New to RYO and looking for leaves/blends close to American Spirit Yellow

[silverback]

Cigarettes price in CA is ridiculous expensive and with the pandemic and all that, I would like to start rolling my own cigarettes. I smoke American Spirit yellow most of the time and occasionally Davidoff white when I travel overseas. I have a few questions:
- What leaves/blends are close to American Spirit? Saw some posts and seems Hand Tied Flue Cured Virginia is the closest one. The 2nd closest one is the Canadian Flue Cured Virginia Lemon. Some reviews stated blend with Flue Cured Virginia Thin Leaf (First Priming) is a good blend too.
- I am also a cigar smoker and have basic knowledge of properly store/aging cigars. What's the requirement for cigarettes tobacco (leaves)? I live in CA where the RH is around 45~50%
- I have a herb grinder but might be too much work to shred enough leaves to fill say 200 cigarettes at once. The "budget manual shredder" seems a good choice. Which one is good for cigarettes? 0.8mm or 1.5mm?

Any suggestions are welcomed.

 

[Iowalez]

Welcome to the forum.

Yellow are the lights. Dark yellow box is organic tobacco, light yellow is regular tobacco. You're going to want to use tubes for light cigs if you want to recreate your yellows. Its the filters that makes your yellows milder. I was smoking the perique, in the black box. I imagine all the American Spirits are blends so they can recreate the same taste over millions of packs.

I was hoping more experienced folks would answer before I offered my newbie advice. I'm pretty new to this but I already outgrew the budget shredder and am getting the heavy duty shredder. You want the 0.8mm one for cigs.

Stock up on leaves during the WLT Black Friday sale. I smoke a pack a day. I've gotten about 1.5 cartons of cigs from one pound of destemmed organic Canadian flue cued leaf blended with a quarter pound of destemmed perique leaves. I destemmed and shredded it all while I watched tv online on election night. It was a long process. There is some work involved in MYO. I'm going to get more leaves during the sale since tobacco doesn't spoil.

I prefer to make a pack fresh every day as I play around with the 9 variety sampler of leaves. I'm not stuck on only recreating American Spirit Periques. Making 200 cigs all at once with a manual injector feels kind of daunting and boring. I want to enjoy the process as well as the results.

I have been using Mascotte Gold tubes I bought on EBay. I like them the best so far. You'll also need to buy an injector machine to fill the tubes. There's a bit of monetary outlay when you start making your own, before you start saving money. I basically spent the equivalent $ of two cartons to get started and make about 8 cartons of cigs. I was gifted the injector. Now I'm planning on growing 12 varieties in my garden next year to further reduce the cost.

 

[silverback]

Welcome to the forum.

Yellow are the lights. Dark yellow box is organic tobacco, light yellow is regular tobacco. You're going to want to use tubes for light cigs if you want to recreate your yellows. Its the filters that makes your yellows milder. I was smoking the perique, in the black box. I imagine all the American Spirits are blends so they can recreate the same taste over millions of packs.

I was hoping more experienced folks would answer before I offered my newbie advice. I'm pretty new to this but I already outgrew the budget shredder and am getting the heavy duty shredder. You want the 0.8mm one for cigs.

Stock up on leaves during the WLT Black Friday sale. I smoke a pack a day. I've gotten about 1.5 cartons of cigs from one pound of destemmed organic Canadian flue cued leaf blended with a quarter pound of destemmed perique leaves. I destemmed and shredded it all while I watched tv online on election night. It was a long process. There is some work involved in MYO. I'm going to get more leaves during the sale since tobacco doesn't spoil.

I prefer to make a pack fresh every day as I play around with the 9 variety sampler of leaves. I'm not stuck on only recreating American Spirit Periques. Making 200 cigs all at once with a manual injector feels kind of daunting and boring. I want to enjoy the process as well as the results.

I have been using Mascotte Gold tubes I bought on EBay. I like them the best so far. You'll also need to buy an injector machine to fill the tubes. There's a bit of monetary outlay when you start making your own, before you start saving money. I basically spent the equivalent $ of two cartons to get started and make about 8 cartons of cigs. I was gifted the injector. Now I'm planning on growing 12 varieties in my garden next year to further reduce the cost.

@Iowalez thanks for the information, that's very helpful. Just visit the official site, the dark yellow is branded as "Gold" which is a bit light for me.

A pack of cigarettes usually last 4~5 days for me so I might just get the budget shredder. For storage, I will just keep it in a mason jar to avoid direct sunlight should be okay. I already have an injector, still trying to learn how to use it, guess I packed too much tobacco.

Saw the Black Friday sale, will buy few pounds along with the budget shredder. Thanks again.

 

[MarcL]

Solid advice from the newbie. There is plug and coin cutting to get a shred. To be clear, "this year's Black Friday deal"



is as you see the "BLACK FRIDAY CYBER MONDAY Sale" from https://wholeleaftobacco.com/ not the other ones. also linked at the top as "Shop Now".

ask if there is any thing else you have any questions about.

 

[burge]

Well I have no clue on American Spirits but I do think there is burly in the mix. The budget shredder is only to start and I would highly recommend the heavy duty shredder. You buy the cheap one and you will regret it. The tobacco will keep in the vapor proof bags. It will dry out after a long period of time but it will not go bad or stale. I am not sure what cigs you smoke normally. T double virginia red hand tied would be the ranges I would look at for tobacco. The Cdn is light and sweet, American flue cured is good too. Burly Big Bonner another tobacco seller has good burly. A lighter burly is the yellow twist bud. From some one with experience this sale is once year only. Take advantage. This is the best tobacco you can buy

 

[Iowalez]

@Iowalez thanks for the information, that's very helpful. Just visit the official site, the dark yellow is branded as "Gold" which is a bit light for me.

A pack of cigarettes usually last 4~5 days for me so I might just get the budget shredder. For storage, I will just keep it in a mason jar to avoid direct sunlight should be okay. I already have an injector, still trying to learn how to use it, guess I packed too much tobacco.

Saw the Black Friday sale, will buy few pounds along with the budget shredder. Thanks again.

Right. Gold AS is the equivalent of light. The turquoise is full strength cigs. If yellow is actually lighter than you prefer, then go with regular filter tubes instead of lights.

Recently what I'm doing is destemming an entire bag of leaves and just shredding a baggie full for blending. The leaves are stored in the vapor proof bag they came in, folded closed with clothes pins. If you store in a mason jar, you'll need half gallon size for that much shred. I don't think sunlight affects stored tobacco. Aging tobacco is a good thing.

You might be fine with the budget shredder since you don't smoke that much. My budget shredder came from Leaf Only and the clamp on it sucks big time. It will only fit on the edge of a wooden tv tray and comes loose during use. Think hard about the shredder you buy, because its the first thing you'll outgrow. In general I have always thrown money at my hobbies to get the best gear because it paid off so quickly in the end results, whether handspinning, beer brewing, or cheesemaking. Same goes for my work tools and materials. Only the best. But I cheaped out and hadn't found WLT and this forum to know what I was doing. Clean the cutting rollers with hot water and a scrubber toothbrush when it starts getting hard to crank. I did it under the kitchen faucet. The rollers will get gummed up and become harder and harder to turn with the crank. I didn't know that at first, either. Thankfully more experienced members were generous with tips and info in response to my newbie posts.

The injector takes a bit of use to get the hang of. AS cigs are pretty tightly packed compared to other brands. That's why one cig burns so much longer than other brands. So you'll want to pack the tubes full without making the injector lever too hard to push. Once you've made a few packs it gets easier and you'll be more consistent. I'm really liking these Mascotte Gold tubes. They taste better, draw easy, (the filter is only half the length of the printed cork pattern on the tube) and work flawlessly with the injector. Gambler brand tubes from the convenience store sucked. I could taste them, too.

I've been paying about $8.50 a pack here. In MN they're over $10. I can only imagine the tax in tobacco-hating California. I assume CA meant California and not Canada. I may be spending money on MYO gear now, but the long term savings are huge when I'm saving over $50 a carton.

What part of California are you in? I'm from rural northern Cali. Lake County, where Clear Lake is. North of SF and Sacto. In the mountains. Spent 26 years there. Been in Iowa since 2008 and wouldn't go back for love nor money. I can smoke here without being treated like a pos criminal, and I don't have to sleep with one eye open due to a year round wildfire season. Iowa is far more affordable to live in. The only thing I don't like here is the politics.

 

[silverback]

Right. Gold AS is the equivalent of light. The turquoise is full strength cigs. If yellow is actually lighter than you prefer, then go with regular filter tubes instead of lights.

Recently what I'm doing is destemming an entire bag of leaves and just shredding a baggie full for blending. The leaves are stored in the vapor proof bag they came in, folded closed with clothes pins. If you store in a mason jar, you'll need half gallon size for that much shred. I don't think sunlight affects stored tobacco. Aging tobacco is a good thing.

You might be fine with the budget shredder since you don't smoke that much. My budget shredder came from Leaf Only and the clamp on it sucks big time. It will only fit on the edge of a wooden tv tray and comes loose during use. Think hard about the shredder you buy, because its the first thing you'll outgrow. In general I have always thrown money at my hobbies to get the best gear because it paid off so quickly in the end results, whether handspinning, beer brewing, or cheesemaking. Same goes for my work tools and materials. Only the best. But I cheaped out and hadn't found WLT and this forum to know what I was doing. Clean the cutting rollers with hot water and a scrubber toothbrush when it starts getting hard to crank. I did it under the kitchen faucet. The rollers will get gummed up and become harder and harder to turn with the crank. I didn't know that at first, either. Thankfully more experienced members were generous with tips and info in response to my newbie posts.

The injector takes a bit of use to get the hang of. AS cigs are pretty tightly packed compared to other brands. That's why one cig burns so much longer than other brands. So you'll want to pack the tubes full without making the injector lever too hard to push. Once you've made a few packs it gets easier and you'll be more consistent. I'm really liking these Mascotte Gold tubes. They taste better, draw easy, (the filter is only half the length of the printed cork pattern on the tube) and work flawlessly with the injector. Gambler brand tubes from the convenience store sucked. I could taste them, too.

I've been paying about $8.50 a pack here. In MN they're over $10. I can only imagine the tax in tobacco-hating California. I assume CA meant California and not Canada. I may be spending money on MYO gear now, but the long term savings are huge when I'm saving over $50 a carton.

What part of California are you in? I'm from rural northern Cali. Lake County, where Clear Lake is. North of SF and Sacto. In the mountains. Spent 26 years there. Been in Iowa since 2008 and wouldn't go back for love nor money. I can smoke here without being treated like a pos criminal, and I don't have to sleep with one eye open due to a year round wildfire season. Iowa is far more affordable to live in. The only thing I don't like here is the politics.

Interesting, did not know the filter makes difference.

You are right, I usually start with "budget" equipment/tool when I pick up a hobby and always end up getting higher-end (I wouldn't say best) equipment anyways. I think I might just go for the heavy-duty one like you suggested. I am not a very handy person to begin with, why bother LOL. I have a few mason jars sitting around and might just use them for storage purposes. I know cigars taste better after aging, I have some are aged for 10 years and its taste amazing. Did not know it applies to cigarette tobacco too.

I am in California (Santa Clara County) a place that has nothing but a bunch of computer-related companies. I usually buy one carton at a time and it cost about $107(ouch). You are right, it's getting difficult to smoke without people looking at, not to mention cigars. The best place to smoke cigars is actually on the golf course. But again, the green fee has gone crazy in the past decade.

Try to learn this RYO thing not only to save some money, but the bottom line is also, at least I know what I am smoking. Thanks again for all the info.

 

[MarcL]

Keep in mind that light tubes are designed by making holes in them.

 

[silverback]

Keep in mind that light tubes are designed by making holes in them.

I see. I used to smoke Davidoff cigarettes, noticed there are holes (and some charcoal filter) right in the middle of filter....feel I was smoking air. I usually just rip the tip in half.....

 

[deluxestogie]

You might have a look at the Cigarettes section of the WLT Wiki:

WLT Wiki: Cigarettes

Bob

 

[burge]

Chesterfield I believe are all burley Davidoff is the flake blend of tobacco the blue pipe tobacco is cavendish burly and virginia for the blue. For ryo I have a crank injector they are the best. The English mixture adds perique and latakia so if trying to complete a blend you will get something close with hleaf tobacco as there pipe tobacco follows the blend in there cigarettes

 

[burge]

Davidoff cig are also Virginia burley and oriental Got it all covered now. They were aromatic so probably the post above would give it that flavour. us Canadians are all virginia smokers. To get something close order during the sale and stock up. So i will propose a few ideas to try. A) 5% perique 5% latakia 30% burley 60% viriginia.
B) 30% oriental 70% virginia. C) 30% burley 20 oriental 45viriginia and 5 latakia. The combinations are endless but in some cases you can inject some fire cure in that too.

 

[silverback]

Took the advantage of Black Friday, ordered 6lbs different kind of Virginia, Burley, Perique (0.5) and the heavy-duty shredder. Thanks to @Iowalez @burge suggestion, even with the heavy-duty shredder, I am a little struggle to operate (mainly not bolt it on the table), I can't imagine how difficult it will be if I order a budget shredder.

Tried the first cigarette with 100% Virginia Lemon, close to AS Yellow but not quite; try the 2nd one with 70% Virginia Lemon and 30% Burley, it tastes much better/closer to AS Yellow. Will try different blending and see how it goes.

It's the holiday season, another SIP order is coming. Wish all of you a safe holiday season.

 

[burge]

Not a problem. I order as much as I can or that the border would allow. Glad you too advantage of the sale. This is the best stuff. Have fun experimenting.

 

[Iowalez]

Silverback, check out my thread about fastening down the shredder and the solution Bob came up with. I want to use it on my kitchen table, on top of a bath towel so it doesn't get scratched, and have my left hand free to feed in leaves. Just look in the list of new posts and you'll see it.

I love the shredder, too. Its built like a real machine, not the toy beginner shredder. I've been shredding quite a bit with it already. I shredded some of the new Krumograd T2 with some Virginia Lemon to see what it tastes like. Made ten cigs with it. Its nice. Very smooth. I'd grow it if seeds were available. Next I will compare the 2018 and 2019 Stacked Basma.

 

[Knucklehead]

Took the advantage of Black Friday, ordered 6lbs different kind of Virginia, Burley, Perique (0.5) and the heavy-duty shredder. Thanks to @Iowalez @burge suggestion, even with the heavy-duty shredder, I am a little struggle to operate (mainly not bolt it on the table), I can't imagine how difficult it will be if I order a budget shredder.

Tried the first cigarette with 100% Virginia Lemon, close to AS Yellow but not quite; try the 2nd one with 70% Virginia Lemon and 30% Burley, it tastes much better/closer to AS Yellow. Will try different blending and see how it goes.

It's the holiday season, another SIP order is coming. Wish all of you a safe holiday season.

Silverback, check out my thread about fastening down the shredder and the solution Bob came up with. I want to use it on my kitchen table, on top of a bath towel so it doesn't get scratched, and have my left hand free to feed in leaves. Just look in the list of new posts and you'll see it.

I love the shredder, too. Its built like a real machine, not the toy beginner shredder. I've been shredding quite a bit with it already. I shredded some of the new Krumograd T2 with some Virginia Lemon to see what it tastes like. Made ten cigs with it. Its nice. Very smooth. I'd grow it if seeds were available. Next I will compare the 2018 and 2019 Stacked Basma.

I haven’t tried it yet, but you can remove the handle and turn the shredder with a battery drill.

Did yours come with the food grade blade oil? Using the ”oil” made mine turn more freely.

 

[deluxestogie]

Krumograd T2... Its nice. Very smooth. I'd grow it if seeds were available.

I believe the T2 designation is a grading, rather than a varietal name. Northwood Seeds has Krumovgrad. It is a Basma type Oriental. My inclination would be to plant it closely (maybe 9" between plants).

Bob

 

[Iowalez]

No there was no oil in the box. I have food grade lubricant on hand, tho. What parts of it get oiled?

I haven’t tried it yet, but you can remove the handle and turn the shredder with a battery drill.

Did yours come with the food grade blade oil? Using the ”oil” made mine turn more freely.

 

[Iowalez]

I believe the T2 designation is a grading, rather than a varietal name. Northwood Seeds has Krumovgrad. It is a Basma type Oriental. My inclination would be to plant it closely (maybe 9" between plants).

Bob

I see, Then I will get seeds for t for 2022. Already have twelve varieties to grow next year. Yes, I got some 2018 and 2019 Basma and noticed Krumovgrad looks similar.

 

[Knucklehead]

No there was no oil in the box. I have food grade lubricant on hand, tho. What parts of it get oiled?

Just the blades (rollers?) where the leaf is shredded. Just a few drops on your finger run across the rollers. The rollers will run more smoothly with slightly less needed effort, and cleaning gunk out will be easier if you accidentally try to run leaf that was cased too high. Occasionally use a dab of grease on the large gears on the outside of the shredder opposite the side where the handle is if they seem dry.