I do not currently have any leaf for sale but I thought I’d give some background on how I garden first to kind of set the stage because it’s much different than the modern systems of growing and the quality is much greater. I garden in way called permaculture which as a permaculture gardener your end goal is seed that does not require watering and self seeds throughout your property so your job turns into transplanting and thinning and weeding for yield not fertilizer and chemicals and excessive watering practices. The first few generations of seed yield low small plants and as they learn the land gain resistance to predators and acclimate to the environmental conditions ten fold. Once these seeds are made the tobacco is thicker and more durable and much more flavorful this is due to not washing the minerals back down that the trees and other plants work so hard to bring to the surface. Our fruit trees yield huge fruit that’s so much sweeter and just way more filling than farmed fruits these trees haven’t been watered in over 30 years. Our tobacco will be installed as seedlings the first round of permaculture training we will be lining the entire property every so many feet placing a plant in ground with compost and were weaving these in between our other crops which seems to be helping as a big trap. We can still harvest the leaf and clip suckers along the bottom of the plant but we’re going to let these ones fully seed and only harvest half the seed from each plant allowing them to winter over and if any pop up on there own the following year we tag those ones to not pluck or water much. We’re going to make the first permaculture strain a flue cure type and store it in hand pressed/cranked bales. The leaf that we put into these bales is only the best leaf and the rest that has holes and such we will keep for personal smoke. We’re going to place one leaf in at a time for these bale molds and face them in the same direction to allow for easy deconstruction of the bale and each bale will be 100-150 pounds maximum wrapped in twine rope and then burlap sewn around it to then be tagged with strain date ect and stored in dehumidifier chamber for some time to discourage mold growth. How would I go about selling this leaf? I would only be producing a maximum of one or two bales all less than 200 pounds. I wouldn’t want to sell it if I could only get 5$ a pound or even 10$ a pound from such labor and sorting through to produce bales with the best leaf only.when we get more land ready for our permaculture rehabilitation we will build burley barn and have a go at making burley a weed in the garden after plucking the first ones which could take a couple years or longer to for sure have plucked them “all” but who’s to say one seed didn’t get pooped out half a mile to the east in the neighbors field that’s never mowed well hybridization could certainly happen on accident which could be disruptive for marketing but could produce something neat as well. Anyways if anyone has any information on how I could market my leaf please feel free to chime in : )
How to sell my home grown
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ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
You're making an assumption that quality is an ethereal, idealistic measurement. "Quality" is in fact adherence to a written standard.
While you may know what went into the tobacco, that is irrelevant to the market's quality index which is a finite scale.
Given there's a story behind the tobacco,
the way I see it is that the only way to get more than $5/lb is to manufacture it into an end product. And that product better be damn good. Either damn good, or decent, but marketed specifically to people who are as zealous about permaculture as yourself.
While you may know what went into the tobacco, that is irrelevant to the market's quality index which is a finite scale.
Given there's a story behind the tobacco,
the way I see it is that the only way to get more than $5/lb is to manufacture it into an end product. And that product better be damn good. Either damn good, or decent, but marketed specifically to people who are as zealous about permaculture as yourself.
The end product is clean grown on land that hasn’t been contaminated and will be easy to get certified organic which I was hoping that alone would be able to ramp the price up but I’m not looking to take in contract from corporations to then be anxious to fulfill it I just want to produce on my own time and put my heart and soul and hard labor into it and sell what I can. If there isn’t a market for better quality cleaner tobacco then might as well keep it I guess but im not gonna stop researching just because of a standard mindset in the bulk of the gardening and consuming world that continues to deplete soil levels as well as deforest and use up water at unreal rates creating more deserts and less forests. Soil science is my life and clean food and living in respect for the earth has only continued to yield more food higher yields and more wildlife on our property. Water retention is greater and we don’t have flood issues because the land sucks it right up so we shouldn’t be taxed for any bulk agricultural damage we’re actually just allowing earth to do it’s thing. But regardless of farming methods and the industry standards for quality I still haven’t heard any advise on how to sell the stuff.. so any advise would be great lol
Do I do that on this website? Or just anywhere? I guess I’m nervous because of rumors about legality’s of tobacco cultivation and sales from people that didn’t know what they were talking about really and so I just don’t want to break any rules legally
ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
Back to your misuse of the word "quality", seeing as you seem to have ignored my point.
Quality begins with a set of standards, and is proven by adherence to those standards. Quality is not an amorphous "better".
So what set of standards are we going by? Obviously not the regular old "corporate" tobacco market. Not even the organic tobacco market. What you are talking about is meeting the standards of a very select segment of the population, and you will need to be highly specific in marketing to them. I would guess that the permaculture community is most open to word of mouth type marketing (if you can call it marketing).
The reason I say the standards are those of a very select population is because organic tobacco already exists, and doesn't cost much more than regular tobacco, and most people who value it are satisfied with the fact that it meets their standards. It shouldn't surprise you to hear me say that while "organic people" are your allies, ultimately, only permaculture people truly care about permaculture enough to invest their resources beyond the cost of organic.
Quality begins with a set of standards, and is proven by adherence to those standards. Quality is not an amorphous "better".
So what set of standards are we going by? Obviously not the regular old "corporate" tobacco market. Not even the organic tobacco market. What you are talking about is meeting the standards of a very select segment of the population, and you will need to be highly specific in marketing to them. I would guess that the permaculture community is most open to word of mouth type marketing (if you can call it marketing).
The reason I say the standards are those of a very select population is because organic tobacco already exists, and doesn't cost much more than regular tobacco, and most people who value it are satisfied with the fact that it meets their standards. It shouldn't surprise you to hear me say that while "organic people" are your allies, ultimately, only permaculture people truly care about permaculture enough to invest their resources beyond the cost of organic.
ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
Or you could just settle for selling it to the market as organic tobacco and simply conduct yourself as a permaculture grower for the existential and very personal benefits of living your life the way you feel is right. Put in honest work, make a decent organic tobacco, and sell it for what the market will pay.
Must we do everything because we will benefit materially from it?
Must we do everything because we will benefit materially from it?
Mathaious12
Well-Known Member
From what I read, you should figure out what the tobacco is worth to you at a per pound basis. Start there to see if it's worth going farther in this endeavor; because the reality is consumers will likely not spend more that $25ish per lbs for filler and $65ish per pound for wrapper even if it's what the industry considers quality, and organic and better for the earth (those are high prices for known quality too). Now thats if your selling direct to consumers, if you want to sell to a place like WTL, who are the only ones willing to purchase whole bales, conservatively assume they will only pay half of that. Are you willing to sell bales at ether of those price?
You wrote about the growing methods and how that makes it quality. Does this mean you have a background in tobacco farm and know what quality tobacco is?
You wrote about the growing methods and how that makes it quality. Does this mean you have a background in tobacco farm and know what quality tobacco is?
I feel your misunderstanding me entirely I’m not able to communicate it right I guess. I’m not saying quality is what I say it is not am I saying I’m trying to market permaculture I’m trying to market organic tobacco on a small scale to whoever values it most for what it is and I don’t think I could afford to get involved with the big players in the big industry of it all I’m only one man. And we need to survive when our income starts to revolve around our land entirely then I don’t see how we couldn’t calculate things to be as fare priced as possible but also being able to (survive). Hundreds of small farmers have gone out of business because of the way things have become and that goes for tobacco and produce alike. We’re not trying to depend on city living anymore we’re going the other way
ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
I assume you are already working on sustainable self-sufficiency primarily by producing essentials such as food, water, fiber, and heat? After that, tobacco, being a luxury, is a really cool thing to grow and provide to the world at whatever price.
I think you'll really enjoy this if it is an extra, rather than something you are depending on for your survival. Cash crops build civilizations, but they are also a great source of starvation.
I think you'll really enjoy this if it is an extra, rather than something you are depending on for your survival. Cash crops build civilizations, but they are also a great source of starvation.
ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
I don't mean to be argumentative. I am being cautionary because there is a lot of risk involved in your plans and I would hate to see you "lose the farm".
ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
@Mathaious12 makes a great point. There is a more clear route, and potential for whole leaf cigar tobacco, than for pipe/cigarette.
I appreciate all your advice I just want to make a secondary income from the garden as well as be a part of cleaner tobacco and I think I’m seeing what your saying now I also don’t mean to be arguing either and I think cigar tobacco is most definitely the way now thinking about it I honestly only want to produce a minimal amount of flue and sun cured leaf because my family prefers there burley and I got others into chew and cigars are the other big one it’s not so me in the family that fancy’s the flue cured and sun cured leaf really other than maybe one other. I certainly don’t won’t to be greedy either and wouldn’t want to take advantage of anyone. I’ve been raised by farmers children living in the city so my grand parents and great grandparents were the actual farmers and I’ve been slowly but surely cloning my way out of city living over the past 10 years and it’s hard but it’s worth the freedom. The clarity out here is priceless and I wish everyone could live this way. I have plenty of seed for cigars and a space to ferment them i would need to continue playing with it before being able to make market quality tobacco I guess but I absolutely love these plants and i don’t want to be that idiot that sells his lot of blueberries for 1500 when the next door neighbor with the same strain same size lot same quality everything like that but got 2500 for it and isn’t worried about rent next month clothes for the kids and such you feel me?
Our farm focuses on regeneration of soil microbes and not taking any action against pests other than companion plants to attract benificial insects that eat plant pests. Which takes time so we are still struggling income wise to make this place a self sustaining ecosystem but it’s part of my soil science adventure and my future journey to get government funding to help restore polluted ecosystems that are missing plants and animals fungi bacteria to continue self sustaining. Fungi are the only organisms that can actually break down hydrocarbons and render them safe. I’m a mycologists,soil scientist/citizen scientist trying to do my part as well as educatemyself and stay afloat and I’m still here so that’s atleast something. Tobacco will only be one of many things growing in the same place and there I’m sure will be plenty of leaf loss because I’m stubborn and Won’t spray or dust
ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
I understand and respect your philosophy. You may be the only person attempting to grow tobacco via permaculture. As a pioneer, difficulties are to be expected. You will learn from this, and get better and perhaps succeed. I'm sure we will all learn something from it if you document the process.
I've never grown tobacco, so I can't help you there.
I did grow up working on farms, dairy and custom tillage, and tobacco is just another crop. Owning a dairy farm is like owning a restaurant: you must milk the cows twice or three times a day, every day, 365 days a year. There are no vacations or days off or gap years. Tillage isn't much different.
Start small. Don't take out any loans. Enjoy what you're doing and try to turn a profit on your own back.
If you do come out on the plus side of the ledger, then you can decide if you are able, and want to, scale up.
I did grow up working on farms, dairy and custom tillage, and tobacco is just another crop. Owning a dairy farm is like owning a restaurant: you must milk the cows twice or three times a day, every day, 365 days a year. There are no vacations or days off or gap years. Tillage isn't much different.
Start small. Don't take out any loans. Enjoy what you're doing and try to turn a profit on your own back.
If you do come out on the plus side of the ledger, then you can decide if you are able, and want to, scale up.
Oldfella
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE
Hopefully you will make it work. The experience you gain,and post, from it should help others who have an idea
But are too nervous to try it.
Good luck. I'm watching with much interest.
Oldfella
Hopefully you will make it work. The experience you gain,and post, from it should help others who have an idea
But are too nervous to try it.
Good luck. I'm watching with much interest.
Oldfella
Permaculture is a complete philosophy, more than just an agricultural technique, it touches every aspect of your life.
I love the ideas behind permaculture and I would really love to see more and more people living this way (myself included).
We have a vegetable garden and we are trying to do it the most organic way since the beginning.
For two years now, we are orienting more on permaculture, by reusing as much of what we find on our land (wood, herbs...), using mulch, adding biodiversity, etc.
It takes time for the entire ecosystem to set (we have a lot of vegetables eaten by slugs for example), but we already see that the soil is becoming better and a lot more insects are living here (some species we had not seen for long).
Last year I built a raised bed (Hugelkultur) for some of my tobacco (on a place of my land where it did not grew well previous years), and used mulch on different beds, the results was very good, so I added a lot of wood and organic matter to my soil for this year (for the vegetables and the tobacco).
I agree with ChinaVoodoo, if you are in this philosophy, you shouldn't think about getting the most money from your tobacco.
Maybe you should first start by growing enough tobacco for you and your family.
Then, if you are happy with the results and not too tired by all the work you can always try to grow more and then supply your friends or more.
Each year, I grow about 200-300 plants, and it takes a lot of time ! I am not sure I could grow more, even if I wanted to sell it.
If you are interested in growing and selling tobacco, start by checking with your specific state laws.
Good luck with your plants
I love the ideas behind permaculture and I would really love to see more and more people living this way (myself included).
We have a vegetable garden and we are trying to do it the most organic way since the beginning.
For two years now, we are orienting more on permaculture, by reusing as much of what we find on our land (wood, herbs...), using mulch, adding biodiversity, etc.
It takes time for the entire ecosystem to set (we have a lot of vegetables eaten by slugs for example), but we already see that the soil is becoming better and a lot more insects are living here (some species we had not seen for long).
Last year I built a raised bed (Hugelkultur) for some of my tobacco (on a place of my land where it did not grew well previous years), and used mulch on different beds, the results was very good, so I added a lot of wood and organic matter to my soil for this year (for the vegetables and the tobacco).
I agree with ChinaVoodoo, if you are in this philosophy, you shouldn't think about getting the most money from your tobacco.
Maybe you should first start by growing enough tobacco for you and your family.
Then, if you are happy with the results and not too tired by all the work you can always try to grow more and then supply your friends or more.
Each year, I grow about 200-300 plants, and it takes a lot of time ! I am not sure I could grow more, even if I wanted to sell it.
If you are interested in growing and selling tobacco, start by checking with your specific state laws.
Good luck with your plants
It might be worth checking with the federal bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms as well as Oregon's somewhat over regulatory state agencies. Personal use is one thing, selling for profit is another. I'm sure there are probably plenty of regulations and hoops to jump through with an "evil" crop like tobacco. I would definetly learn the laws and follow any regulations very closely, the BATF is one of those agencies that is known for showing up inside people's homes unannounced at 2AM
It wouldn't surprise me if there are some people that would be willing to pay a premium for organic permaculture tobacco, especially out there on the west coast. Some people really go for stuff like that. I think a lot of it would come down to marketing and finding the right buyer that would be willing to sell and/or purchase your product.
It wouldn't surprise me if there are some people that would be willing to pay a premium for organic permaculture tobacco, especially out there on the west coast. Some people really go for stuff like that. I think a lot of it would come down to marketing and finding the right buyer that would be willing to sell and/or purchase your product.
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