bonehead
Well-Known Member
all i know is what i read and tried in a book by jim johnson about growing and processing tobacco at home. if you make the solution and leave it on a warm counter it does bubble and ferment.
How to make strong tobacco more mild and smooth
- Thread starter Gdaddy
- Start date
This sounds like a readily available alternative to making your own citric acid solution.
http://www.wholeleaftobacco.com/Cigarette-Tobacco-Casing-for-Flue-Cured-Virginia-Types-Casing1.htm
CT Tobaccoman
Well-Known Member
Thanks again for all this really useful yet simple procedures, and for the video links. Using PN on binder makes sense--binder probably is most important to even burn, and few things annoy me more than cigars that burn down one side
CT
CT
CT Tobaccoman
Well-Known Member
Yes, I use the WLT casing for flue cured tobacco now, and I like it fine. It's just that it comes in such little bottles. Might be easier and cheaper to invent my own and make up a quart at a time. Thinking also of simple corn syrup with vanilla, diluted to sprayability. There's a thread about casings, I believe. Everybody seems to have their own mixture. I'll have to experiment. But this Citric acid that just cuts harshness may be all i need.
CT
I have fooled around with making my own casings... was too much work, not enough reward, and problems like coming out sticky. I have recently tried each of WLT's casings and could not believe how good they were... highly recommended!
Will this stuff take a Ligero down to the mildness of a Seco or Viso without changing the flavor profile too much?
Gdaddy
Well-Known Member
It keeps the same flavor profile it just tones down the harshness. Acts as a smoothing agent.
leverhead
Well-Known Member
I have some of the last priming flue-cured Southern Beauty from 2012 that's already shredded, but is difficult to use because it's harsh and has way too much nicotine. For grins and giggles, I dried down a sample and added 2% (citric acid) of the dried weight (of tobacco) with a solution of citric acid that would bring it back to 20% moisture content. After 24 hours I dried and made a cigarette from some, the harshness is gone. The nicotine is still pretty stout, but the hit is different. The flavor is about the same as the same variety grown in 2013. I'll try it again after 48 hours to see if it changes any more.
ArizonaDave
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, I just saw this and haven't read the rest of the post yet, but have you tried toasting it?
Gdaddy, could you add original text or a link if possible ? The link above provides only a little image which is impossible to read.
MarcL
Well-Known Member
Saturday October 31 1908 UNITED STATES TOBACCO JOURNAL
The Relation of Nicotine To the Quality of HIGH GRADE HAVANA CIGARS EXERT ONLY A BLAND ON THE MUCUOUS MEMBRANE OF THE THROAT AND NOSE While the Smoke of Domestic Filler Has a Marked Pungency Is Irritating and Biting to the Nose This Pungency Can Be Extracted However With Petroleum Ether and Spraying to Tobacco When In Sweat With Citric Acid Such the Scientific View of the Experts of the Agricultural Department
WASHINGTON DC Oct 28 1908 Some interesting conclusions as the relation of nicotine to the of tobacco have been reached by the tobacco experts of the Bureau of Plant Industry in the course of recent experiments At the outset it is stated that the amount of nicotine in tobacco varies being one per cent in some cases and five per cent in others Definite conclusions as to the nicotine content of tobaccos grown in different parts of the world cannot be made as it would involve dealing with a mixed group of factors but it is stated as a general proposition that very rich heavy soils and large quantities of nitrogeneous fertilizers tend to produce a coarse rank growth and large percentage of nicotine.
The bureau is conducting with a view of securing strains of important types of tobacco by high and low nicotine This work includes not only a of the nicotine content of large of selections from different types to determine the relative influence the production of nicotine of the factors which go to make up environment in which the plant The tobacco plant contains the quantity of nicotine at maturity which it begins to lose part of the whether it remains in the field is harvested The sharp pungent so noticeable in the curing shed and room is due the officials say to the nicotine which escaping from the tobacco as the time the weed is hung in the shed it continues to lose throughout the curing and aging processes Experiments shown that well fermented samples cigar tobacco continue to lose nicotine after being kept in tightly stoppered bottles for more than two years
While recognizing that nicotine is the active principle of tobacco its production in large quantities is not desirable It is pointed out that the finest grades of tobacco contain only moderate and even relatively small amounts of nicetine Nor is the aroma governed by the quantity of nicotine in the leaf The suggestion that the aroma is due to its decomposition products formed during fermentation is not regarded seriously but admitting this it is stated that high nicotine is not desirable for in aroma quality rather than quantity is dealt with.
Discussing the strength of tobacco a bulletin of the Plant Industry says that a high grade Havana proves extremely satisfying to smoker and produces a marked physiological reaction while the smoke exerts a remarkably bland effect on mucous membrane of the throat and nose On the other hand some domestic cigar filler tobaccos are not only.
less satisfying in their narcotic but the smoke has a marked and is irritating and biting to the and throat These tobaccos are always classed as strong as with the Havana whereas they contain less nicotine than the The same differences may be noted different samples of domestic types series of tests by the bureau has to establish any direct relation the nicotine content and the of the domestic filler tobaccos as and classified by some habitual Havana cigar tobaccos are because of their fullness and the former being the effect it gives and the latter the dom from pungent biting American fillers on the other hand characterized by roughness and In growing cigar fillers in country from Cuban seed the has been of excellent quality save the smoke possesses a peculiar or harshness To remedy resweating followed by long aging and blending has been to and although the sharp biting has been ascribed to the presence an ethereal oil such a substance never been isolated from cured in the knowledge of the Bureau In experiments with just such tobacco bureau found that this quality was lost after the tobacco had extracted with petroleum ether evaporating off the petroleum from the extract the remainder warming gave off fumes which pungent and irritable to the nose throat and these fumes were to consist essentially of nicotine The nicotine was found to be isolated from the extract by the solution in petroleum ether water containing sulphuric acid aqueous layer containing the nicotine well washed with petroleum ether after adding an excess of alkali to the nicotine from the sulphuric acid again extracted with petroleum ether very low boiling point or with ethyl ether After evaporation of ether from this extract the nicotine left as a residue in almost pure This residue retains all the of the original extract while latter after removal of the nicotine longer possesses this property A sample of nicotine was purified by bureau experts in the laboratory converting it into citrate in solution and repeatedly extracting solution with ether The nicotine then liberated with an excess of alkali extracted from the aqueous layer ether and the ether solution After evaporating the ether the nicetine was twice distilled in a current hydroden and the odor of the was identical with that obtained by extracting the tobacco with ether Although the peculiar or pungency of the smoke from is removed by extracting the with petroleum ether and this is due to nicotine all the nicotine not removed in this treatment assertion is made that nicotine is present in tobacco in at least two forms one of which is soluble in ether while the other is practically insoluble Wrapper tobacco loses ten to fifteen per cent of its nicotine fermenting and filler as much as third of the total nicotine content.
The conclusion is reached numerous tests that the shown by the smoke of any should be removed either by the tobacco with petroleum ether or adding a sufficient quantity of malic citric acid to combine with all the nicotine present Samples of domestic of excellent quality were tested smoke was so sharp and pungent it was necessary to blend with mild type before using it for cigars The filler was classed as a strong very heavy type of a total nicotine content of 2.20 per cent In many domestic fillers the per cent is sometimes as much as five The amount of this nicetine soluble in petroleum ether was determined and to a portion of the tobacco about two per cent of citric acid was added in aqueous solution by spraying after which the sample was cased down for two days to allow the acid to diffuse through the leaf Better results could be obtained by adding the citric acid solution before the fermentation process is completed thereby affording a better opportunity for the even diffusion of the acid through the leaf But even under these unfavorable conditions the soluble portion of the nicotine was reduced below that of a mild sample of Santa Clara Cuban filler type which showed only a slight sharpness in the smoke Samples of the tobacco to which the citric acid was added were made into cigars and tested by a number of persons the opinion being that the sharpness or pungency of the smoke had been almost entirely removed thereby The bureau regards other similar acids such as malic and tartaric acid as efficient in overcoming this property of the smoke Oxalic acid however does not give satisfactory results Citric acid is regarded as a normal and valuable constituent of tobacco and its addition in moderate amounts could not injure the quality of tobacco and its addition during the fermentation process is believed to be beneficial to those types of cigar filler which contain excessive quantities of nicotine not already in combination with citric or malic acids This could probably be best applied by spraying the tobacco at the time of turning the bulks with a solution of such concentration as to add from one to two per cent of the acid.
Several experiments to determine effects produced by citric acid on nicotine content of tobacco smoke been conducted by the bureau of tobacco were sprayed with citric and then made into cigars Similar tobacco without the acid was also up into cigars A like number of was smoked in a suitable apparatus smoke being drawn through a series flasks containing sulphuric acid to ab sorb the nicotine The apparatus for smoking the cigars which has previously been described in this correspondence was regulated so that the could be drawn through the either in an uninterrupted current intermittently and the rate of regulated that about thirty would be required for the complete combustion of a cigar In one series experiments approximately two of each cigar were smoked while in second series only one half of each was consumed From these tests it was observed that when two thirds of a cigar are smoked about thirty per cent of the nicotine of the smoked portion passes into the smoke while from ten to twenty per cent collects in the unsmoked portion and the remainder is either destroyed or escapes into the air The increase in the amount of nicotine which collects in the unsmoked portion of the cigar when smoked by a constant current of air instead of intermittent puffs is due to the circumstance that in the first case practically all the nicotine is drawn into or through the unburned portion of the cigar while in the latter case a large portion of the nicotine escapes into the air during the intervals between puffs The relative amount of nicotine to be found in the smoke depends on the length of the unsmoked portion and on the rate at which the smoke is drawn through the cigar The chief point of interest from these experiments in the eyes of the ofilcials of the bureau is the effect of citric acid on the nicotine content of the smoke To them it is apparent that in every case the quantity of nicotine in the smoke is reduced while that which c01lects in the end of the cigar is correspondingly increased This difference nevertheless is too small to account for the marked effect produced on the quality of the smoke The only possible explanation of this pronounced effect on the sharpness of the smoke is that in the presence of the citric acid the nicotine enters the smoke in the form of a salt rather than in the free state and thereby loses its pungency while still exerting the usual physiological effect.
The Relation of Nicotine To the Quality of HIGH GRADE HAVANA CIGARS EXERT ONLY A BLAND ON THE MUCUOUS MEMBRANE OF THE THROAT AND NOSE While the Smoke of Domestic Filler Has a Marked Pungency Is Irritating and Biting to the Nose This Pungency Can Be Extracted However With Petroleum Ether and Spraying to Tobacco When In Sweat With Citric Acid Such the Scientific View of the Experts of the Agricultural Department
WASHINGTON DC Oct 28 1908 Some interesting conclusions as the relation of nicotine to the of tobacco have been reached by the tobacco experts of the Bureau of Plant Industry in the course of recent experiments At the outset it is stated that the amount of nicotine in tobacco varies being one per cent in some cases and five per cent in others Definite conclusions as to the nicotine content of tobaccos grown in different parts of the world cannot be made as it would involve dealing with a mixed group of factors but it is stated as a general proposition that very rich heavy soils and large quantities of nitrogeneous fertilizers tend to produce a coarse rank growth and large percentage of nicotine.
The bureau is conducting with a view of securing strains of important types of tobacco by high and low nicotine This work includes not only a of the nicotine content of large of selections from different types to determine the relative influence the production of nicotine of the factors which go to make up environment in which the plant The tobacco plant contains the quantity of nicotine at maturity which it begins to lose part of the whether it remains in the field is harvested The sharp pungent so noticeable in the curing shed and room is due the officials say to the nicotine which escaping from the tobacco as the time the weed is hung in the shed it continues to lose throughout the curing and aging processes Experiments shown that well fermented samples cigar tobacco continue to lose nicotine after being kept in tightly stoppered bottles for more than two years
While recognizing that nicotine is the active principle of tobacco its production in large quantities is not desirable It is pointed out that the finest grades of tobacco contain only moderate and even relatively small amounts of nicetine Nor is the aroma governed by the quantity of nicotine in the leaf The suggestion that the aroma is due to its decomposition products formed during fermentation is not regarded seriously but admitting this it is stated that high nicotine is not desirable for in aroma quality rather than quantity is dealt with.
Discussing the strength of tobacco a bulletin of the Plant Industry says that a high grade Havana proves extremely satisfying to smoker and produces a marked physiological reaction while the smoke exerts a remarkably bland effect on mucous membrane of the throat and nose On the other hand some domestic cigar filler tobaccos are not only.
less satisfying in their narcotic but the smoke has a marked and is irritating and biting to the and throat These tobaccos are always classed as strong as with the Havana whereas they contain less nicotine than the The same differences may be noted different samples of domestic types series of tests by the bureau has to establish any direct relation the nicotine content and the of the domestic filler tobaccos as and classified by some habitual Havana cigar tobaccos are because of their fullness and the former being the effect it gives and the latter the dom from pungent biting American fillers on the other hand characterized by roughness and In growing cigar fillers in country from Cuban seed the has been of excellent quality save the smoke possesses a peculiar or harshness To remedy resweating followed by long aging and blending has been to and although the sharp biting has been ascribed to the presence an ethereal oil such a substance never been isolated from cured in the knowledge of the Bureau In experiments with just such tobacco bureau found that this quality was lost after the tobacco had extracted with petroleum ether evaporating off the petroleum from the extract the remainder warming gave off fumes which pungent and irritable to the nose throat and these fumes were to consist essentially of nicotine The nicotine was found to be isolated from the extract by the solution in petroleum ether water containing sulphuric acid aqueous layer containing the nicotine well washed with petroleum ether after adding an excess of alkali to the nicotine from the sulphuric acid again extracted with petroleum ether very low boiling point or with ethyl ether After evaporation of ether from this extract the nicotine left as a residue in almost pure This residue retains all the of the original extract while latter after removal of the nicotine longer possesses this property A sample of nicotine was purified by bureau experts in the laboratory converting it into citrate in solution and repeatedly extracting solution with ether The nicotine then liberated with an excess of alkali extracted from the aqueous layer ether and the ether solution After evaporating the ether the nicetine was twice distilled in a current hydroden and the odor of the was identical with that obtained by extracting the tobacco with ether Although the peculiar or pungency of the smoke from is removed by extracting the with petroleum ether and this is due to nicotine all the nicotine not removed in this treatment assertion is made that nicotine is present in tobacco in at least two forms one of which is soluble in ether while the other is practically insoluble Wrapper tobacco loses ten to fifteen per cent of its nicotine fermenting and filler as much as third of the total nicotine content.
The conclusion is reached numerous tests that the shown by the smoke of any should be removed either by the tobacco with petroleum ether or adding a sufficient quantity of malic citric acid to combine with all the nicotine present Samples of domestic of excellent quality were tested smoke was so sharp and pungent it was necessary to blend with mild type before using it for cigars The filler was classed as a strong very heavy type of a total nicotine content of 2.20 per cent In many domestic fillers the per cent is sometimes as much as five The amount of this nicetine soluble in petroleum ether was determined and to a portion of the tobacco about two per cent of citric acid was added in aqueous solution by spraying after which the sample was cased down for two days to allow the acid to diffuse through the leaf Better results could be obtained by adding the citric acid solution before the fermentation process is completed thereby affording a better opportunity for the even diffusion of the acid through the leaf But even under these unfavorable conditions the soluble portion of the nicotine was reduced below that of a mild sample of Santa Clara Cuban filler type which showed only a slight sharpness in the smoke Samples of the tobacco to which the citric acid was added were made into cigars and tested by a number of persons the opinion being that the sharpness or pungency of the smoke had been almost entirely removed thereby The bureau regards other similar acids such as malic and tartaric acid as efficient in overcoming this property of the smoke Oxalic acid however does not give satisfactory results Citric acid is regarded as a normal and valuable constituent of tobacco and its addition in moderate amounts could not injure the quality of tobacco and its addition during the fermentation process is believed to be beneficial to those types of cigar filler which contain excessive quantities of nicotine not already in combination with citric or malic acids This could probably be best applied by spraying the tobacco at the time of turning the bulks with a solution of such concentration as to add from one to two per cent of the acid.
Several experiments to determine effects produced by citric acid on nicotine content of tobacco smoke been conducted by the bureau of tobacco were sprayed with citric and then made into cigars Similar tobacco without the acid was also up into cigars A like number of was smoked in a suitable apparatus smoke being drawn through a series flasks containing sulphuric acid to ab sorb the nicotine The apparatus for smoking the cigars which has previously been described in this correspondence was regulated so that the could be drawn through the either in an uninterrupted current intermittently and the rate of regulated that about thirty would be required for the complete combustion of a cigar In one series experiments approximately two of each cigar were smoked while in second series only one half of each was consumed From these tests it was observed that when two thirds of a cigar are smoked about thirty per cent of the nicotine of the smoked portion passes into the smoke while from ten to twenty per cent collects in the unsmoked portion and the remainder is either destroyed or escapes into the air The increase in the amount of nicotine which collects in the unsmoked portion of the cigar when smoked by a constant current of air instead of intermittent puffs is due to the circumstance that in the first case practically all the nicotine is drawn into or through the unburned portion of the cigar while in the latter case a large portion of the nicotine escapes into the air during the intervals between puffs The relative amount of nicotine to be found in the smoke depends on the length of the unsmoked portion and on the rate at which the smoke is drawn through the cigar The chief point of interest from these experiments in the eyes of the ofilcials of the bureau is the effect of citric acid on the nicotine content of the smoke To them it is apparent that in every case the quantity of nicotine in the smoke is reduced while that which c01lects in the end of the cigar is correspondingly increased This difference nevertheless is too small to account for the marked effect produced on the quality of the smoke The only possible explanation of this pronounced effect on the sharpness of the smoke is that in the presence of the citric acid the nicotine enters the smoke in the form of a salt rather than in the free state and thereby loses its pungency while still exerting the usual physiological effect.
MarcL
Well-Known Member
This was behind the that..
RAVAGES OF THE CIGARETTE BEETLE Bisulphide of Carbon a Good Remedy In Small Factories In Large Factories Spraying With Kerosine.
WASHINGTON DC Oct 29 1908 A special inquiry into the ravages of the cigarette beetle so well known to tobacconists and manufacttirers by reason of its operation on the manufactured product will be made by two experts of the Bureau of Entomology of the Department of Agriculture during the winter with a view of evolving some means for the total extermination of the insect larvae and all This subject has received attention before by the Bureau of Entomology but not of a searching or far reaching character and the proposed inquiry is taken at the request of a large number of manufacturers throughout the country andwith a view of arriving at some method by which the beetle may be extermi nated and the tobacco trade may save the great amount of money which is now lost by the ravages of this insect Tests and experiments will be made in an effort to discover some method by which the leaf may be treated so as to destroy the larvae in all its stages The work will probably be conducted by AC Morgan and CR Jones entomologists of the Bureau who are now completing investigations begun by them this season with respect to the insects affecting the tobacco crop in Tennessee and Kentucky As soon as their report on this work is completed they will be assigned to the new work with instructions to go into every detail and make an exhaustive research A report from them is not expected until next Spring The cigarette beetle feeds on all kinds of dried tobacco and snuff It lives in the tobacco during all the stages of its existence It damages cigarettes and cigars principally by boring out of them making round holes in the wrappers so that they will not draw Leaf tobacco is injured for wrapping purposes by being punctured with holes made both by the larvae and the beetles and fillers and line out are Injured by the reduction of their substance by the actual amount consumed by the larvae The adulteration of fine cut by the bodies of the insects and by their excrement is also a damage The beetle thrives in warm climates or in artificially heated places and hence its appearance in factories warehouses to_ bacco barns and retail establishments In small establishments bisulphide of carbon has been found to be a good remedy for the beetle In large establishments such as factories or warehouses steaming or spraying with kerosene or benzine have been found by experiments to be of benefit.
RAVAGES OF THE CIGARETTE BEETLE Bisulphide of Carbon a Good Remedy In Small Factories In Large Factories Spraying With Kerosine.
WASHINGTON DC Oct 29 1908 A special inquiry into the ravages of the cigarette beetle so well known to tobacconists and manufacttirers by reason of its operation on the manufactured product will be made by two experts of the Bureau of Entomology of the Department of Agriculture during the winter with a view of evolving some means for the total extermination of the insect larvae and all This subject has received attention before by the Bureau of Entomology but not of a searching or far reaching character and the proposed inquiry is taken at the request of a large number of manufacturers throughout the country andwith a view of arriving at some method by which the beetle may be extermi nated and the tobacco trade may save the great amount of money which is now lost by the ravages of this insect Tests and experiments will be made in an effort to discover some method by which the leaf may be treated so as to destroy the larvae in all its stages The work will probably be conducted by AC Morgan and CR Jones entomologists of the Bureau who are now completing investigations begun by them this season with respect to the insects affecting the tobacco crop in Tennessee and Kentucky As soon as their report on this work is completed they will be assigned to the new work with instructions to go into every detail and make an exhaustive research A report from them is not expected until next Spring The cigarette beetle feeds on all kinds of dried tobacco and snuff It lives in the tobacco during all the stages of its existence It damages cigarettes and cigars principally by boring out of them making round holes in the wrappers so that they will not draw Leaf tobacco is injured for wrapping purposes by being punctured with holes made both by the larvae and the beetles and fillers and line out are Injured by the reduction of their substance by the actual amount consumed by the larvae The adulteration of fine cut by the bodies of the insects and by their excrement is also a damage The beetle thrives in warm climates or in artificially heated places and hence its appearance in factories warehouses to_ bacco barns and retail establishments In small establishments bisulphide of carbon has been found to be a good remedy for the beetle In large establishments such as factories or warehouses steaming or spraying with kerosene or benzine have been found by experiments to be of benefit.
leverhead
Well-Known Member
No, I haven't. I dried the sample down in the oven at 160-170 F, for about 30 minutes. I don't think that would qualify as toasting. The last thing that I toasted was Burley, when I first started out with whole leaf. For me, it was more trouble than it was worth.
This is such a curious thread. Citric acid is the "offending" ingredient in the commonly available fruit pectins used as cigar glue.
Bob
Bob
ArizonaDave
Well-Known Member
I like the citric acid idea, now that I've read the post.
Another thing that really tones down the harshness is Cognac. I know it does wonders on Cigar tobacco, I used to get this and infuse all my cigars with (Just a small container and sponge). I started seeing a big difference after a couple months.
MarcL
Well-Known Member
I remember being told that a peppery smoke was due to a citric additive.
ArizonaDave
Well-Known Member
Hmm, I like some pepper, but is not necessary for me. I'm going for the Cognac.
Now we're talking... kerosene soaked cigars!!!!!!
MarcL
Well-Known Member
No burn issues there.
leverhead
Well-Known Member
It is a strange thread. Even at 2%, I didn't taste anything that made me think of citric acid. Maybe in the glue near the head of a cigar it might leave a taste, but I didn't have any tobacco in my mouth.
