Latakia from Samsun

[FALaholic]

Currently going Samsun.
Was thinking of making Latakia from it.
Would like to know about harvesting and curing. I'm thinking harvesting by primming when leaves turn yellow, but then what about fire curing. Would I fire cure while yellow and still in high case, or should I dry them out, recase them, then fire cure them.

 

[istanbulin]

In general, harvesting Oriental leaves when they turn fully (or mainly) yellow (ripe leaf) is not a very good idea. Because this leaves are considered as over matured and they generally give harsher smoke than the leaves primed at the best maturity. But if you want to fire cure them this may be less important because the taste of the fire-curing smoke will probably beat the tobacco taste (or it's harshness). BTW, if you have other varieties with thicker leaf (may be İzmir or others), it's better to use them for making Latakia. Samsuns generally have really thin leaves.

 

[DonH]

Also, the thing with Latakia is not just that it's fire cured, but the flavor comes from the different shrubs and plants they burn to give it the unique taste.

 

[deluxestogie]

I have fire-cured Samsun using hickory wood. I began with color-cured, new leaf. I fired it daily for about a week. After resting for about 6 months, the leaf took on a supple, calf-skin texture, and smoked beautifully. Its color was deep brown.

If you begin with green leaf, then the temp must not go above 104ºF before it fully yellows.

To make anything that resembles Latakia, you'll need to plan on firing it for about 3 months straight. Other posts describe the known woods that are traditionally used. You won't be able to acquire them.

Bob

 

[FALaholic]

Actually hickory was what I was going to use.
So just prim it right at the tips turn yellow?
Then straight to fire curing?
Fire cure it at 104oF for 4 months straight, always heat, always smoke, non stop?

 

[DonH]

You could do that but why use Samsun for fire curing? Samsun has subtle flavors that will get wiped out by the Hickory smoke. And it won't taste anything like Latakia because they are using other woods in Cyprus for Latakia. I would just use some American variety for fire cured.

 

[FALaholic]

Thank you Don. Reason for my asking about using Samsun, is that the seeds that I received from a member informed me that Samsun is used to make Latakia. Yet I did not find any mention to specifically using Samsun, but did see that Turkish is used to make Latakia.

Let me ask the hive.
Samsun: prim it when it is fully yellow, then kiln it for a month? Is this what the hive recommends?

 

[Knucklehead]

In general, harvesting Oriental leaves when they turn fully (or mainly) yellow (ripe leaf) is not a very good idea. Because this leaves are considered as over matured and they generally give harsher smoke than the leaves primed at the best maturity. But if you want to fire cure them this may be less important because the taste of the fire-curing smoke will probably beat the tobacco taste (or it's harshness). BTW, if you have other varieties with thicker leaf (may be İzmir or others), it's better to use them for making Latakia. Samsuns generally have really thin leaves.

This gentleman is from Turkey and a botany professor. You can pretty much rely on what he tells you. I'd follow his advice on the harvesting. As for the kilning, you must color cure before kilning. Don't confuse kilning with flue curing. Flue curing is a curing process beginning with green flue cure varieties, where kilning is basically speed aging already air cured leaf. If you don't kiln it for a month after curing, it can take a year or longer of natural aging to have the nice taste and smell of good tobacco. raw tobacco is harsh and doesn't taste or smell good.

 

[FALaholic]

Thanks Knuckle. So question is, what indicators tell me when the leaves are right for priming? Seems that yellowed leaf is too mature. So would I harvest when the tips are yellow, the leaf is beginning to turn yellow, or while it is still green?

 

[deluxestogie]

I'm thoroughly confused. Are you fire-curing, flue-curing, or air-curing?

Samsun has subtle flavors that will get wiped out by the Hickory smoke.

The Samsun that I fire-cured had lovely, subtle Turkish flavors.

Bob

 

[FALaholic]

I originally thought that I could fire cure Samsun to make Latakia. Seems that members on here are on the fence about making Latakia out of Samsun.
So I figured my next option would be to color cure then kiln it.
I was never planing on flue curing Samsun. I was just under the impression that in order to fire cure Samsun, one would need to harvest green leaves to fire cure.

 

[DonH]

I'm thoroughly confused. Are you fire-curing, flue-curing, or air-curing?


The Samsun that I fire-cured had lovely, subtle Turkish flavors.

Bob

Good to know. All I taste in Fire Cured is the smoke.

 

[Knucklehead]

Thanks Knuckle. So question is, what indicators tell me when the leaves are right for priming? Seems that yellowed leaf is too mature. So would I harvest when the tips are yellow, the leaf is beginning to turn yellow, or while it is still green?

Istanbulin told me it's more to do with the leaf texture. It will turn kind of alligatory and there may or may not be slight traces of yellow. I guess yellow wise, it would be right there at the tipping point. (This is for orientals, you'll want your other cigarette varietes to be more ripe and more yellow)

 

[FALaholic]

Got it. Texture, when like gator skin, prim it.
One thing though, when it is like gator skin, will it snap off, or will it bend on the stalk, thus needing to be cut off rather than broken off.

 

[Knucklehead]

Mine has been snapping off. Easy Peasy. Color curing very well. (I wanted to sun cure my Orientals, but I was missing the main ingredient--sunshine )

 

[AmaxB]

Photos Samsun Leaves
Picked 2 big boxes yesterday left them in the boxes and put them in my garage. They will stay there until I start another run in my chamber.
My intention is to flue cure them I read in another thread if very thick stacking them a few days could maybe help with yellowing.
.

.
Lot going on in this thread about picking, texture, and etc.
Most of the leaves I picked snapped of with a right & left movement while others (top of plant) were not so easy.
These leaves are 5 - 6 weeks after topping

 

[AmaxB]

Need to add leaves thicken and become tougher with age while on the plant..

 

[deluxestogie]

AmaxB,
I'll be interested in whether or not Samsun is a good candidate for flue-curing. I'm not sure if the samsun x petunia hybrid will answer that. I must say that flue-curing various non-flue-cure types has been fun so far. I do wish I had all my Oriental varieties from 2012 available to try.

Since fire-curing does not substantially alter the air-curing schedule, I would guess that just about any variety would be a candidate for fire-cure.

Bob

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Bob, I flue cured some Samsun-Maden and Tekekoy a few weeks ago. I'd send you a sample but I smoked all of the Maden already. I'm the worst person in the world when it comes to describing tastes and flavors in tobaccos so all I can say was... it was good.

 

[AmaxB]

AmaxB,
I'll be interested in whether or not Samsun is a good candidate for flue-curing. I'm not sure if the samsun x petunia hybrid will answer that. I must say that flue-curing various non-flue-cure types has been fun so far. I do wish I had all my Oriental varieties from 2012 available to try.

Since fire-curing does not substantially alter the air-curing schedule, I would guess that just about any variety would be a candidate for fire-cure.

Bob

Gotta Love ya Bob --You tickle me
Maybe no answer for you but we will know how a Petunia works out for me in the chamber. Grin had it listed in Tobacco. I grew it as Tobacco, I'll be damned but will smoke it hell might be Good!
Some people put dandylines in their salad...
Lol guess that's why ya got all those green bars