Latakia Ale

[ChinaVoodoo]

So, I've done this, and it isn't theoretical. I recall talking about it a couple years ago in a beer forum and people went ape-shit because "tobacco" is the devil's feces or something.

Anyways, I made a 1 imp. gal batch of Latakia stout. I first did an experiment. Sorry if this rambles. I didn't want to get sick, so i read around and determined that inhaling, one absorbs about a fifth to a tenth of the nicotine that was in the tobacco. Most of it gets burned. So, I figured, if I was to drink two beers, the most important would want to absorb would be the nicotine from one or two bowls of my pipe, so I estimated that 0.7 g of tobacco per bottle would be safe. This would be the equivalent of smoking 3.5 to 7 grams of tobacco. So 0.7g was my max.

The experiment was to try serve different levels of Latakia. 0.2g, 0.4g, and 0.7g. I had an ESB, bitterness around 35IBU, already bottled and i opened them up and put the amounts in and sealed them.

All three were great, and there was a discernible buzz from them.

So I made the stout sweet with a high temperature starch conversion and low attenuating yeast, and low on ibu, thinking it would go well with Latakia and in the secondary, I added 0.7g Latakia per 330mL. The rresulting brew was too sweet and smoky, in my opinion, but lots of people liked it. . If I did it again, I would go heavier on the hops, and drier on the beer, and a bit lighter on the tobacco. . Better yet, I would duplicate the ESB I had done the original experiment with and go 0.4g Latakia per 330mL.

Also, I discovered that after several months, it overcarbonated. I think the tobacco either was fermented, or more likely, the nicotine kick started the yeast. Therefore, I would age it longer in the secondary before bottling.

I believe it is important to add the tobacco to the secondary because flavour would be lost during primary fermentation due to the vigorous bubbling, and because it's a good idea to add a potential contaminant after alcohol has been produced.

 

[bonehead]

i like the sound of beer smokes more than electronic smokes. the only problem i see is that it would get taxed 3 times. processed tobacco tax,alcohol tax and sales tax on all the other tax. you better up the proof if it will be worth marketing.

 

[wrapper]

So, I've done this, and it isn't theoretical. I recall talking about it a couple years ago in a beer forum and people went ape-shit because "tobacco" is the devil's feces or something.

Anyways, I made a 1 imp. gal batch of Latakia stout. I first did an experiment. Sorry if this rambles. I didn't want to get sick, so i read around and determined that inhaling, one absorbs about a fifth to a tenth of the nicotine that was in the tobacco. Most of it gets burned. So, I figured, if I was to drink two beers, the most important would want to absorb would be the nicotine from one or two bowls of my pipe, so I estimated that 0.7 g of tobacco per bottle would be safe. This would be the equivalent of smoking 3.5 to 7 grams of tobacco. So 0.7g was my max.

The experiment was to try serve different levels of Latakia. 0.2g, 0.4g, and 0.7g. I had an ESB, bitterness around 35IBU, already bottled and i opened them up and put the amounts in and sealed them.

All three were great, and there was a discernible buzz from them.

So I made the stout sweet with a high temperature starch conversion and low attenuating yeast, and low on ibu, thinking it would go well with Latakia and in the secondary, I added 0.7g Latakia per 330mL. The rresulting brew was too sweet and smoky, in my opinion, but lots of people liked it. . If I did it again, I would go heavier on the hops, and drier on the beer, and a bit lighter on the tobacco. . Better yet, I would duplicate the ESB I had done the original experiment with and go 0.4g Latakia per 330mL.

Also, I discovered that after several months, it overcarbonated. I think the tobacco either was fermented, or more likely, the nicotine kick started the yeast. Therefore, I would age it longer in the secondary before bottling.

I believe it is important to add the tobacco to the secondary because flavour would be lost during primary fermentation due to the vigorous bubbling, and because it's a good idea to add a potential contaminant after alcohol has been produced.

This is a terrific idea, your Latakia Stout. If it is all the same to you I will give it a try. It might be worth trying some in the boil to see how much flavour vapes off and how much nicotine is extracted. I doubt the nicotine is at all volatile so will not boil away. And then "dry hop" with more in the secondary if needed. Maybe make the stout a little on the dry side.

I take pretty much all of the yeast out of my bottle conditioned ales, especially the ones with a high finishing gravity, by fermenting cap down. Then after it has carbonated and settled clear with the sediment in the cap I freeze the necks and disgorge like champagne = clear beer with less chance of a later fermentation start up.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

This is a terrific idea, your Latakia Stout. If it is all the same to you I will give it a try. It might be worth trying some in the boil to see how much flavour vapes off and how much nicotine is extracted. I doubt the nicotine is at all volatile so will not boil away. And then "dry hop" with more in the secondary if needed. Maybe make the stout a little on the dry side.

I take pretty much all of the yeast out of my bottle conditioned ales, especially the ones with a high finishing gravity, by fermenting cap down. Then after it has carbonated and settled clear with the sediment in the cap I freeze the necks and disgorge like champagne = clear beer with less chance of a later fermentation start up.

Sounds great, let us know how it goes. I've read about the champagne method. I had no idea anyone was actually doing it with beer.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

A local brew pub made Latakia stout recently. The brewmaster added some bourbon vanilla to create balance. His was much better than mine. It also over carbonated, by the way.

 

[wrapper]

A local brew pub made Latakia stout recently. The brewmaster added some bourbon vanilla to create balance. His was much better than mine. It also over carbonated, by the way.

Bourbon vanilla sounds good too.

I had a stout in brandy barrels a while ago (we are in brandy, not whiskey [bourbon] territory here!). That worked well. Over carbonation is very dreary and ruins the pour. Plenty of ales with a high finishing gravity are prone to having yeast kick start again, as not all of those residual sugars will be un-fermentable, and what appears to be finished may still be quietly busy, especially on high alc brews. Commercially they take care of it with a 0.5 micron sterile filtration to remove all traces of yeast, ultra sterile bottling and some even use pot meta to keep it stunned, but would never own up to it! Imagine having to put "contains sulphites" on a craft ale.

Disgorging ales is a fun, messy and time consuming exercise; but well worth the effort to have sediment free home brew. When opening the bottle with the sediment frozen on the cap you need to be a bit careful: that frozen plug of yeast flies a good 15 metres when you open it.... A couple of outfits do it commercially in Belgium, going so far as to use 75cl champagne bottles too, complete with cork and wire cage. That is too much expense and effort for me: I do use a champagne bottle but use a crown cap not only for the conditioning but for closing again after disgorging. Champagne cork and wire cage may be traditional and showy, but the crown works just as well at a fraction of the cost.

Your Latakia Stout will be my next brew, so thanks for the initiative and heads-up!

 

[SmokesAhoy]

Are you talking about drinking it or vaping it? I'd think the pH would be on the acid side from the brew process and then dump into your stomach so nicotine shouldn't be available if drank.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Are you talking about drinking it or vaping it? I'd think the pH would be on the acid side from the brew process and then dump into your stomach so nicotine shouldn't be available if drank.

Stomach acid is far more acidic than tobacco. Besides, no matter how low the pH, because of homeostasis, the pancreas will neutralize the acid the second it hits your duodenum.

Regarding inhalation, the pH affects absorption itself, not the bioavailability of nicotine post absorption. The pH of the blood is strictly regulated between 7.35 and 7.45. You would be in serious lung or kidney failure if it was otherwise; therefore, no matter the pH of the smoke, the second it enters the blood stream, the body adjusts the pH to within these healthy parameters.

Also, anecdotal as it is, I've drank it multiple times, and I am sure there's available nicotine.

 

[Ben Brand]

When I stayed in the UK i drank lots of ale, loved it, here in SA ales are not to common, lagers most of our beers!!!

 

[wrapper]

When I stayed in the UK i drank lots of ale, loved it, here in SA ales are not to common, lagers most of our beers!!!

I have also just returned from two weeks in the UK and their ales are fantastic, very drinkable. I prefer them (on average) to the US versions which, whilst packed with flavour, tend to lack balance and subtlety.

Now here we go on a monster Latakia Stout journey which is hardly easy to make subtle! So I be like: hypocrite...

 

[wrapper]

I have to make smoking arrangements for the Latakia. I am thinking a smoking chamber using slow cold smoke, not over 55c. I have cypress, juniper, oak and chestnut in mind. And in stock. And I think I need to make a venturi smoker delivering through a long tube to keep the temperature down. Will post a pic when it is done.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

ChinaV, Is the idea to just get a Latakia flavor? or Latakia AND nicotine? If just Latakia, you can get Latakia flavoring.

Wrapper, I'd be interested to see the results of your experiment. No one (so far) has been able to make their own Latakia Tobacco successfully.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

ChinaV, Is the idea to just get a Latakia flavor? or Latakia AND nicotine? If just Latakia, you can get Latakia flavoring.

Wrapper, I'd be interested to see the results of your experiment. No one (so far) has been able to make their own Latakia Tobacco successfully.

Why not simply use the real deal? The only reason for apprehension about the amount was that when I first brought it up in the beer forum, people went ape about how dangerous it could be. So I did the rough math and an experiment and it was successful.