How to Get Cigarettes Right?

[iamjonjones]

*small update*

Received a new shipment of tobacco. I've tried adding more burley to the blend (on a small scale) since from what i've read it should improve the smoke, the throat feel and the nicotine content.

I've added uncased burley to the already cased blend and it seems to have improved the drags, the burn consistency somewhat and the flavor according to some but not to others. And nicotine hit also isnt improved all that much.

I've also tried completely drying out the tobacco in the hopes that that might improve the burn but it hasn't fixed it either.

Results are still not exactly where i'd like them, i will post again when i've tried more things.

 

[iamjonjones]

Like you my first foray into making your own cigarettes was with an order from Tabakblatter but I ordered 3 separate types and I found them to almost in high case when delivered. Fortunately I still had almost a years worth of Tobacco left from last years duty free so I just left my whole leaves alone. A couple of months ago I started shredding my Tabakblatter leaves by hand and although time consuming I think I made a nice fine shred. I then tried very small samples of about 10 grams in different ratios until I found what suited me. I then made 50g mixes and pressed each batch into a block. I can honestly say that it's as good a smoke as the shop bought, not the same of course but still good in it's own right.

I was just re-reading this thread in search of something and after reading this again i wonder. What does pressing it into a block do? Is that for cigarettes or for another form of smoking?

 

[iamjonjones]

Hello, i've recently received a new shipment from Tabakblatter de. They only offer 3 types of leaves and i've been told by "deluxestogie" that atleast one of the names they're advertised with doesn't exist.

Now i'm wondering is there a way to figure out what strain of tobacco it is by looking at it or other characteristics?

And if not, how big of a difference is there between different variants of the same type of leaf (i.e. different orientals or burley or something)?

I'll attach a photo in case somebody can tell me more about what i've received

 

[deluxestogie]

I assume these are the varietal labels you ordered:

• Virginia Gold Lemon
• Oriental Gold
• Burley gold

In your image, the top leaf is clearly a flue-cured Virginia. The center leaf or bottom leaf could be a burley, though the bottom one, if indeed a burley, would be better described as burley red tips. Given their equal sizes, none of them appear to be any Oriental familiar to me.

Bob

 

[joesci]

I also ordered from these chaps - all seems very weak with no appreciable throat hit no matter the blend.

I had assumed, just like yours that the top was Virginia, middle oriental and bottom burley.

The leaves themselves are all fine as far as I can tell so I’m guessing it’s an issue with my blending or casing (or lackthereof)

 

[iamjonjones]

I also ordered from these chaps - all seems very weak with no appreciable throat hit no matter the blend.

I had assumed, just like yours that the top was Virginia, middle oriental and bottom burley.

The leaves themselves are all fine as far as I can tell so I’m guessing it’s an issue with my blending or casing (or lackthereof)

yeah i'm not sure what ended up being the issue, but tabakblatter was the first one i bought from (i saw that theyre supposedly part of ITC which is a big tobacco company thats why i tried them) the leaves i got were in very high case, its now several months later and only now are they properly dried (mind you they've been in a very warm dry room and even in full sunlight on hot summer days). i wasn't aware of case back then so i did try to smoke it, it was also very weak but whether this had to do with what case it was in or with the leaves themselves i don't know. i had only issues with them i ordered the leaves and got no actualy delivery confirmation until DHL in my country told me i wasnt home for delivery, i tried all their contact methods calling, emailing, whatsapp and to this day they havent answered any of them. this freaked me out so i went over to eurotabak, not to say i havent had issues with their deliveries, but they atleast answer promptly and try to fix any issues i had

 

[burge]

Just found this and in reading the obvious question is how are you rolling tobacco? What are you using to cut it? Are you packing them too tight? How tobacco is cut stuffed etc affects the burn of the tobacco.

 

[whotan]

I've already ordered from there too. Because it's in my country. I think their burley tobacco is very strong! However, I don't think you can smoke their tobacco without processing it! It's raw tobacco! It hasn't been fermented or anything! I fermented the tobacco for at least a week and then sprinkled some honey water on it! But you have to be careful that there isn't too much sugar. Otherwise the smoke will be very weak in your throat! Did you smoke the tobacco as it came? Without fermenting it or toasting it?

 

[burge]

I've already ordered from there too. Because it's in my country. I think their burley tobacco is very strong! However, I don't think you can smoke their tobacco without processing it! It's raw tobacco! It hasn't been fermented or anything! I fermented the tobacco for at least a week and then sprinkled some honey water on it! But you have to be careful that there isn't too much sugar. Otherwise the smoke will be very weak in your throat! Did you smoke the tobacco as it came? Without fermenting it or toasting it?

I order from WLT and Big Bonner. It's all good. All the leaf is cured. Same with the stuff you have been buying and you should not use honey water and that could be the burn issue. Leaf is leaf. The way to age it is to leave it in a dark place. Moisten and let it dry and remoistening it and put it under some pressure. Like just putting a brick on top of a pile of tobacco. Sweating tobacco or drastic temperature changes. The first year the lemon was a little harsh I went up to Banff and left the tobacco tub in the car going fishing. The tub was hot rolled some up and it was excellent. A gew years ago I got some and it tasted real bitter. I emailed Don on it and said let me try something first. I put all the tobacco on the radiator and then shred it and stuffed it in my tub it was super sweet and great. Has to be the same in where you buy it from. Also the moisture when you shred it. Too moist the stands are thicker if that is the case stuff less and get a proper burn. What machine are you stuffing your tobacco in? If it is one of those worm drive machines they aren't much good and the cherry's fall off.

 

[iamjonjones]

Just found this and in reading the obvious question is how are you rolling tobacco? What are you using to cut it? Are you packing them too tight? How tobacco is cut stuffed etc affects the burn of the tobacco.

I'm cutting them using a tc-100 tobacco cutter, one of these

and then i case them with with this magic aroma

then i either inject them with a handinjector (which i have definitely have enough experience in to know when theyre packed too tight or too light) or i inject them with a powermatic 5 (which i'll probably make another post about since it's giving me quite a bit of trouble)

I order from WLT and Big Bonner. It's all good. All the leaf is cured. Same with the stuff you have been buying and you should not use honey water and that could be the burn issue. Leaf is leaf. The way to age it is to leave it in a dark place. Moisten and let it dry and remoistening it and put it under some pressure. Like just putting a brick on top of a pile of tobacco. Sweating tobacco or drastic temperature changes. The first year the lemon was a little harsh I went up to Banff and left the tobacco tub in the car going fishing. The tub was hot rolled some up and it was excellent. A gew years ago I got some and it tasted real bitter. I emailed Don on it and said let me try something first. I put all the tobacco on the radiator and then shred it and stuffed it in my tub it was super sweet and great. Has to be the same in where you buy it from. Also the moisture when you shred it. Too moist the stands are thicker if that is the case stuff less and get a proper burn. What machine are you stuffing your tobacco in? If it is one of those worm drive machines they aren't much good and the cherry's fall off.

i haven't done any fermenting i dont think, i watched videos from i think LO? that showed shredding the leaf and immediately injecting it, so aside from casing (which i tried because the tobacco seemed so weak) i havent done much with it. i did infact get one of those "worm drive" injectors and i can confirm i had alot of issues with cherry falling off

 

[burge]

Maybe not use a casing. Just try the plain tobacco and make sure the shred is no more than a half inch long.

 

[iamjonjones]

Maybe not use a casing. Just try the plain tobacco and make sure the shred is no more than a half inch long.

currently, i have no real issues with the tobacco from eurotabak (aside from getting moldy burley). i've tried it uncased and its beter than anything i tried with the tobacco from tabakblatter. i just never tried fermenting it and getting it in the right case quite tiresome, as is cutting it and cleaning the cutter. i'm a bit of a primadonna with this sortof stuff and already looking at a 900$ guillotine, might never buy it might just randomly do it ( that's adhd for ya) i also bought the powermatic 5 (a $300 injector for those who dont know) for this exact reason, but it's honestly a bit of a disappointing purchase, holding me back on buying more expensive stuff

 

[oldfellainspain]

I think sometimes, it's just down to luck. I've had one 2 kilo, and two 3 kilo orders from Tabakblatter, and all three have arrived in medium to high case. I de-stem all leaves and dry them to crispy dry, which takes two to three days per batch. Some of the burley had a little white mould on the stems only.
I bring the half leaves back into very low case and put them through my €27.00 shredder. Too higher case = clogged shredder. Out of case = dust instead of shred. I then bag the shred, out of case (well below 60% RH). Now, when I want to mix up a batch for a weeks smoking, I take some of the bagged tobacco and bring it into middle case. Then a handful at a time I compress it (just in my hand). This allows me to cut it with a curved blade knife, into shorter shreds of about half an inch. I then let it dry back into very low case (almost out of case) and bag it again. Now I've got my supply for 6-7 days. It is a little more difficult to roll by hand than shop bought rolling tobacco because it is drier, but it's an incredibly nice smoke. 60% burley, 30% virginia and 10% oriental.
I've been smoking this mix for the last three years. For me, the most important thing is how dry the tobacco is when you smoke it. If it's too damp, I find it doesn't burn well, I get small clumps that fall out of the paper as they burn and the taste is very raw. In the fifty four years I've been smoking, the last three years have been a real eye opener. I hope I never have to go back to shop bought tobacco.
I have tried two other suppliers of WLT, one German and one Spanish. Not happy with either.

 

[deluxestogie]

It's worth keeping in mind that "RH" is relative to ambient temperature. A bag of leaf in low-to-medium, that is sealed in a warehouse at one temperature, may arrive at its destination in a higher case, if the shipping or destination temperature is at a lower temperature (e.g. in air-conditioning). I've also seen the opposite effect—air-conditioned warehouse packing arrives at my 80°F home in summer.

Bob

 

[oldfellainspain]

Good point. I don't mind how it arrives really. Saying that, I have had a delivery from a Spanish company that arrived so dry it was all near enough dust.

 

[burge]

For rolling injectors there are two I would use one is the cheap hand injector by rayo. the others are from the older Premier supermatic hand crank injector and the Excel, a miniature hand crank. The Powermatic's I have tried, and they compress the tobacco too much. The supermatic doesn't do that. Mine however are older and from the Clinton Tube Company.

 

[iamjonjones]

I think sometimes, it's just down to luck. I've had one 2 kilo, and two 3 kilo orders from Tabakblatter, and all three have arrived in medium to high case. I de-stem all leaves and dry them to crispy dry, which takes two to three days per batch. Some of the burley had a little white mould on the stems only.
I bring the half leaves back into very low case and put them through my €27.00 shredder. Too higher case = clogged shredder. Out of case = dust instead of shred. I then bag the shred, out of case (well below 60% RH). Now, when I want to mix up a batch for a weeks smoking, I take some of the bagged tobacco and bring it into middle case. Then a handful at a time I compress it (just in my hand). This allows me to cut it with a curved blade knife, into shorter shreds of about half an inch. I then let it dry back into very low case (almost out of case) and bag it again. Now I've got my supply for 6-7 days. It is a little more difficult to roll by hand than shop bought rolling tobacco because it is drier, but it's an incredibly nice smoke. 60% burley, 30% virginia and 10% oriental.
I've been smoking this mix for the last three years. For me, the most important thing is how dry the tobacco is when you smoke it. If it's too damp, I find it doesn't burn well, I get small clumps that fall out of the paper as they burn and the taste is very raw. In the fifty four years I've been smoking, the last three years have been a real eye opener. I hope I never have to go back to shop bought tobacco.
I have tried two other suppliers of WLT, one German and one Spanish. Not happy with either.

i personally seem to miss the skill too bring the leaves into the right case, the issue i've had is when i tried bringing it back into case is that it would either be way too wet, or it would dry back to being out of case in a matter of minutes. so i'd end up with either a clogged cutter or dust like you say. Oddly enough i've found my already out of case tobacco suddenly in perfect case to shred it after having it out in the open with a rack of wet laundry drying, but this has been purely by accident i might play experiment with this to see if this ends up working consistently for me.
I find it interesting to hear that your tabakblatter tobacco dried so quickly, mine acted like it had been treated with glycol or something because even after months in an open bag in the full sun and a warm room it still wouldn't dry.

For rolling injectors there are two I would use one is the cheap hand injector by rayo. the others are from the older Premier supermatic hand crank injector and the Excel, a miniature hand crank. The Powermatic's I have tried, and they compress the tobacco too much. The supermatic doesn't do that. Mine however are older and from the Clinton Tube Company.

i have this issue with powermatic as well, the pack the cigarettes too tight, i've seen the powermatic 3 has printable plastic bits to lower the amount of tobacco and hence the density, but the powermatic 5 to me has been quite an investment and i void my warranty if i screw it open :/

 

[burge]

I get that on the powermatic. Try another one just to check it out.

 

[oldfellainspain]

I find it interesting to hear that your tabakblatter tobacco dried so quickly, mine acted like it had been treated with glycol or something because even after months in an open bag in the full sun and a warm room it still wouldn't dry.

Once de-stemmed, I spread the half leaves around the room. I can't move for so much tobacco, but they dry out very quick. Possibly no stem to draw moisture from helps. Also maybe you're getting condensation inside the bag which is slowing the drying down. Just guessing by the way.
Keep experimenting..... You will get it right in the end, and it will be worth it.

 

[burge]

There and there's something going on with the shred etc. Tobacco will dry in Alberta quite quickly the humidity is low when in BC it gets super moist as the humidity is a lot higher. So, the moisture will affect the burn of the tobacco. The thickness of the cut length how it is shredded in case and how it's stuffed in the tube. Superfine tobacco will not burn as nicely as the .7mm cut and the same to the 1 and 1.6 mm cut. You can have the exact same leaf and depending on those factors it will burn differently. Even shredding with different moisture content will affect the leaf and how it comes out.