How are the dark air-cured leaves at WLT aged?

[nunapitchuk]

I purchase dark air cured leaves from Whole Leaf Tobacco. They are soft, dark, and sticky. They come in 1# vacuum sealed bags. They make the best dip. I grew some dark variety leaves a year ago and cured them for a couple of months and ended up with leaves that looked very similar to those I purchase from WLT, but when I made a batch of dip from them it was awful. Nasty taste. I was told it was ammonia and other compounds and the leaves have to be aged. My question is how are the leaves I buy from WLT aged so that they remain soft and don't dry out?

 

[slouch]

I purchase dark air cured leaves from Whole Leaf Tobacco. They are soft, dark, and sticky. They come in 1# vacuum sealed bags. They make the best dip. I grew some dark variety leaves a year ago and cured them for a couple of months and ended up with leaves that looked very similar to those I purchase from WLT, but when I made a batch of dip from them it was awful. Nasty taste. I was told it was ammonia and other compounds and the leaves have to be aged. My question is how are the leaves I buy from WLT aged so that they remain soft and don't dry out?

I would assume that wlt buys them in bulk in bales that have already been sitting and aging before they are sold. There are many different ways to age your homegrown leaf all with slightly varying results. If you are patient you can just jar your tobacco in low case and burp the air every once in a while, but that would require several months or years to ferment. Your second option would be to press the tobacco into a plug or cake which would take a couple weeks or months. Your third option would be to build yourself a kiln to keep your tobacco hot and hydrated which will also be a month or two process. I am far from an expert so maybe someone will want to chime in and add their two cents.

 

[deluxestogie]

The dark air-cured varieties that I have grown were color-cured in the shed, then left hanging throughout the winter and spring. Then they were kilned for 2 months (123°F-128°F @ high humidity). After kilning, they were aired and rested for several months prior to use. The greater the age, the smoother the taste and aroma.

Nearly all whole leaf tobacco that is sold to consumers is at least a year old, but often several years old. With tobacco, time (or a kiln) transitions the leaf from its initial, raw taste to the more mellow leaf we expect.

Bob

 

[nunapitchuk]

I would assume that wlt buys them in bulk in bales that have already been sitting and aging before they are sold. There are many different ways to age your homegrown leaf all with slightly varying results. If you are patient you can just jar your tobacco in low case and burp the air every once in a while, but that would require several months or years to ferment. Your second option would be to press the tobacco into a plug or cake which would take a couple weeks or months. Your third option would be to build yourself a kiln to keep your tobacco hot and hydrated which will also be a month or two process. I am far from an expert so maybe someone will want to chime in and add their two cents.

Thanks for responding. So, you think that the WLT gets the dark air cured leaves in large "bales" that have already aged a year or more. Do you think that the leaves are aged in those bales? Can you describe or link how the bales are put together or look like? I don't understand what "jar your tobacco in low case" means. Can you explain? I will look up the kiln idea, but it's probably not practical for me. Thanks again for responding to my question.
Frank.

 

[Knucklehead]

tobacco bale images at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

some of the images show the baling machine.

 

[nunapitchuk]

The dark air-cured varieties that I have grown were color-cured in the shed, then left hanging throughout the winter and spring. Then they were kilned for 2 months (123°F-128°F @ high humidity). After kilning, they were aired and rested for several months prior to use. The greater the age, the smoother the taste and aroma.

Nearly all whole leaf tobacco that is sold to consumers is at least a year old, but often several years old. With tobacco, time (or a kiln) transitions the leaf from its initial, raw taste to the more mellow leaf we expect.

Bob

Thanks for responding Bob. If you left the cured leaves to hang didn't they completely dry out and become brittle? Or did they freeze? When you "air rested" them for several months what did you do exactly? I have 6 large plants with huge beautiful sticky leaves right now that are just beginning to yellow a little. I have a plastic covered enclosure in my garage with a humidifier in it so I can cure them. The humidity here is very low. Last time I tried they got so dry that they broke apart when touched. I want to replicate the leaves that I buy from WLT, but I don't know what exactly they do with them or for how long. I appreciate any advice I can get.
Frank.

 

[nunapitchuk]

tobacco bale images at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

some of the images show the baling machine.

I see now. Do you think the leaves are aged for long periods of time in those large bales? I'm guessing that being squeezed together in a large bale keeps them from drying out. How could I replicate the same effect with a much smaller amount of leaves?
Frank.

 

[deluxestogie]

You are misconstruing supply chain necessities for a strategy. To get the fully color-cured, loose leaf from a tobacco farm to a market requires baling it to the dimensions and weight expected by that particular market. Shipping, auctioning, shipping again, warehousing, sorting, portioning, repackaging...all of this requires months or more of aging that just happens to happen.

At their final destination, say at WLT's warehouse, the bales of dry tobacco are opened, and little by little, leaves are separated from the bale, moistened, graded, sorted, and repackaged for retail sale. Then it sits on a shelf, until you purchase it.

Once tobacco has color-cured, there is no problem with it freezing, thawing, freezing, or with the humidity swinging from too low to too high, so long as the 3 day average remains below about 75% RH. When tobacco is out of case...

Curing, Fermentation, Aging, Kilning? Basic Definitions

Curing Tobacco When you begin with leaf from the field (primed or stalk-cut), and then allow it to convert from a living leaf to a dead leaf (of yellow or brown), you have cured the leaf. Often in this forum, we refer to this as "color-curing". There are a number of methods for color-curing...

fairtradetobacco.com

...it will crumble to dust when handled. You just have to either wait for the humidity to naturally rise, or artificially increase the humidity, to bring it into low case for handling.

"Jarring" tobacco is for tiny quantities of shred. With whole leaf that I am preparing to store, I bring it into low case if needed, bag it, then place the bag into a large cardboard box for physical protection. Then I forget about it. Since my house is not air-conditioned, the bagged tobacco experiences the daily ups and downs of humidity and temperature. It tends to remain rather dry during the winter, and in low case during the summer.

You may find it helpful to scan through the topics in our Index of Key Forum Threads.

Bob

 

[slouch]

Thanks for responding. So, you think that the WLT gets the dark air cured leaves in large "bales" that have already aged a year or more. Do you think that the leaves are aged in those bales? Can you describe or link how the bales are put together or look like? I don't understand what "jar your tobacco in low case" means. Can you explain? I will look up the kiln idea, but it's probably not practical for me. Thanks again for responding to my question.
Frank.

Tobacco bales are generally just large stacks think of them as a bigger version of stack curing under a towel the leaves cure and ferment under the slight pressure of the stack. Low case just means slightly wet not crunchy or bone dry, just enough moisture to make the leaf workable.

 

[deluxestogie]

Tobacco bales are generally just large stacks think of them as a bigger version of stack curing under a towel the leaves cure and ferment under the slight pressure of the stack.

That is incorrect. Tobacco bales are formed in layers that are firmly compressed.

Bob

 

[FmGrowit]

To reduce shipping costs, we buy a lot of DAC at the same time and warehouse it for years. The current inventory is from the crop year 2020 and we'll probably have the same stock for a couple of more years. The Light Fire is from 2018, and unless people discover how good it is, we'll likely have it for at least five more years (I bought a shitton of it).

 

[slouch]

That is incorrect. Tobacco bales are formed in layers that are firmly compressed.

Bob

I retract my statement then, I was thinking of a video I watched where they where shuffling the bales and thought that’s how they all did it.

 

[deluxestogie]

Tobacco bales are usually compressed with a hydraulic jack. The fermentation that does occur within a bale is mostly from the intrinsic oxidase enzymes of the leaf lamina. Those chemical reactions generate a tiny bit of heat. With sufficient thermal insulation, the temperature rises enough to provide a significant reaction rate. So stacks of baled tobacco are more likely to see that than a lonely bale standing alone.

This thermal insulation effect is what is at play with pilon (pile) fermentation of cigar leaf. The effect is not from pressure or weight, but just the effective thermal insulation near the center of the pilon (provided by all the surrounding leaf). The reason that the pilon is taken down and rebuilt several times is so that leaf nearer the exterior of the pilon can be rotated into the better insulated center of the pilon, and leaf in the center moved toward the exterior.

In Constantinides' book (1912) on Turkish tobacco, he noted that Turkish tobacco mellowed while sitting in bales within the warehouses of Turkey. He also mentioned that if the ambient temperature rose too high, and the bales were stacked too closely, the tobacco would end up nearly black.

I find it interesting that some of the choices of tobacco transport (i.e., supply chain choices) during the 17th and 18th centuries, such as packing into massive hogsheads, stored within the sweltering holds of sailing ships crossing the Atlantic during the summer months, accidentally led to the creation of the first batches of tobacco now known as Cavendish tobacco. And a "Cavendish cut" is what you get when you pry apart thin slabs of that cooked, pressed tobacco, and slice it.

During the early to mid 19th century in the US, tobacco manufacturers in the east needed to supply tobacco to small, widely scattered general stores in remote areas. The answer was to press it into inch-thick slabs (maybe 30"x30"), then cut it into long, 3" wide "plugs". These were wrapped in paper, and shipped to the stores, along with a plug cutter. Customers in the general stores could request that the store either sell a chunk (say, an inch of a plug), or could ask for it to be sliced into thin flakes. So we now have plug, flake, and ready-rubbed flake. Supply chain decisions created many of today's tobacco traditions.

Bob

 

[slouch]

Tobacco bales are usually compressed with a hydraulic jack. The fermentation that does occur within a bale is mostly from the intrinsic oxidase enzymes of the leaf lamina. Those chemical reactions generate a tiny bit of heat. With sufficient thermal insulation, the temperature rises enough to provide a significant reaction rate. So stacks of baled tobacco are more likely to see that than a lonely bale standing alone.

This thermal insulation effect is what is at play with pilon (pile) fermentation of cigar leaf. The effect is not from pressure or weight, but just the effective thermal insulation near the center of the pilon (provided by all the surrounding leaf). The reason that the pilon is taken down and rebuilt several times is so that leaf nearer the exterior of the pilon can be rotated into the better insulated center of the pilon, and leaf in the center moved toward the exterior.

In Constantinides' book (1912) on Turkish tobacco, he noted that Turkish tobacco mellowed while sitting in bales within the warehouses of Turkey. He also mentioned that if the ambient temperature rose too high, and the bales were stacked too closely, the tobacco would end up nearly black.

I find it interesting that some of the choices of tobacco transport (i.e., supply chain choices) during the 17th and 18th centuries, such as packing into massive hogsheads, stored within the sweltering holds of sailing ships crossing the Atlantic during the summer months, accidentally led to the creation of the first batches of tobacco now known as Cavendish tobacco. And a "Cavendish cut" is what you get when you pry apart thin slabs of that cooked, pressed tobacco, and slice it.

During the early to mid 19th century in the US, tobacco manufacturers in the east needed to supply tobacco to small, widely scattered general stores in remote areas. The answer was to press it into inch-thick slabs (maybe 30"x30"), then cut it into long, 3" wide "plugs". These were wrapped in paper, and shipped to the stores, along with a plug cutter. Customers in the general stores could request that the store either sell a chunk (say, an inch of a plug), or could ask for it to be sliced into thin flakes. So we now have plug, flake, and ready-rubbed flake. Supply chain decisions created many of today's tobacco traditions.

Bob

That’s what I was referring to the pilon not the bales my bad

 

[nunapitchuk]

You are misconstruing supply chain necessities for a strategy. To get the fully color-cured, loose leaf from a tobacco farm to a market requires baling it to the dimensions and weight expected by that particular market. Shipping, auctioning, shipping again, warehousing, sorting, portioning, repackaging...all of this requires months or more of aging that just happens to happen.

At their final destination, say at WLT's warehouse, the bales of dry tobacco are opened, and little by little, leaves are separated from the bale, moistened, graded, sorted, and repackaged for retail sale. Then it sits on a shelf, until you purchase it.

Once tobacco has color-cured, there is no problem with it freezing, thawing, freezing, or with the humidity swinging from too low to too high, so long as the 3 day average remains below about 75% RH. When tobacco is out of case...

Curing, Fermentation, Aging, Kilning? Basic Definitions

Curing Tobacco When you begin with leaf from the field (primed or stalk-cut), and then allow it to convert from a living leaf to a dead leaf (of yellow or brown), you have cured the leaf. Often in this forum, we refer to this as "color-curing". There are a number of methods for color-curing...

fairtradetobacco.com

...it will crumble to dust when handled. You just have to either wait for the humidity to naturally rise, or artificially increase the humidity, to bring it into low case for handling.

"Jarring" tobacco is for tiny quantities of shred. With whole leaf that I am preparing to store, I bring it into low case if needed, bag it, then place the bag into a large cardboard box for physical protection. Then I forget about it. Since my house is not air-conditioned, the bagged tobacco experiences the daily ups and downs of humidity and temperature. It tends to remain rather dry during the winter, and in low case during the summer.

You may find it helpful to scan through the topics in our Index of Key Forum Threads.

Bob

So the leaves get aged in the bales, right? You said that after removal from the bale the leaves are moistened if needed. Do you know how this is done?
Thanks for the links. I'll study them shortly. When you say "bring it into low case" can you explain what that means? I am assuming that is also about adding moisture? When you say "bag it" what kind of bag are you talking about? Plastic bag? Paper? Burlap?
Thank you very much for taking the time to help me with this.
Frank.

 

[nunapitchuk]

Tobacco bales are generally just large stacks think of them as a bigger version of stack curing under a towel the leaves cure and ferment under the slight pressure of the stack. Low case just means slightly wet not crunchy or bone dry, just enough moisture to make the leaf workable.

OK, that's kind of what I was thinking that "low case" meant, but now I know.

 

[nunapitchuk]

That is incorrect. Tobacco bales are formed in layers that are firmly compressed.

Bob

I understand. Compressed bales for shipping and storage, but I'm guessing that compression is not necessary for smaller amounts based on your other comments.
Frank.

 

[nunapitchuk]

To reduce shipping costs, we buy a lot of DAC at the same time and warehouse it for years. The current inventory is from the crop year 2020 and we'll probably have the same stock for a couple of more years. The Light Fire is from 2018, and unless people discover how good it is, we'll likely have it for at least five more years (I bought a shitton of it).

Thanks so much for the reply. So not just a year, but several years it ages. Was Bob correct in his comments that you remove it from the bale and then moisten it before vacuum sealing the 1# packages? What do you do to moisten it? Once vacuum sealed is it stored that way for more years?
Frank.

 

[nunapitchuk]

Tobacco bales are usually compressed with a hydraulic jack. The fermentation that does occur within a bale is mostly from the intrinsic oxidase enzymes of the leaf lamina. Those chemical reactions generate a tiny bit of heat. With sufficient thermal insulation, the temperature rises enough to provide a significant reaction rate. So stacks of baled tobacco are more likely to see that than a lonely bale standing alone.

This thermal insulation effect is what is at play with pilon (pile) fermentation of cigar leaf. The effect is not from pressure or weight, but just the effective thermal insulation near the center of the pilon (provided by all the surrounding leaf). The reason that the pilon is taken down and rebuilt several times is so that leaf nearer the exterior of the pilon can be rotated into the better insulated center of the pilon, and leaf in the center moved toward the exterior.

In Constantinides' book (1912) on Turkish tobacco, he noted that Turkish tobacco mellowed while sitting in bales within the warehouses of Turkey. He also mentioned that if the ambient temperature rose too high, and the bales were stacked too closely, the tobacco would end up nearly black.

I find it interesting that some of the choices of tobacco transport (i.e., supply chain choices) during the 17th and 18th centuries, such as packing into massive hogsheads, stored within the sweltering holds of sailing ships crossing the Atlantic during the summer months, accidentally led to the creation of the first batches of tobacco now known as Cavendish tobacco. And a "Cavendish cut" is what you get when you pry apart thin slabs of that cooked, pressed tobacco, and slice it.

During the early to mid 19th century in the US, tobacco manufacturers in the east needed to supply tobacco to small, widely scattered general stores in remote areas. The answer was to press it into inch-thick slabs (maybe 30"x30"), then cut it into long, 3" wide "plugs". These were wrapped in paper, and shipped to the stores, along with a plug cutter. Customers in the general stores could request that the store either sell a chunk (say, an inch of a plug), or could ask for it to be sliced into thin flakes. So we now have plug, flake, and ready-rubbed flake. Supply chain decisions created many of today's tobacco traditions.

Bob

That is interesting. I'm absorbing a lot of information from this discussion. Thank you.

 

[Knucklehead]

So the leaves get aged in the bales, right? You said that after removal from the bale the leaves are moistened if needed. Do you know how this is done?
Thanks for the links. I'll study them shortly. When you say "bring it into low case" can you explain what that means? I am assuming that is also about adding moisture? When you say "bag it" what kind of bag are you talking about? Plastic bag? Paper? Burlap?
Thank you very much for taking the time to help me with this.
Frank.

Storing shredded tobacco

Hi ! What is the best way to store shredded tobacco ? Is mason jars an option ?

fairtradetobacco.com

Is there any way to mellow out shredded tobacco ?

Muggs, Is you burley from the 2018 season? Has it been kilned? If the answers are yes and no, respectively, then you're just smoking the stuff way too soon. Bob Yes,the burley turn dark drown.smells wonderful.im smoking this straight, An it make me cough, an has an bitter after taste. I...

fairtradetobacco.com

Curing, Fermentation, Aging, Kilning? Basic Definitions

Curing Tobacco When you begin with leaf from the field (primed or stalk-cut), and then allow it to convert from a living leaf to a dead leaf (of yellow or brown), you have cured the leaf. Often in this forum, we refer to this as "color-curing". There are a number of methods for color-curing...

fairtradetobacco.com

Tobacco needs two things to naturally age. Time and moisture. If the leaf becomes crispy, crunchy dry the aging stops. Spritz the leaf in a poly nylon bag with a little bit of water from a spray bottle and the aging resumes. If the moisture is too high, the leaf can mold. Just enough moisture to keep the leaf flexible without shattering is plenty.

You can build a small kiln quite easily.