Starting seed in the cells, I maintain some water in the tray all the time until the seed have sprouted and the seedlings have put down roots. You don't want the soil to dry out during germination. The proper seedling starting mix will wick the proper amount of moisture all the way up to the top of the soil. I use Miracle Grow Seed Starting Potting Mix. Others make their own, others strain the chunks out of regular potting soil. If there is any water in the tray at all, the proper soil will wick the moisture up the soil column. Like a wick in an old lantern. If I fill the tray 1/2 way, rather than 1/3, I see too much moisture and green algae will form. Too much. Tobacco can drown easily. I also worry about damping off and other problems. Once the seedlings are about dime sized, start letting the soil dry out between waterings. This forces the roots to go down in search of moisture and the roots will fill the cell. If there is always moisture, the roots don't have to go down and the root system remains near the top of the soil in the cell. The stronger root system will have a better chance of survival when transplanted outdoors and they are easier to transplant if the roots fill the soil. They make a nice plug. If there are only small roots near the top of the soil, the plug is hard to work with and alot of the soil will just fall away from the roots. You end up almost planting bare root and they will flop around alot until established.

https://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Gro-Starting-currently-Northeastern-Midwestern/dp/B00GTDIDBU/ref=asc_df_B00GTDIDBU?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80195747038897&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583795275036873&psc=1

 

[CharlieFranks]

Can soil wick too much water up?

I am trying the method, I put water under the tray and let the soil soak upwards. I used potting soil though as I did not see seed starting soil at the store I was at. After I let the trays sit in the water it seemed like it was completely soaked in there. Is there a way to regulate it so I am not flooding the soil by having it soak up all the water?

How often should I be putting water under the individual pots to let it soak up the right amount? I figured it would self regulate but instead it just almost became mud. It's open at the bottom like suggested here but the stuff didnt come dripping out, just sucked it all up because it was some thirsty dirt.

I did start another tray of seeds since I wrecked the first and they have started to sprout..



This is the stage I need to move them to the individual containers, or at least a few to a container and they can be transported with just a toothpick? I dont need to "plant" them so much as I just have to put it on top of the soil in the containers?

 

[deluxestogie]

Of course, different soils have different holding capacities. Each soil type, when allowed to drain at the bottom, will retain water at different levels, called the perched water table. Insert a wooden Popsicle stick into the container, and it will serve as an indicator of when you need to add water. The soil in you last photo looks like coarse debris.

When I transfer tiny, recently germinated seedlings into 1020 cells, I first make a ¼-½ inch-deep divot in the center of the receiving soil with my fingertip, then lay the new seedling into the side of that divot, and scoot a bit of soil over the root. Settle-in with a sprits of water at the margins. After that, only water from the bottom.

Bob

 

[CharlieFranks]

The first picture is just random stuff I pulled out of a planter, that is what I use to get the seeds started. Seems to be working as they sprout right up.

This is the potting soil I got for the smaller containers:




Never heard of the popsicle stick method, not that I have ever tried to grow anything though so of course I wouldn't have, I looked it up. I found this video with a shopstick. Same concept?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCZ9ySqwzpQ

When starting out how much water should be in the soil? The roots dont look very long right now so it will have to be higher to start so it will get some water? Can the soil be "too wet" since it has the drainage ability at the bottom or once it sucks up the water it could easily kill off the tiny seedlings since they are prone to drowning so easily?

 

[deluxestogie]

Note the water wicking up the stick. How much water you need to add depends on your soil.

Bob