My big never answered question. Fertilizer

[Daniel]

Last year I never really found an answer to fertilizer. It is about the only thing I did not get done to my satisfaction. We simply grew it all on weekly feeding of Miracle Grow for Tomatoes.
For 132 plants that worked but was way to expensive. this year we will grow a total of 1783 plants. 1651 in a field with traditional spacing etc. and 132 in buckets like last year.
In the past I have gotten suggestions which are either Rainbow for Tobacco which I cannot buy locally and never did find a place to order it online. or generic names of chemicals etc to use such as calcium nitrate. Again they cannot be found locally. The only thing I can find is the lawn fertilizers that are sold by Lowes or Home Depot this is not an agricultural area.
What I really need is a name and even a link to a source for a good fertilizer to add to the soil as we plant and then a name and source for a nitrogen boost at 4 to 6 weeks. We really cannot even think about a weekly feeding for this many plants so it needs to be a more traditional bang bang.
If you have it I also need an idea of how much I will need per plant. A teaspoon, table spoon, cup or whatever. The lot is about 2/3 of an acre but I am not going to broadcast fertilize it.
Hope someone can help on this one.
I like the idea of Rainbow but have no idea how much I need or if it can be got. I heard they burned down last year. Anyway thanks for any help cause I am just really stuck on this issue and in a must have need for a real fertilizer this year.

PS all I know about the soil is it is sandy loam in the dessert. this tends to be really fertile soil but I don't have soil tests and do not think I will be able to get them. IT might be possible the land owner has had tests done. IF I can I will and I know that will help with recommendations. For now I am hoping there is a sure bet something I can feed the plants as we plant them and I am not really worried if the soil needed it or not.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

You really need to get a soil test done first. No sense in adding potassium ( or any other element) if your soil does not need it. Adding too much nitrogen will make your leaves thicker and also effect how it cures, too much potassium effects your ash etc etc. Last year I fed my tobacco nothing and it still grew like a weed. I suspect this year though that I will have to add a small amount of cotton seed meal.

Randy B

ps... did I mention to get a soil test?

 

[BigBonner]

Daniel

Have you tried a feed store , garden center or a southern states feed store ?

Check to see if you can find where growers of corn , soybeans , Alfalfa hay or any vegetable crops get their supply in your area .Most fertilizers now can be bought bulk . Bulk fertilizer is mixed at the store to meet your fertilizer specifications ( blend ).There is one within 6 miles of me and three more within 25 mile of me .They can blend to your soil test .
Have you seen any fertilizer buggies traveling to farms where you live ? . I would bet that there is a supplyer there some where .

I personally don't put much faith in the liquid rainbow fertilizer . I cant see a few gallons of liquid fertilizer supplying enough nutrients compared to a ton of regular granular fertilizer .Granular fertilizer will mix eveningly through the tilled soil and roots can grow out to feed on it. Large scale tanks of nitrate can be drilled into the soil and does work but I have never heard of it being used on tobacco only on corn and soy beans .

I have seen the liquid tobacco fertilizer here but I have never used it as the only fertilizer for the plants .

A soil test to know what you need would be best .You may need lime to adjust the PH . If the Ph isn't right the plants will not take up fertilizer no matter how much you use .
Pouring fertilizer in one spot like liquid fertilizer the plant will stand there and eat the roots will have no reason to grow out to find other nutrients . With granular the roots will grow out to find their food making a better standing plant .


On land here where I am, and I don't know what the tobacco needs . I use around 400 to 600 lbs of potash and and 350 lbs nitrate pre transplant and another 300 lbs two weeks after transplant . ( Urea Is the same just use a little less ) .This is per acre . One acre is 43,560 sqf
If I think it need lime I apply hot lime . This I can mix with the bulk fertilizer I buy .

This is for Burley each type of tobacco needs different nutrients that the other .

I soil test new fields every year and the second year I go by the first years soil test . the third year the land is put to rest as a hay crop ..

I will check and see about the liquid fertilizer for you and get back to you .

 

[BigBonner]

Daniel

Here is what I found by directions from my local source .
The liquid is a foiluar spray . You will need regular fertilizer under the soil .
This is the same liquid fertilizer that I have used before to spray on stressed tobacco . It does work to some extent but is not a replacement for regular fertilizer .The type I have used was a soluable powder . The same as I use in my float bed water .

Check out www.montysplantfood.com

Look up montys plant food tobacco on youtube .

 

[dkh2]

Man thanks for bringing this up.
I totally forgot about my soil test.
I'm going to get the Basic Soil Test #4
this year it's only 12 bucks compared to 7 bucks for the basic test #1 I got last year
I really want to see how much of the nutrients the Tobacco used from the soil.

http://www.watersag.com/frame.htm

 

[SmokesAhoy]

So the tobacco I grew last year was grown in what has been a hayfield for at least a few decades and didn't produce detectable nicotine, was that because the soil was too rich? If I use the same plot again now that it has been leached somewhat do you think it will grow better tobacco?

 

[FmGrowit]

Tons of excellent information here.

Yes, a soil test is almost required unless you know the history of the land. If it was a cow pasture for 50 years, you'll need lime and not too much else. If they raised cactus on the land, you'll need composted manure (for an organic crop).

Soil test are free in some States through your county extension office. It's worth a call anyway.

SmokesAhoy, I really think your problem is temperature related. Temperatures affect nicotine levels in the plants. The higher the average temperature during the growing season, the more nicotine the plant produces. This might be another reason some places (like Cuba) harvest earlier than other areas. I'd really try to create some kind of tent for your plants. I'll post some pictures of a system I recently saw a little later.

 

[BigBonner]

SmokesAhoy
Thats it You just can't grow tobacco in VT. Minus wells to quit while you're ahead . Just buy it from Me or Fmgrowit .

You have a big weather difference from tobacco grown here in Ky or OH . I would say it is the main reason for nicotine . It could be some minerals in your soil that we don't have . Next years crop may be totally the opposite than this years crop . I know my 2010 crop is harsher than my 2011 crop .

 

[SmokesAhoy]

Well I've seen people further north of me do it.I'm not prepared to quit. Hell some people want nicotine reduced leaves maybe there is a market here in the stuff. Yeah you guys have primo leaf that is for sure

 

[BigBonner]

SmokesAhoy

The soil may be most of the difference . Here , my farms have solid limestone rock in the hilly places and limestone rocks in creeks and some flat fields . The limestone rock is the same as lime just crushed up fine as dust . I can buy tons of it at the rock quarys here to spread on my tobacco fields .
There is even a difference in the quality of lime that comes from each rock quary . The USDA has sampled each quary and each one has a difference in the quality of the lime that comes out of them .

I see VT has alot of hard rock .
Our topsoil was made mostly from the limestone .
In the limestone rock there is alot of fossils . I find alot of Platystrophia fossils embeded inside of rocks and the weather has eroded the tops of plate size rocks and you can see the fossils good .

Here is a picture of a fossil that is now limestone rock .

 

[Chicken]

i use chicken-manure in my garden,,,,

this coming weekend we will be tilling, and spreading the poop,

 

[BigBonner]

I thought this would fit in here if may not just delete it .This is for organic fertilizer .I noticed that Bat guano mixed with poultry manure and blood meal would have great uses .

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Horticulture/manures.htm

 

[Chicken]

I thought this would fit in here if may not just delete it .This is for organic fertilizer .I noticed that Bat guano mixed with poultry manure and blood meal would have great uses .

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Horticulture/manures.htm

very intresting link,,,

i let my manure sit under a covered tarp for 3 months then till it in,,, and let it get rained on and decompose a little, so when i do drop a plant in it,,, it doesnt burn it up...

this year i may try my luck with a little DOLOMITE, my area has more limerock than you can shake a stick at,

allthough the manure has good advantages,, it also has it's drawbacks....

for the past 3 months ive had a lot of flies in the house,, i try to keep them out, but they find ways of getting in,,,, just like the pile of covered poop,,'' allthough it's covered the flies find ways of getting to it, and laying thier larvae,, thus giving me flies, not to mention the poop, is stockpiled 1/4 mile from my house,,,,

i can look across a cowfield and see the plastic coverd mountain of chicken poop,, the guy who owns it, is a poultry farmer, and seels the poop, to hayfields, i deliver some of it to a organic farm,,"" THATS HOW I GOT MY LITTLE BIT''..... on a delivery i put some in my yard,,,,

i drive a dump-truck daily,,,

 

[dkh2]

Buy some Red Worms for that manure they eat that it up like stink on @#@#

 

[dkh2]

The largest improvement we often see by the addition of worm castings is in the root structure of plants. In the experiment the first picture shows there was an increase of 173.5% over plants grown without castings and again it only took 10% addition of castings to produce these results.

Even though worm castings are a very concentrated fertilizer and soil amendment, they will never burn your plants like synthetic based fertilizers will. Also worm castings provide all the micro-nutrients necessary for plant growth that cheaper fertilizers may not.

My own experiment

 

[dkh2]

Notice the bigger leaves on those bean plants ?
They were planted the same day and the only difference is I added worm castings to the soil
Worm Castings are Worm Manure and the smell like new dirt

 

[Chicken]

dkh2


i really like the way you form a opinion based on your own experimentation,,,,

you have baccy growing down to a SCIENCE,,

 

[Ishi]

Daniel;
Check the feed stores at Fallon. That would be the closest AG area to Reno. They grow a lot of hay there.

 

[Daniel]

Ishi, Thanks. As it turns out I have to pass through Fernley to get to the plot. We went twice through Virginia city but the mountain is making everyone car sick. So we finally tried the Fernley route and it is just as fast. better highway but not as scenic. Fallon will be a better bet than Fernley and is not much further than we already are.

I did get the soil sample over the weekend so everyone can be proud of me for being a good boy. That doesn't happen often so be proud of me, lol. I so have to get my worm box made. I have the plywood and lumber on my back patio just to many projects on the fire right now. Still there is not enough time to produce the amount of casting I need between now and then. There are some cattle ranches around where this land is but this is open range territory and not a lot of lots where they would have composted manure piled up. I am going to watch craigs list just in case and maybe even post a request for a truck load to be delivered to the lot.

Okay as for what I know about the soil right now. it has a 6 to 8 inch layer of almost pure silt. almost no clay and as far as I can tell not much sand. Under that silt is a hard pan pretty much 100 percent clay layer. this stuff will soften up when gotten wet but roots still have to work to get through it. From what I have been told once they do it has nutrients in it. There are also a ton of rocks in that clay. at times nearly solid rock. I am not going to be able to til this plot. I am going to stick the plants in holes that we dig by hand. We will add amendments that we can at the time of planting but that is going to be it. I don't think you could plow this land even if I had one. it would have to be dug up with a backhoe. to get a good mix of sand silt and clay I would then have to bring in an 8 inch layer of sand alone and still end up with way to much clay in it all. In my experience I have grown gardens in similar soil and things will grow. just not as well as they do in looser soils. That there is several inches of silt is an improvement over most soils around here. In a nut shell this is what I have to work with and it beats nothing at all. If I owned it and was going to grow on it for several years I would probably invest in all that sand get it mixed with the silt and end up with a respectable layer of mix for the tobacco to grow in. I am still thinking that maybe a couple of yards of sand and we mix it in right where the plant wil be started might help. Not sure it wll make enough of a difference to justify the labor though. I am goign to do another shake test from some soil I took from a little deeper than the first one and see if I end up with more sand.

Well anyway that is the low down on the soil report for today. not the best not the worst so far. I was also told this soil tends to be on the alkali side as well but from what I have seen in the past the Ph of soil around here lands in the range needed. that is usually good news but the soil analysis will tell us for sure.

 

[johnlee1933]

Daniel,

The commercial grower I know uses ammonium nitrate nitrate before planting. He also uses cotton seed meal and applies it at the same time.
The ammonium nitrate gives nitrogen quickly and the cotton seed meal feeds it slowly all year. I tried that route last year with good results.
My CT shade went over 8 feet.

This same fellow chops his stalks in the field and tills them under in the fall to preserve phosphorus and keep the soil light.

Hope this helps

John

Oh Yeah, I have a bunch of little cherry, maple and oak sticks for you as soon as I get to the post office.