@NewTobaccoGrower 2024 Grow Log: Florida
- Thread starter NewTobaccoGrower
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NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Yep, this set up is very cheap (I think the mega-light was only about $18), but it's only suitable for a tiny grow of about 1 foot diameter. Except for the center, right under the light-- I think the reason the seedlings directly under the light are smaller and struggling a little is because they're getting way too much light. Am trying to figure out where to set up your hanging lights, am deciding between shelves of a bookcase, or another coatrack set up. Will be interesting to compare growth under those lights to these.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Day 13:
There has been good progress, with a couple of exceptions.
Here, the Rustica:
On left, an outer pot, on right, the inner pot of the hexagonal Ferry-Morse Seed Starter Kit. The left pot had been consistently at about the 700 PPFD range, whereas the inner pot, right under the Ultra Bright LED, was always at about 1200 or more. Clearly the plants in the center pot are somewhat stunted, proving that I should have lowered the pots away from the light somewhat, to get the center pot well below the 1100 range. They say if you're higher than that, and you don't inject CO2, your plants will suffer. Proven correct.
Otherwise, they are doing well, with mostly well-defined and large secondary leaves. Don't know if the plants on the right will recover or remain stunted.
The Yellow Twist Bud:
These, though they had a MUCH lower germination rate than the Rustica (probably due to their not liking the ratio of the soil mix), are looking pretty good, with plenty of secondary leaf growth. Their leaves seem quite a bit thinner, more delicate, and 'floppier' than the Rustica.
The Virginia Brightleaf:
These are having the most issues. The pot on the left of course had a very low germination rate, while something more serious is going on with the pot on the right, which seems to have "frozen" in its growth, just like the previous batch which went wrong. I believe the cause of the deaths of the plants in the previous batch was fungus gnats, of which I noticed many flying around the previous batch, but assumed they were fruit flies or something. I have not seen any around this batch (including not seeing any stuck to a yellow sticky trap next to the plants), probably due to the much drier soil this time around, and the much greater air movement in the room due to 2 strong fans. However, on about Day 2 I did notice a single gnat flying around the pots so I'm wondering if perhaps it was able to lay its eggs in the pot on the right. I believe the gnats have a 2-week larval period so will see if any adults emerge in the next couple of days. If they don't, and the plants continue to grow normally, perhaps the pot has been afflicted with some other factor that is handicapping its growth. I have also acquired "Mosquito Bits" which I will use on the plants if I see any sign of gnats.
The Yellow Orinoco are just now beginning to sprout but are too small to photograph as of yet. I do notice that at this time there are only TWO sprouts of the variety per pot, proving that this variety is likely the most delicate and finnicky of all, and doesn't like this soil ratio.
There has been good progress, with a couple of exceptions.
Here, the Rustica:
On left, an outer pot, on right, the inner pot of the hexagonal Ferry-Morse Seed Starter Kit. The left pot had been consistently at about the 700 PPFD range, whereas the inner pot, right under the Ultra Bright LED, was always at about 1200 or more. Clearly the plants in the center pot are somewhat stunted, proving that I should have lowered the pots away from the light somewhat, to get the center pot well below the 1100 range. They say if you're higher than that, and you don't inject CO2, your plants will suffer. Proven correct.
Otherwise, they are doing well, with mostly well-defined and large secondary leaves. Don't know if the plants on the right will recover or remain stunted.
The Yellow Twist Bud:
These, though they had a MUCH lower germination rate than the Rustica (probably due to their not liking the ratio of the soil mix), are looking pretty good, with plenty of secondary leaf growth. Their leaves seem quite a bit thinner, more delicate, and 'floppier' than the Rustica.
The Virginia Brightleaf:
These are having the most issues. The pot on the left of course had a very low germination rate, while something more serious is going on with the pot on the right, which seems to have "frozen" in its growth, just like the previous batch which went wrong. I believe the cause of the deaths of the plants in the previous batch was fungus gnats, of which I noticed many flying around the previous batch, but assumed they were fruit flies or something. I have not seen any around this batch (including not seeing any stuck to a yellow sticky trap next to the plants), probably due to the much drier soil this time around, and the much greater air movement in the room due to 2 strong fans. However, on about Day 2 I did notice a single gnat flying around the pots so I'm wondering if perhaps it was able to lay its eggs in the pot on the right. I believe the gnats have a 2-week larval period so will see if any adults emerge in the next couple of days. If they don't, and the plants continue to grow normally, perhaps the pot has been afflicted with some other factor that is handicapping its growth. I have also acquired "Mosquito Bits" which I will use on the plants if I see any sign of gnats.
The Yellow Orinoco are just now beginning to sprout but are too small to photograph as of yet. I do notice that at this time there are only TWO sprouts of the variety per pot, proving that this variety is likely the most delicate and finnicky of all, and doesn't like this soil ratio.
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GreenDragon
Well-Known Member
At the size shown in your pics you should be transferring the seedlings into individual pots before the roots get much bigger, unless you are just going to thin these to one seedling per pot.
Every variety acts a little differently in the early stages, but I've found they all eventually take off and catch up to each other. Your babies all look pretty healthy to me.
Every variety acts a little differently in the early stages, but I've found they all eventually take off and catch up to each other. Your babies all look pretty healthy to me.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the encouragement! My plan is to gradually cull them until there are only 3 or so plants per pot, and then transplant all but one out. But am still a little paranoid based on my bad results last time so will wait a couple of days to make sure these survive. Then I'll start culling, which will break my heart... but at this point I don't have the time or infrastructure to raise 100 plants. I'd like to have about one of each variety for seed, and one or two of each variety for the leaves. A couple of months ago I had grand plans to plant many of them outdoors, but weather here in Florida is still only in the 60s during the day and down to low 40s at night. So this time will likely just raise them in large pots, and maybe, if I'm lucky, put one or two in the ground just to see what happens.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Ugh, this morning there were about 5 very young just-germinated Yellow Orinoco seedlings in the pot in the hexagon... now at about 7pm all are dead and shriveled but 1. Wow, massive mortality rate. In the plastic cup there are still 3 alive. So a grand total of 4 plants still living, on only day 2 after their germination--- out of about 75 seeds sown. Yikes, this Yellow Orinoco is extremely delicate.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Day 27:
I've leveled up considerably due to a gift from a loved one who said she's grown tired of seeing my study turn into a gypsy camp of some kind, with several parallel bar-type coat hangers crowding around the room, from which I've dangled various lamp-covered bulbs, illuminating my numerous pots resting on random tables and stools. Got two beautiful Vipar lensed lights which have gotten rave reviews on YouTube, which I've suspended from a new 5-tier steel shelving unit. After strategically suspending all my lights from the shelving unit, it's going to look great and much neater and more compact.
As for the plants themselves, they are developing nicely, with the rankings of comparative development switching around: the Rustica used to be the largest seedlings, but now one pot of the Virginia Brightleaf have gotten HUGE:
The Rustica:
The Yellow Twist Bud:
The Yellow Orinoco (cat knocked over the Solo cup, but I was able to dig the seedlings back out somewhat):
I believe I will have to either cull or transplant some of the Virginia Brightleaf and Rustica, they are becoming too crowded.
I've leveled up considerably due to a gift from a loved one who said she's grown tired of seeing my study turn into a gypsy camp of some kind, with several parallel bar-type coat hangers crowding around the room, from which I've dangled various lamp-covered bulbs, illuminating my numerous pots resting on random tables and stools. Got two beautiful Vipar lensed lights which have gotten rave reviews on YouTube, which I've suspended from a new 5-tier steel shelving unit. After strategically suspending all my lights from the shelving unit, it's going to look great and much neater and more compact.
As for the plants themselves, they are developing nicely, with the rankings of comparative development switching around: the Rustica used to be the largest seedlings, but now one pot of the Virginia Brightleaf have gotten HUGE:
The Rustica:
The Yellow Twist Bud:
The Yellow Orinoco (cat knocked over the Solo cup, but I was able to dig the seedlings back out somewhat):
I believe I will have to either cull or transplant some of the Virginia Brightleaf and Rustica, they are becoming too crowded.
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GreenDragon
Well-Known Member
Nice light! Please give us a review in a week or so of use.. Glad your babies are doing well.
The seedlings look nice. They look ready to take off once you separate or cull to one plant per pot.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Will do. I have taken some PAR measurements and found that the glowing YouTube results for the Vipar are specifically from inside a tent, and without the tent I'm getting maybe 60% or 70% the coverage area as it would be getting inside a reflective grow tent. But still not bad at all. I think I may attempt makeshift reflective walls, by gluing some aluminum foil to cardboard and attaching it to the sides and back of the shelving unit near the lights.
Use white styrofoam panels. Mylar and aluminum foil reflect like mirrors: they reflect dark spots, too. White styrofoam reflects like snow. Ever hear of snow blindness? I actually got it once with a 175W metal halide fixture in a grow chamber lined with styrofoam- hurt just to look at it. Much brighter, much better.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Very interesting concept! And worthy of an experiment, I think. Especially because I just happen to have large pieces of Styrofoam lying around because we just got a new kitchen appliance.
Here goes:
Using the Uni-T UT383 BT Mini Light Meter paired with the PPFD Meter phone app under the Vipar light:
First I took a reading with nothing to the side but the wooden bookcase that's already there:
Next, with a piece of Styrofoam to the side, everything else identical:
Finally, with the aluminum foil:
The Styrofoam provided an increase in PPFD from a piece of wood (bookshelf) of 75, or 11%. The aluminum foil provided an increase from Styrofoam of 19, or 2%; and an increase of 94, or 17% over the wooden bookshelf.
When I get time I'll take a bunch of different readings to see if more regularity is achieved by the Styrofoam over the aluminum foil. I did watch a YouTube video in which various reflective surfaces were tested-- plain white walls, aluminum foil, mylar, no walls at all, black walls, etc. The shiny side of the aluminum foil scored the highest, with the mylar being quite disappointing.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Before I go down a deep Googling rabbit hole, can anyone tell me why the plants are doing this at night? (Newest leaves going vertical, whereas an hour before they were 100% horizontal).
Alpine
Moderator
Quite common behavior for tobacco, but I’ve never noticed it in such young plants. Some strains have a much higher propensity to assume the so called “praying position” at dusk than others, but all tobacco strains “rise” their leaves before it gets dark. I have no idea of the biological reason why they do that though.
pier
pier
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I did notice that only the Virginia Brightleaf and Yellow Orinoco seedlings do it (among this group at least), with the Virginia Brightleaf much more vertical. Apparently it's something called Nictynasty, not to be confused with Shadynasty, Frank Reynolds' old flame.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Note to myself and to anyone new to planting Rustica (so maybe the search engine will pick this up):
DO NOT, I say again, DO NOT over broadcast or overseed Rustica, especially on non-rich soil (i.e. with a lot of things like Perlite and vermiculite mixed in). Even on this 'rocky' soil you will get massive germination rates and generate a population that unless you cull it immediately, will far outstrip what its environment can provide, which in the case of 'rocky' soil (necessary for gnat control) is much reduced.
Even after culling the plants per pot down to three, I was noticing yellowing of the leaves, which from what I understand usually indicates poor nutrition. When I transplant the second pot of Rustica I'll take a photo, but when I removed the soil mass from the first pot in order to separate and transplant the seedlings, I found that it was just ONE GIANT ROOT MASS. There was barely any peat left in between the roots. Therefore, unlike the other species, Rustica apparently rapidly and massively overtakes and fills its soil environment, stripping the nutrients out quickly. What was originally the most thriving and successful variety/species among this group, is now the unhealthiest and endangered, due to my overplanting and not culling extensively soon enough.
So unlike the other very finnicky and delicate varieties like the Yellow Orinoco which produced only ONE viable plant among about 50 seeds I dropped in its pot, there is no reason to drop more than a few Rustica seeds on any terrain-- they will likely all survive and grow well... and promptly devour their environment!
Here is the worst one among the Rustica I transplanted, it's quite yellow. Hopefully it will recover, though my accidentally way overwatering the Solo cup is not helping.
DO NOT, I say again, DO NOT over broadcast or overseed Rustica, especially on non-rich soil (i.e. with a lot of things like Perlite and vermiculite mixed in). Even on this 'rocky' soil you will get massive germination rates and generate a population that unless you cull it immediately, will far outstrip what its environment can provide, which in the case of 'rocky' soil (necessary for gnat control) is much reduced.
Even after culling the plants per pot down to three, I was noticing yellowing of the leaves, which from what I understand usually indicates poor nutrition. When I transplant the second pot of Rustica I'll take a photo, but when I removed the soil mass from the first pot in order to separate and transplant the seedlings, I found that it was just ONE GIANT ROOT MASS. There was barely any peat left in between the roots. Therefore, unlike the other species, Rustica apparently rapidly and massively overtakes and fills its soil environment, stripping the nutrients out quickly. What was originally the most thriving and successful variety/species among this group, is now the unhealthiest and endangered, due to my overplanting and not culling extensively soon enough.
So unlike the other very finnicky and delicate varieties like the Yellow Orinoco which produced only ONE viable plant among about 50 seeds I dropped in its pot, there is no reason to drop more than a few Rustica seeds on any terrain-- they will likely all survive and grow well... and promptly devour their environment!
Here is the worst one among the Rustica I transplanted, it's quite yellow. Hopefully it will recover, though my accidentally way overwatering the Solo cup is not helping.
N. rustica seed is about two times the size of N. tabacum seed. That means that the reserve nutrition held within the seed (the "food" supply that allows it to germinate) of N. rustica is roughly the square of the supply held by N. tabacum. Live fast; die young.
Bob
Bob
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
That explains its ability to germinate almost everywhere. And makes sense that doubling the size = exponential increase in volume... 4/3 pi r^3 and all that. So like locusts it produces huge numbers which quickly use up the environment.
Two dimension: three dimensions...I was only off by 1.
Bob
Bob
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Day 33:
Have culled and transplanted everything into (mostly) Solo cups or left lone plants in the original hex pots:
The largest by far of this group are the Virginia Brightleaf which I think are really nice-looking if I may say so myself:
The Rustica are still the smallest but the newest leaves have gotten very hairy all of a sudden:
It is also Day 1 for my 4th (and likely last this year) batch:
I planted 3 cartons of seeds of things that I believe I can grow down here in Florida like Everglades Tomatoes, Mexican Gherkins, etc. And since I had space for 2 more cartons in the tray, I also a little impulsively (and probably very foolishly but what can I say, I was feeling experimental) sowed one cell of each tobacco variety and species I've accumulated so far.
They are:
1) Limonka Rustica
2) Punche (Rustica)
3) "Mountain" (Rustica)
4) Broadleaf Orinoco
5) Corojo 99
6) Connecticut Shade
7) Havanna 608
8) La Palma
9) Short Stalk Black Mammoth
10) Silkleaf
11) Connecticut Broadleaf
12) Golden Burley
13) One Sucker
14) Virginia 116
15) Shirey
16) Little Yellow
17) Burley 64
18) Virginia 12
I only sprinkled a few on each cell so am expecting there won't be any germination in some cells anyway. But in any case, I will probably be regretting this in about a month when I will have to put all of these in Solo cups. Since I barely used any seeds and have many more left over, I will cull them down to only ONE plant per species/variety. It will be interesting to compare the growth of each variety to all the others.
Have culled and transplanted everything into (mostly) Solo cups or left lone plants in the original hex pots:
The largest by far of this group are the Virginia Brightleaf which I think are really nice-looking if I may say so myself:
The Rustica are still the smallest but the newest leaves have gotten very hairy all of a sudden:
It is also Day 1 for my 4th (and likely last this year) batch:
I planted 3 cartons of seeds of things that I believe I can grow down here in Florida like Everglades Tomatoes, Mexican Gherkins, etc. And since I had space for 2 more cartons in the tray, I also a little impulsively (and probably very foolishly but what can I say, I was feeling experimental) sowed one cell of each tobacco variety and species I've accumulated so far.
They are:
1) Limonka Rustica
2) Punche (Rustica)
3) "Mountain" (Rustica)
4) Broadleaf Orinoco
5) Corojo 99
6) Connecticut Shade
7) Havanna 608
8) La Palma
9) Short Stalk Black Mammoth
10) Silkleaf
11) Connecticut Broadleaf
12) Golden Burley
13) One Sucker
14) Virginia 116
15) Shirey
16) Little Yellow
17) Burley 64
18) Virginia 12
I only sprinkled a few on each cell so am expecting there won't be any germination in some cells anyway. But in any case, I will probably be regretting this in about a month when I will have to put all of these in Solo cups. Since I barely used any seeds and have many more left over, I will cull them down to only ONE plant per species/variety. It will be interesting to compare the growth of each variety to all the others.
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