ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
Burge, it is very different and off topic. With all due respect to your patient and gentle aging methods, in this case it is like comparing leaving cookie dough in the car on a hot day vs putting it in the oven.
import some leaf into New Zealand
- Thread starter ladaok
- Start date
- Status
I got some that went through heat treatment and love it. Has a nice chocolatey smell in the bag and a fairly strong taste with a hint of cigar. Adds a bit of a kick to cigarettes when mixed with virginia flue cured
Welcome to the forum, mikeab. Feel free to introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum.
Bob
Bob
stic
Well-Known Member
I ordered a lb of Maryland 609...never again...
Mine went through heat treatment; not sure what it tasted like before, but it was unsmokable after...
Virginia Red Leaf, on the other hand...best tobacco i've ever had...do yourself a favour and import that...
Mine went through heat treatment; not sure what it tasted like before, but it was unsmokable after...
Virginia Red Leaf, on the other hand...best tobacco i've ever had...do yourself a favour and import that...
What I'm sensing from the contrasting comments on, government mandated "heat treatment" is that the process is performed in such an unpredictable manner that some shipments are mildly heated, while others are significantly damaged. My guess is that it's performed within a huge, poorly adapted container, with inadequate circulation and unreliable temperature controls. If the folks responsible were actually to care about the outcome, a remedy would be relatively easy and inexpensive to implement.
Bob
Bob
stic
Well-Known Member
If being the operative word here...
They don't care that much, and, i'm guessing with NZ's official stance on smoking, care even less when they see it's tobacco...
The irony of all this is that, this 'leaf' has ALREADY been heat treated during the process of curing, where any infestation has already been destroyed....
freedompiper
Active Member
hi there, wondering if anything has changed re: importing to New Zealand since October 1st law changes.
Orson Carte
Well-Known Member
The change of Duty is due to happen on December 1.
From that point, GST tax (at 15%) will be charged on all imported parcels of wholeleaf tobacco. I believe that Don is set-up to charge GST on all sales to NZ customers, which will mean that the tax will be paid when the order is made and the parcel, when arriving in NZ, should fly through the system, unimpeded.
For anyone buying from overseas retailers of tobacco (and any other products, for that matter) that do not charge GST at the point of sale the holdups and extra costs are likely to be horrendous. (The procedure with unpaid GST is that the item is withheld until a demand letter is sent demanding the tax, plus a hefty administration fee is paid.
Anyone who has ever imported wholeleaf will already know the frustrations of getting through process - where the parcel arrives from the US in about a week and then spends two months in the system bouncing between Customs and the Quarantine treatment. Any unpaid GST would only make this even worse.
My feeling is that, in due course, people buying from overseas retailers will simply avoid them if they don't charge GST on the items they sell, because of the added costs and the frustrating wait for any purchased item.
Most of this is true except for the tobacco part. Tobacco and tobacco products MUST go through customs for clearance. As the law reads now, there is no way for me to collect the tax on tobacco for NZ residents.
Don
Owner Whole Leaf Tobacco LLC
Don
Owner Whole Leaf Tobacco LLC
Orson Carte
Well-Known Member
It is my understanding that as from Dec 1 the 15% GST (sales tax) is payable on ALL goods entering New Zealand.
I'm not saying that tobacco won't have to pass through Customs but parcels that have had the tax paid at point of sale will have a very smooth ride through to the buyer.
'As the law reads now' there is no provision or requirement for anyone to collect any tax at all. However, after Dec 1 it's a completely new game.
Overseas sellers sending goods into NZ are being asked to register and charge GST on all goods they sell to NZ buyers. There is information out there (previously mentioned) describing how this will be done. https://www.classic.ird.govt.nz/campaigns/2018/gst-policy-update.html
So, it is not a matter of saying there is no way to collect it - they are ASKING you to collect it (after Dec 1)
The NZ Govt is not going to personally 'ask' overseas sellers to register as collectors of GST but those that do not will have their goods tied up (in the NZ Mail Centre) until all the paperwork is done and the fees paid, by the buyer. So, while those items being sent by overseas sellers who are GST registered will fly through and it will be a nightmare for buyers receiving goods from those sellers that are not. As I've already said, the hold-ups are bad enough now. I was hoping things might improve, not get worse.
Of course, all this extra cost and confusion will not initially affect the overseas seller (it falls in the lap of the buyer) but I think it's pretty obvious that any NZ buyer from an unregistered seller will quickly be compelled into looking for alternatives of less resistance.
I'm not saying that tobacco won't have to pass through Customs but parcels that have had the tax paid at point of sale will have a very smooth ride through to the buyer.
'As the law reads now' there is no provision or requirement for anyone to collect any tax at all. However, after Dec 1 it's a completely new game.
Overseas sellers sending goods into NZ are being asked to register and charge GST on all goods they sell to NZ buyers. There is information out there (previously mentioned) describing how this will be done. https://www.classic.ird.govt.nz/campaigns/2018/gst-policy-update.html
So, it is not a matter of saying there is no way to collect it - they are ASKING you to collect it (after Dec 1)
The NZ Govt is not going to personally 'ask' overseas sellers to register as collectors of GST but those that do not will have their goods tied up (in the NZ Mail Centre) until all the paperwork is done and the fees paid, by the buyer. So, while those items being sent by overseas sellers who are GST registered will fly through and it will be a nightmare for buyers receiving goods from those sellers that are not. As I've already said, the hold-ups are bad enough now. I was hoping things might improve, not get worse.
Of course, all this extra cost and confusion will not initially affect the overseas seller (it falls in the lap of the buyer) but I think it's pretty obvious that any NZ buyer from an unregistered seller will quickly be compelled into looking for alternatives of less resistance.
I will not be collecting any tax, duty, fee, etc. on behalf of customers ordering from New Zealand. Tobacco is very complicated. Tobacco is the gold Columbus discovered in the Americas. More money has been generated from tobacco taxes than the value of all the gold mined in the history of man. Governments are very protective of their "gold".
It is business as usual.
It is business as usual.
Are there exceptions?
These changes do not apply to:
• supplies of fine metal
• alcohol and tobacco products – GST, excise taxes and customs duties are applied at the border regardless of value.
These changes do not apply to:
• supplies of fine metal
• alcohol and tobacco products – GST, excise taxes and customs duties are applied at the border regardless of value.
freedompiper
Active Member
So there may be 15% GST added but no excise duty. Though they do say that items under $1000 will not be charged GST. Excise duty on 5lbs of manufactured tobacco would be around $2700 NZD. But whole leaf is unmanufactured right? So you might get charged $50 or so GST plus $50 inspection fee plus $70 quarantine/HT but still no excise duty as it was before oct 1st? I might ring them and ask, and report back.
freedompiper
Active Member
Update: 24.01 unmanufactured whole tobacco leaf is not listed in the duty and excise tables however, in the latest working tariff document it is listed and still tax free!
stic
Well-Known Member
As I see it, currently, we buy the tobacco, have it shipped to us, it is intercepted at customs and we are charged GST, it then goes to heat treatment and we are charged for this too.
Anywhere between 2 weeks and 2 months later, the tobacco is released to the courier and it turns up approximately a week later.
After December 1, if the point of sale collects a 15% tax on the purchase (including shipping cost), and places an acceptable note on the package/documentation to state this has been done, the tobacco will go straight through customs and off to heat treatment.
After December 1, if the point of sale does NOT collect 15% tax on the purchase (including shipping cost), Customs will hold up the tobacco for an indeterminate time, issue a letter (which they will charge the customer an exorbitant amount for) stating GST is to be paid, and then, once GST is paid, it will find it's way to heat treatment after some unspecified amount of time...
Yes it's rude for NZ customs to expect overseas retailers to collect their taxes for them, but, after December 1st, this will be just another cost of doing business with NZ customers...
I for one hope this happens and I can continue to import tobacco from here (customs nightmare free)...
Anywhere between 2 weeks and 2 months later, the tobacco is released to the courier and it turns up approximately a week later.
After December 1, if the point of sale collects a 15% tax on the purchase (including shipping cost), and places an acceptable note on the package/documentation to state this has been done, the tobacco will go straight through customs and off to heat treatment.
After December 1, if the point of sale does NOT collect 15% tax on the purchase (including shipping cost), Customs will hold up the tobacco for an indeterminate time, issue a letter (which they will charge the customer an exorbitant amount for) stating GST is to be paid, and then, once GST is paid, it will find it's way to heat treatment after some unspecified amount of time...
Yes it's rude for NZ customs to expect overseas retailers to collect their taxes for them, but, after December 1st, this will be just another cost of doing business with NZ customers...
I for one hope this happens and I can continue to import tobacco from here (customs nightmare free)...
freedompiper
Active Member
Thanks stic, do you get charged the $56 biosecurity levy and inspection fee as well?
stic
Well-Known Member
Only once.
I pay immediately upon getting the letter and email that it's paid too, and this seems to eliminate this levy, so just GST and heat treatment...
I pay immediately upon getting the letter and email that it's paid too, and this seems to eliminate this levy, so just GST and heat treatment...
There are 193 countries in the world. Each one has its own import and taxation laws (sometimes quite ambiguous, and occasionally self-contradictory), and they are all constantly changing those laws at irregular intervals.
The multi-billion dollar mega-companies in the US went nuts when they were forced to accommodate the separate sales tax laws of 50 US states.
Bob
The multi-billion dollar mega-companies in the US went nuts when they were forced to accommodate the separate sales tax laws of 50 US states.
Bob
ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
I payed tax on my last shipment to Canada. I cried a little inside, but it only took the amount of time for me to tap my debit card and sign an electronic signature pad. Considering I saved thousands of dollars, I think it was worth it.
I wrote to the customs agent in NZ who reprimanded me about sending packing slips with the orders to NZ. Unlike invoices, packing slips do not show the shipping charges which is to be included in the calculation for the tax assessed. Needless to say, we send invoice with all order going to NZ now.
Here is what Mr. Sid So Oula said in his reply to my question about collecting the GST.
*emphasis NOT mine
"
Hello Don
· From 01 December 2019, instead of GST being collected on low-value consignments at the border, overseas businesses that sell low-value goods to consumers in New Zealand will collect GST if they are required to be registered.
· They are required to register if their supplies to NZ consumers are likely to exceed NZ$60,000 in a 12-month period.
· An overseas business that is required to register must charge and collect GST on low-value goods they sell to consumers in NZ. They must pay the GST collected to Inland Revenue NZ.
· *However, the changes do not apply to alcohol and tobacco products. GST, excise taxes and Customs duties will be applied at the border regardless of value.
· Imports of unmanufactured tobacco leaf material are subject to normal Customs charges.
For your information
Regards, Sid."
it appears as if I read the new law correctly.
Here is what Mr. Sid So Oula said in his reply to my question about collecting the GST.
*emphasis NOT mine
"
Hello Don
· From 01 December 2019, instead of GST being collected on low-value consignments at the border, overseas businesses that sell low-value goods to consumers in New Zealand will collect GST if they are required to be registered.
· They are required to register if their supplies to NZ consumers are likely to exceed NZ$60,000 in a 12-month period.
· An overseas business that is required to register must charge and collect GST on low-value goods they sell to consumers in NZ. They must pay the GST collected to Inland Revenue NZ.
· *However, the changes do not apply to alcohol and tobacco products. GST, excise taxes and Customs duties will be applied at the border regardless of value.
· Imports of unmanufactured tobacco leaf material are subject to normal Customs charges.
For your information
Regards, Sid."
it appears as if I read the new law correctly.
- Status
