Little Dutch, Anyone ever grow it?

[Jitterbugdude]

I'm tempted to grow some Little Dutch this year and am curious how it tastes and if it has the aroma in the field that is often talked about in the old literature.

Randy B

 

[deluxestogie]

I have grown Little Dutch. It grows as a short plant (~3 ft.), with closely spaced nodes, and long, narrow leaves. The leaf cures to a milk-chocolate brown. The nicotine is average. The aroma of the kilned leaf is a lovely, mild cigar aroma. It's one of my favorite blenders for filler. It adds complexity to the taste and aroma. It can also be used as a wrapper, and gives a smooth, mild taste to the tongue. It was one of my most hardy seedlings, and matured earliest in the garden. Its closely spaced nodes, and rather acute stalk-stem angle (similar to PA Red) made it slightly more challenging for inspection and bug picking. The seed pods were prolific. If the top 4 leaves of each plant are allowed to fully mature before harvesting, they kiln into a smooth, sweet, delicious and full-bodied filler. Though a short plant, the number of leaves averaged 16, with leaves reaching 31.5" x 11".

As for that much copied-and-pasted comment about the smell of Cuban Yara tobacco in the field, so far as I can find in the literature, the original comments were made by "experts" who were quoting what someone else had said. I found no such statement by anyone who had actually experienced it personally. I haven't found Yara as a variety anywhere, including Cuban websites and the ARS-GRIN database. Cuban Yara cigars, produced in the eastern part of the island, apparently contained at least some portion of a primitive leaf variety that I am unable to identify.

I paid extra attention to the aroma of the plant and to its blossoms. It seemed to have the very same aroma as each of the other 15 varieties that I grew last season. Perhaps it was a shade more intense, but the same aroma nonetheless. So I would classify this assertion as rural legend.



Bob

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Thanks Bob, That's the kind of info I was looking for.
Randy B

 

[Chicken]

is the name of the plant,,, the origin of the cigar named '' little dutch''?

 

[deluxestogie]

In Pennsylvania, during the colonial days, when the German immigrants came into the state speaking the German language (Deutsch, pronounced Doych), the English colonists mislabeled them "Pennsylvania Dutch." The origin of Little Dutch tobacco is believed to be Germany, and was grown in western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio. It was widely used in domestic cigar production until the middle of the 20th Century. Currently it is part of the blend used in Marsh Wheeling Deluxe Stogies.

I'm not aware of a cigar named "Little Dutch."

Bob

 

[Chicken]

i think the little dutch cigar,,,is a type like the BLACK AND MILD,,,

perhaps im wrong, i just though i reconize that name from looking at the small cigars at the store,???

 

[FmGrowit]

i think the little dutch cigar,,,is a type like the BLACK AND MILD,,,

Maybe...

 

[deluxestogie]

Since I had planned to do a write-up of each of the varieties I've grown, I'll just complete this one with pics of the young plant and when fully grown.

Days to maturity (transplant to 50% plants in one flower) = 40.
I grew these at a density of 2.5 sq. ft. per plant, which seems to be adequate for growth, but the close spacing together with Little Dutch's sharp leaf angle made removal of suckers and pests troublesome. I had no problem with leaf breakage.

I believe Little Dutch would be an excellent candidate for growing in a 5-gallon bucket.

Bob

 

[Jitterbugdude]

"Unfortunately" I've decided to add this to my list of new varieties to grow this year. Every year I keep thinking I'm going to limit my varieties to about 3 or 4. I'm up to 12 this year, last year was 15. I'm somewhat intrigued by this variety. I'm hoping it will make a nice pipe tobacco (as pointed out by Killebrew)
There's always next year....

 

[ChuckP]

Deluxe - Great Wrap-up on Little Dutch!! Kip, a grower from Wildwood, VA grew Little Dutch. He rolled the Little Dutch as the wrapper and used Havana Long Red as the filler. Great Smoke!

Randy - Good luck, I'm as talented as you and can only handle grow six or seven varieties. I'm not as talented as the masters. It's great to see all the pictures and read the write-ups.

 

[deluxestogie]

ChuckP,
I agree. Little Dutch makes a very tasty wrapper. My yield of wrapper grade was only around 20% of the leaf. Because the leaf is so long, and with an acute lateral vein angle to the central vein, you could probably wrap a 15" long cigar with it, but it is narrow enough that there is minimal overlap of the wraps. So I found that Little Dutch as a wrapper nearly always required a binder, and a binder that has substantial width--more width, more overlap. I often don't use a binder at all, especially if the wrapper is nicely intact, and is wide enough to provide an effective seal to the overlap.

Bob

 

[Fisherman]

I have a 1/2 dozen Little Dutch plants in 5 gallon buckets and tryed some leaf that had dried on the plant and it was the most flavorful leaf I have grown to date.

When should I harvest the leaf? I want to try as flue cured if possible. I did some One Sucker in flue chamber and it smokes great too but should be started by itself in chamber as it takes some time to yellow I suppose due to thickness of leaf.

 

[Knucklehead]

When should I harvest the leaf?

See picture, post #2. Cigar leaf is harvested at maturity, rather than when it is ripe. You will see some alligatoring of the leaf texture and the color will change from dark green to a lighter shade of green. Very little to no yellowing.

 

[Knucklehead]

http://wholeleaftobaccollc.com/foru...Best-time-to-prime-for-wrapper-leaf-varieties

http://wholeleaftobaccollc.com/forum/showthread.php?1175-when-to-start-priming

http://wholeleaftobaccollc.com/forum/showthread.php?478-Pictures-of-Cuban-leaf-harvest

http://www.cuba-junky.com/cuba/cigar-harvest-stringing.htm

 

[jekylnz]

Is dutch ohio a x variety of little Dutch?

 

[Fisherman]

Old document from Google Books:

LITTLE DUTCH GROUP
Little Dutch was introduced from Germany by Mr. Rag'endo"f at Miamisburg. Montgomery county. Ohio. Dutch tobabcco enjoys the unenviable reputation of being the only variety of cultivated tobacco which is poisonous to live stock. A small quantity of this variety eaten by animals is almost certain death, and PIE‘ Sumabl)’ would have a similar effect upon man. The demand {01' this variety is variable. From what we can learn. only a few manufacturers use Dutch tobacco at all. It has apeculiar flavor which is very distinctive and which taken together with its peculiarity of being Poisonous, indicates a possibility of its having descended from a different wild species than the one from which Our other varieties have been developed. Formerly this variety was much more extensively cultivated th?“ now» although just at present there is a revival of interest in this sort due to the relatively high prices prevalent during" the Past year‘ The history of Dutch tobacco in late years has been One of great fluctuation in Price and production. The present increflstfd acreage will probably again overstock the market and result "1 reduced prices. There are two well marked types of Little Dutch tobacco‘ The 121Peer leaved type is variously known as “Mule Ear,"

uRagendorf" and “Broad Dutch." Its leaves while narrow in com parison with those of most sorts. are much broader than those of the other variety of Little Dutch known as “Shoestring"or “Narrow Dutch.“ The broader leaved type of Little Dutch seems to have differ entiated into several fairly Well marked strains, which difi‘er among themselves in habit of growth and in size both of the leaves and of the plants as a whole. Within the last year we discovered a large strain. locally known as “Big Dutch." With this exception we have never heard the term “Big Dutch“ used. But the term “Little Dutch" seems to imply that such a variety existed either here or in the country from which Little Dutch was introduced, unless perhaps the prefix “Littie” was added to the word "Dutch" after 'its intro duction into the Miami Valley because of its small size compared with the varieties already under cultivation. It will be remembered that at the time of its introduction, Seedleaf types were almost exclusively grown and of course were much larger than the newly introduced sort. The leaves of both varieties, but especially ofthe Narrow or Shoestring Dutch are very close together, although from the extreme narrowness of their basal portions the internodes appearof ordinary length. Actual measurements of the internodes show that they frequently average less than one inch in length, little more than half of the ordinary length of those of Zimmer Spanish. Bath varieties of Dutch mature early, perhaps a week later than Zimmer Spanish, and produce yields of from one to two hundred pounds more per acre. The surface of the leaves, especially of the broader leaved types, are glossy like Zimmer Spanish. The tobacco usually cures nicely but is somewhat subject to rib rot.

http://books.google.com/books?id=2R...AzgK#v=onepage&q=little dutch tobacco&f=false

 

[deluxestogie]

Interesting quote, Fisherman. I would take the comment about being uniquely poisonous with a grain of salt.

In all likelihood, the "Dutch" of Little Dutch and Dutch Ohio is (like "Pennsylvania Dutch") a miscomprehension of the German word for "German." I find it remarkable that the varieties closest in growth habit to that of Little Dutch are Papante and Mt. Pima, both grown by contemporary natives of north-west Mexico, and possibly derived from uncommon pre-Columbian cultivation of N. tabacum there--N. rustica cultivation was far more common.

How the larger Dutch variety fits into the overall picture is unclear, but Skychaser reports that it is quite distinct from Little Dutch.

Bob

 

[skychaser]

Interesting quote, Fisherman. I would take the comment about being uniquely poisonous with a grain of salt.

Yeah, I doubt it is any more poisonous to livestock than most any other nicotiana is. Otherwise, the descriptions fit both plants well. They are definitely different plants. The Ohio Dutch I have grown fits the description of a broad leaf dutch variety. The yield is much heavier than Little Dutch and similar to other tobaccums.

http://nwtseeds.com/Img_1603_copy.jpg

The flavor and aroma of the two are the same to me, but Ohio Dutch is milder. It's like Little Dutch diluted down some. Both are quite good.

 

[Afrohippie82]

I'm loving this thread!

 

[jekylnz]

Great thread. .interesting info bob .fishermen and Sky..my little is only just over 3 ft tall (planted a bit late though) and ohio is definitely broader alot bigger yielder....and nearer to 6 ft tall..quite similar in taste. .has an strong unusual floral flavour when it's only just cured..before it's aged or fermented.