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Plantdude 2020 plant torture grow log

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plantdude

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Let me start off by saying most of what I have done this year is far from the correct way to do things. This is a good example of what not to do and offers some good examples of what plants should not look like. I started my first batch of seeds in October of 2019 and grew many many of the plants shown latter indoors under grow lights. This was done mainly with the idea of just collecting a few extra seed and to have something growing in the winter. Most of the plants were subsequently moved outdoors and into larger pots as the weather allowed. I let suckers grow since I was trying to keep only one variety flowering at a time (I've since been convinced by members on this site that I still need to bag the seed heads). Multiple batches of additional seed were started at various times and added randomly to the chaos.
It may be easier to list the mistakes
1. Lack of planning
2. Not putting in a proper garden bed
3. Growing in too much shade - cigar wrapper shade grown does not mean deep shade, some leaf shape problems resulted from this.
4. Not bagging seed heads
5. Overwatering
6. There's more but I'm already getting depressed so I'm stopping:)

A few pics of the plants grown in pots. Notice the parrot like beak shape of some of the plant leaves grown in deep shade. I'm not sure if this is a direct factor of the shade or the minor aphid infestation. image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

Plants started latter were planted pellmell wherever I could find space in the ground or in pots. The plants in the ground had no soil prep and are suffering accordingly. To be honest they went in the ground because I ran out of larger pots and got tired of picking up blown over plants every day. The cardboard covering the ground in some of the pics is poor mans weed barrier:)image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

I did try a small raised bed with mostly compost in it. I planted tobacco on each side with some potatoes down the middle. I was hoping the potatoes would attract the flea Beatles away from the tobacco (this works when I grow tomatillos and peppers together). It didn't work out so well. To much shade, plants too close together and the chickens dug everything up multiple times.image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

I started more seed of some oriental varieties Monday and they are just now germinating. I will countinue with torturing these plants for the rest of the growing season. Next year I plan on putting a proper prepped bed in the ground where sufficient light is available.
 

deluxestogie

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The cupping of upper leaves may be an indication of calcium deficiency. But the calcium deficiency is usually not because the soil lacks adequate calcium, but because the pH of the soil is outside the ideal range (5.8 to 6.2). For next season, you might want to send off a garden soil sample to your state Ag Extension Service for a soil analysis, which is free in some states, and may be as much as $20+ elsewhere. Soil testing usually provides results in 1 to 3 weeks, and can be an excellent guide for adjusting your soil pH.

Bob
 

plantdude

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I'm seeing the cupping of the upper leaves more in the potted plants grown in deep shade, it doesn't seem as bad in the plants grown in less shade to full sun. I know our soil here runs a little acidic and is high in clay. We have soil reports out at work for our area, I need to find those...
This winter I plan on extending our chicken pen, putting cardboard down, and adding a few feet of leaves for them to break down where I plan to grow next year. When spring gets closer I'm going to add a generous helping of compost and wood ash then try to grow it as a no till crop. If that fails miserably I'll try the same thing but with tilling the following year. I'm not a big tobacco user, I have a cigar every week or two so for me the fun has been more in just growing the plants and trying new things.
I had to take a picture for fun showing one of the outdoor madole potted plant leaves compared to a habano 2000 plant that has been growing indoors it whole life, there is a little size difference:)
 

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plantdude

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The cupping of upper leaves may be an indication of calcium deficiency. But the calcium deficiency is usually not because the soil lacks adequate calcium, but because the pH of the soil is outside the ideal range (5.8 to 6.2). For next season, you might want to send off a garden soil sample to your state Ag Extension Service for a soil analysis, which is free in some states, and may be as much as $20+ elsewhere. Soil testing usually provides results in 1 to 3 weeks, and can be an excellent guide for adjusting your soil pH.

Bob
I was thinking more about what you said deluxestogie and was just looking at my plants in the soil out front and notice they have a little bit of the cupping going on as well. They are getting about 3 hours of sunlight a day and filtered sunlight from some large oak trees the rest of the day. Not ideal lighting but still more than the ones growing under the silver maple out back. I know aphids will curl leaves, mites do it too (I'm not sure if tobacco gets mites but since every thing else seems too I assume they can). I'm not seeing any evidence of either on the plants out front. Seeing the same thing going on in potting soil vs the ground soil makes me think the shade and possibly too moist soil may be factors.

Sorry, ya gotta loves questions like that - "Hey, I'm growing my plants in crappy conditions what's wrong with them?" :)

I've got a few small staghorn and Florida Sumatra plants that I think I'll stick in the ground on the south side of the house. It's hot, dry and gets full sun all day over there so I'll see if they do the same thing. If nothing else this will hopefully give me a few decent sized plants by fall.
 

deluxestogie

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No aphids seen; no foul.

The more significant problem with growing tobacco in the shade of a nearby tree (extending to maybe 25% larger radius than the drip canopy) is that the tree roots suck the life out of the soil, and will usually stunt the growth of tobacco, which always has relatively shallow roots, even if the tree doesn't actually shade the tobacco.

Mites on tobacco would be a new one for me.

"I'm growing my plants in crappy conditions what's wrong with them?" The challenge that this presents is that everybody's crappy conditions are different crappy. (Su crappy no es mi crappy.) So years of experience in growing tobacco may still provide too small a data set on a particular iteration of crappy, to come up with a helpful answer. But historically, the greatest innovations don't come from the "inside" of a tradition or the "outside" of a tradition, but rather from individuals at the margins.

Bob
 

plantdude

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No aphids seen; no foul.

The more significant problem with growing tobacco in the shade of a nearby tree (extending to maybe 25% larger radius than the drip canopy) is that the tree roots suck the life out of the soil, and will usually stunt the growth of tobacco, which always has relatively shallow roots, even if the tree doesn't actually shade the tobacco.

Mites on tobacco would be a new one for me.

"I'm growing my plants in crappy conditions what's wrong with them?" The challenge that this presents is that everybody's crappy conditions are different crappy. (Su crappy no es mi crappy.) So years of experience in growing tobacco may still provide too small a data set on a particular iteration of crappy, to come up with a helpful answer. But historically, the greatest innovations don't come from the "inside" of a tradition or the "outside" of a tradition, but rather from individuals at the margins.

Bob
I'm on the margin alright:)
I have a perfect example of what you were talking about with tree roots. I have multiple large oak trees in my front yard. For years my front yard looked dry and not so happy. I would water occasionally but am nowhere near as particular about my front yard as some of the neighbors. One year the water company decided to move everyones meters from the backyard to the front yard. This involved digging a trench parallel to the road about six feet Across the entire lawn to lay new pipes. After they finished and the grass started growing back all the grass between the new pipes and street looked beautiful. They had severed all the tree roots sucking the life out of the grass. It lasted for close to a year before my yard started looking uniformly dry again.

I planted a habano 2000 (on the left) and 2 staghorns on the south side of the house. The habano will get slightly less sun since it's closer to the fence but the staghorns should be getting direct sun most of the day until about 4:15ish. The picture was taken at about 4:45. I mixed 1/3 shovelful of wet compost, with about two cups of potting soil into the existing soil. It's a nice cool 94 out so they got a big drink of water and I got a beer:) We'll see how they do for leaf cupping in a few weeks.image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg
 

plantdude

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That's not what I was taught frenching is and I certainly didn't suffer much from it:) Sorry, couldn't resist.

I'm definetly coming around about the amount of shade that is needed for cigar wrappers, I think too much shade has been one of my biggest mistakes so far for a lot of these varieties. I will admit though that I love the way that the habano 2000 leaves look and feel when I grow them in shade on the back porch. They have a wavy leaf texture and feel thin and and nice when they are dried and cured. I don't expect them to be real flavorful but I think they will make for a delicate cigar wrapper with a mild flavor. The attached picture doesn't really do it justice, you have to see and feel the plant in person to appreciate it (the plant in front of the blue chair was one of the habanos)image.jpeg

I thought I was on to a brilliant idea when I thought about fermenting/kilning my leaf in the attic. I had some up there for about 2 weeks before I noticed there are multiple posts from people like green dragon that are already doing this - and just for the record that doesn't make me less smart, than just means there are a lot of geniuses on this forum;) I'm slowly reinventing the square wheel... How is the attic fermentation method working for people that have tried it?
 

plantdude

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I found a few older pics from earlier this spring before the critters and shade began to take its toll (may 15th). The plants Looked a little nicer then.image.jpeg

I had a latter planting of a few plants of staghorn, madole, Florida Sumatra, habano 2000, Conneticut broadleaf and perique. These actually went in the ground so hopefully a handful of these will produce some decent sized plants before the end of the October. A few of them have really started taking off now that they are in the ground.
The seed I started last week (7-6-20) of Turkish basma (germ 7-10-20), shirazi (germ 7-10-20) and Henry Pryor (germ 7-13-20) are up and going. A few of these will go in large pots to be moved into the house at the end of the growing season for seed. I'll probably gamble with the rest, put them in the ground, and see what I can get before the first frost in early to mid November (going to be pushing it...). Just curious to get a taste of them since I have never tried these before.

Attaching a few pics of indoor grown plants last winter for fun... (75 watt led, supplemental 25 watt led and weak window light).image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg
 

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plantdude

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I got all excited yesterday about doing a very small trial run for sun curing a few of my florida sumatra leaves. I picked a few leaves off the plant so I could bag the seed head. Blindingly bright out, hot, not a cloud in the sky. Figure I should put the leaves on a bag so I don't lose the small ones in the grass. Finish watering my plants, take care of the critters, go inside to get a bag, come back out and it's suddenly dark and cloudy. Stayed cloudy the rest of the day... It's pretty cool if you think about it - putting a few leaves out to bring cloud cover is easier than washing the car to bring rain.
 

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I have a corner next to the back porch that is a mosquito magnet. A few years ago I tried planting an American Beautyberry (Callicarpa americana) in hopes it would help repel the mosquitoes somewhat. The leaves of American beautyberry are supposed to contain a natural insecticide. The other day I looked out the window and saw a dozen mosquitoes happily lounging on it's leaves. The plant had been looking a little sickly lately...

Does tobacco growing count as an obsession when you start ripping out existing landscaping to plant more tobacco plants?

I was bagging tobacco buds the other day and realized my bags were woefully undersized. I read deluxestoggie's agribon bag thread about how to make tobacco moo moos and figured since he has been right about everything with tobacco growing so far I would make some huge bud bags like he recomended. There I am sitting at the kitchen table happily sewing away and in walks my teenage son with three of his older friends. I look around the table and realize it has my wife's orchids in full bloom, a few flowers in vases, and me sewing what appears to be a white skirt... I tried to recover and say "Real men sew." I think there may be some therapy required with this one...
 

plantdude

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I was reading a few of the older posts about photoperiod related flowering in tobacco plants. Knucklehead pointed out one of Jessica's posts in a prior thread:

The takeway message I got from this post was the Maryland Mammoth varietiey was a short day photoperiod sensitive plant (i.e. shorter day lengths are required to induce flowering - this is also supported in the scientific literature). The thread went on to imply most tobacco varieties tend to be less dependent on photoperiod and begin flowering after they reach a specific number of leaves/growth stage.
Have there been any more recent posts on the topic of photoperiod sensitivity? Any one ever hear of photperiod sensitivity occurring in the oriental lines? In some of the old posts Bob was commenting that the days to heading in GRIN appears to be way off for some of the lines. I know other environmental factors can induce early and late flowering, but I'm also wondering if some of the discrepancies in heading date might be due to photoperiod (i.e. GRIN getting heading dates from growing in various latitudes the variety is not adapted to or perhaps taking heading date info from plants that were planted earlier or later than usual for whatever reason).

The paper below:
lists Samsun as a day neutral variety and Maryland Mammoth as a short day. My gut feeling is that varieties from equatorial regions, like many of the orientals and to some extent the cuban varieties, would proabably be less photoperiod sensitive. I would also think varieties grown in more temperate would be more likely to have some degree of photoperiod sensitivity. Maryland Mammoth may have been the result of a spontaneous mutation (as far as I know that is unknown and the gene has not been identified), but I would not be surprised if there were some photoperiod sensitive genes lurking around in some of the more temperate varieties out there that may have contributed to Maryland Mammoth's photoperiod sensitivity.

So does anyone have thoughts on photoperiod sensitivty or observations from what they have grown? It sounds like identifying some of these genes could be a good way to improve yield.
 

plantdude

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I'm down to my cheap Victor Sinclair box pressed double Maduros that have been sitting in my humidor for a year and a half. They haven't got any better with age. They inspired me to roll my first ugly cigar. Conneticut wrapper grown in the shade, perique (plain plant leaf not processed perique) as a binder. For filler middle, lower and upper leaves of habano 2000, staghorn, and some mystery lab strain tobacco.
I watched @deluxestogie video on how to roll a cigar after I rolled mine so I could figure out what I did wrong. In hindsight maybe I should've watched the video first:) Ehh, first attempt. Maybe by next weekend when I'm faced with the option of mine or another cheap cigar I'll be brave enough to give mine a go...
 

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plantdude

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10 day post germination for basma
image.jpeg
And shirazi
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Roughly 7 day post germination for much smaller and slower Hickory Pryor seedlings
image.jpeg

Plants are placed in humid 90+ temps outdoors during the day in shade and get about 1.5 hours of semi filtered late afternoon direct sun. In the evenings they are brought into the 78 degree much dryer indoors and placed under grow lights for 4-5 hours.

This is my first time growing orientals if anyone has some advice or oriental varieties they would like to recommended growing I would love to hear about them.
 
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