Whole Leaf Tobacco

Maduro veins

Ginsinjones

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All of you using Maduro wrapper. How are you getting a nice finished look with such thick veins?
I wasn't expecting such massive heavy veins in a wrapper leaf. Also was expecting it to burn better.
Anyways any pointers would be very much appreciated.
Thanks
 

Ginsinjones

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I have smoked 2 with the Ecuador Maduro wrapper. Both had Sumatra binder so I figured I would be fine. The wrapper would get light in color and expand just behind the burn line, filler tobacco tunneling.
Filler criollo ligero, Nicaraguan condega viso and seco

Same thing happened when I tried my sample of corona wrapper.
 

Snowblithe

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One thing you can do is de-vein as you wrap. I know Cohibas are done like that. Basically as the wrapper vein comes up over top of the doll you give the vein a little pinch with your forefinger and thumbnail a centimeter or two from the edge, obviously making sure that the upcoming overlap will cover the torn spot. It requires some confidence as there's no unwrapping and rewrapping once you commit. I managed do it a few times just to see if I could and was successful. I'm there's a video somewhere on the forum or you-tube of a torcador doing this... Maybe @waikikigun?
 

DePasta

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Could be a humidity issue, I find that for the thicker veins I have to let them dry pretty good before putting them in the humidor. The veins will thin out when dry.
Sometimes for burn issues they may require a bit of dry boxing before smoking. Also, with thicker veined wrappers I apply some pressure with the Cheveta or other flat surface and roll the cigar which flattens out the veins and imperfections.
 

Ginsinjones

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One thing you can do is de-vein as you wrap. I know Cohibas are done like that. Basically as the wrapper vein comes up over top of the doll you give the vein a little pinch with your forefinger and thumbnail a centimeter or two from the edge, obviously making sure that the upcoming overlap will cover the torn spot. It requires some confidence as there's no unwrapping and rewrapping once you commit. I managed do it a few times just to see if I could and was successful. I'm there's a video somewhere on the forum or you-tube of a torcador doing this... Maybe @waikikigun?
I am no where near confident enough to plucking them out as I go. I'm very much a rookie at rolling
 

Ginsinjones

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Could be a humidity issue, I find that for the thicker veins I have to let them dry pretty good before putting them in the humidor. The veins will thin out when dry.
Sometimes for burn issues they may require a bit of dry boxing before smoking. Also, with thicker veined wrappers I apply some pressure with the Cheveta or other flat surface and roll the cigar which flattens out the veins and imperfections.
I'm going to dry them way down and hopefully the burn improves.
I have been pushing into the vein as I roll and rolling it gently under a board after. I tried rolling one out with a rolling pin prior to rolling as well.
I got a sample of the Los Rios wrapper on this order. I like working with that one quite a bit more than the Maduro.
I guess I will hope for the best until I can put together another order. I might try some CT shade or the Los Rios on that order.
My main hope is that the burn improves
 

Snowblithe

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I am no where near confident enough to plucking them out as I go. I'm very much a rookie at rolling
If it helps I found it much easier than I thought it would be. Otherwise I think I've seen a video where someone uses a rolling pin to flatten the leaf but I've not tried it. I think it would bruise the leaf but maybe with maduro you could get away it.
Edit: I didn't see your rolling pin comment or DePasta's comment. That seems far more to hand than a rolling pin.
 

MarcL

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Utilize as much of the outer edge as possible and remove as much of the inner bit as you can.
If you want to flatten the vein, be sure the veining has had enough time to absorb enough moister. If you use something like a socket to localize the pressure you will limit damage to the lamina. (leaf inners) do it lightly in succession.
If you want to pluck out the vein, until you get better at it, roll the stick around some then back to better gauge at what point to pluck. After you pinch, you'll want to pull straight inline with the vein. You may need to use a finger or two to keep the lamina from tearing to much. .. keep two nails sharp or use a scissor to sever the vein. .. you'll sever/pluck at the point where the vein sets on top of the bunch just before it gets rolled under.
After the wrapper is on, you will get the vein to bury itself into the bunch if the bunch is soft enough by pressing/rolling itself between the chaveta knife and the board. .. only do this in the same direction as wrapper application.

Over booking the leaf will create burn issues. .. any time leaves lay flat against themselves in a finished stick defines booking is how to look at it.
Limiting overlap in the wrapper and binder.
These types of wrapper leaves are challenging when burned earlier.
There's a way to get air pockets between the binder and wrapper by, when binding, binding in a manner where your bunching loosely and applying the binder in a way that the tautness really doesn't come into play until the last bit by refraining from tugging on the binder and turning the bunch round only.
If your using a mold, the binding to ring gauge is larger then typical for the mold size. Your almost stuffing the bound bunch in the mold. After pressing, what happens is that the mold forces the bound bunch, creating wrinkles along the doll (molded bound bunch) length wise. .. this will work in paper molding as well.
 

Ginsinjones

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Thanks for all the advice, your knowledge and experience is a godsend for new rollers.
Can you suggest a good wrapper with good burn for smaller gauge cigars?
I'm looking at bronceado, oscuro, criollo, and Ecuador CT shade.
I like to smoke within a day or 2 of rolling and only roll a few at a time.
I just feel lost as to what to buy. I need a good binder wrapper combo.
Thanks for your help
 

Ginsinjones

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Once I start rolling more in a sitting I will let many rest. I don't want to roll a bunch and find they won't burn worth a damn or something.
Just looking through the binders and wrappers on WLT now and trying to pick a binder as well.
Looking at the CV dominican seco for use as a binder and filler.
 

MarcL

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Yeah, your not alone, you don't have to roll a bunch, just a few or one or so to save. the thing is they will transition as time goes on but, make it your own is what I'll say. I noticed some restocking going on. That is alot to choose from. I will have to pull out something to and look at it to jar my memory. I was just working the CVPA and Pelo d'Oro secos.
 

MarcL

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I remember you were trying to be a little thrifty so I'm thinking CT 2006. I had a sample of the Hab. 92 and its delicate but workable. the Cameroon is really very nice to consider but, I'm glad the olor binder is back. I'll be getting more of that and, that Vuelta Abajo binder is a special something. flavorful but can be thicker. been through a few of them. I feel for you.
 

Ginsinjones

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I'm at the point where I don't want to be thrifty. I just want stuff that will work well. I have been using so much filler for binder and wrapper that I just want something special. That CT 2006 does look pretty good but one of the reviews said it has a higher number of damaged leaves.
Thin veins and good burn for wrapper.
I have no issue continuing using filler as binder. I just want some easy, tasty wrapper to finish it off.
I recieved a sample of the Cameroon and it worked very well for my size cigars. Burned great and was very easy to work with, it was just very plain.
 
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MarcL

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I have been thinking about you. Let me say I do appreciate your appreciation for sure so your welcome.
I attempted to burn some blends I thought to have more challenging leaf in them that have been resting. I also burned two ROTT. (right of the table)
The two ROTT started out alright but went a little sour with burn difficulty. One of them I cut out the burnt and lit after it cooled. I was able to burn the rest of it. they were bunched loosely w/o a mold. The smoke was enjoyable and as expected. but, a shadow of what I feel it would be after resting into its own.
The three rested sticks I pulled had no issues. I'll share if you like but, the leaf is away from my points.
I do want to help people where I can. We have to come together to find out what that means. Given the subjectivity that this brings, most valued practice is with self. I don't know if that work can be supplemented. I am not a fan of discouragement. Look for inspiration to make it your own. You are not alone. For me, it is what I did. .. is this helping anyone?
 
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