Whole Leaf Tobacco

Rajangan - Srinthil & other grades & types

agil wintoko

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
15
Points
13
Location
indonesia
Moderator note: This discussion was moved from another thread in which it was off topic. - China Voodoo

I had the same questions when I begun growing my own. It's difficult to find some exhaustive list of varieties with their flavor/taste profile. So it's hard to know which strains to begin with.

One short answer would be : try a few different strains. Each one has something unique and some are very different from one to another (even in the same "type", such as "bright leaf" for example).

From my little experience, I can say that the resulting tobacco depends on the climate / soil / watering / fertilization / light / year / cultivation methods / ripeness at harvest time / curing methods / kilning.....
That's why I often try new strains to see what they give in MY garden.

P.S. I have not tried to flue cure my virginia yet (I air/sun/rajangan cure it), so I can't help you on this point.
charly if you want to proceced rajangan with sun cured
I advise you to try a variety from Indonesia called Kemloko is variety can be srinthil (has 3 sub varieties Kemloko 1,2 and 3). although it not popular because has a small productivity and is prone to disease,
but the quality of kemloko is the best among other rajangan varieties.
based on my experience the positive points of the kemloko when planted on the same land as other varieties is
1. the color is nicer
2. very fast growth
3. grow well in dry conditions
4. better combustion
5. richer aroma
6. sweeter taste

if you interest I invite you to discuse about rajangan tobacco
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tobaccomy

Active Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
38
Points
8
Location
Malaysia
charly if you want to proceced rajangan with sun cured
I advise you to try a variety from Indonesia called Kemloko is variety can be srinthil (has 3 sub varieties Kemloko 1,2 and 3). although it not popular because has a small productivity and is prone to disease,
but the quality of kemloko is the best among other rajangan varieties.
based on my experience the positive points of the kemloko when planted on the same land as other varieties is
1. the color is nicer
2. very fast growth
3. grow well in dry conditions
4. better combustion
5. richer aroma
6. sweeter taste

if you interest I invite you to discuse about rajangan tobacco
Hey bro, so how is srintil made ? Top leaves and fermented ?
 

agil wintoko

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
15
Points
13
Location
indonesia
for Srinthil need special conditions such as:
1. extreme dry season (from topping to picking not rain)
2. can only be produced from mountain land whose slopes face east of the rising sun.
3. type of soil is sandy and gravel.
4. planting height above 1400 masl
5. basic fertilization need using cow fertilizer 1 plant up to 1 kg.(do not use chicken or bird manure)
6. only variety kemloko

which can be srintil usually only top leaf, picked waiting for the full yellow ripe.

when the leaves are fermented for 8-11 days, the leaves turn half black as they melt, but do not rot the aroma is fragrant and sweet.

after fermenting the leaves to be rajang and then dried in the sun to dry

when smoke the taste of Srintil is very very strong. . can make full stomach in one suck and have effect on head.
 

ChinaVoodoo

Moderator
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
4,325
Points
113
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
for Srinthil need special conditions such as:
1. extreme dry season (from topping to picking not rain)
If the weather is unusual, is the crop ruined and called something else?

I'm interested in trying this tobacco. I am a fan of South East Asian tobacco, but how much of this description is mystification in order to make people believe there's magic in all of these parameters?

Like 1400 masl? Why not 1300 masl, but 5° further north?
 

agil wintoko

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
15
Points
13
Location
indonesia
If the weather is unusual, is the crop ruined and called something else?

I'm interested in trying this tobacco. I am a fan of South East Asian tobacco, but how much of this description is mystification in order to make people believe there's magic in all of these parameters?

Like 1400 masl? Why not 1300 masl, but 5° further north?








if you interest to trying srinthil i can give you free.

basically Srintil is chopped tobacco that is forced to over ferment in order to get a distinctive aroma and taste.
not all leaves can be over fermented. leaves that can become srinthil certainly have high levels of nicotine.
although geographic factors are very influential, to get a leaf like that is also influenced by various technical factors. such as fertilizing, topping with less leaves, wider plant spacing, as much possible the land always clean from weeds, picking wait until the leaves are really mature.
the planting method that we do is not popular, even farmers in other regions in Indonesia rarely want to try it, because besides its low productivity, the selected varieties are susceptible to disease
when it approaches harvesting it rains and the soil is still wet the leaves are only fermented to yellow (this cannot be called srinthil), if forced fermentation to black the results will be bad.
 

ChinaVoodoo

Moderator
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
4,325
Points
113
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
when it approaches harvesting it rains and the soil is still wet the leaves are only fermented to yellow (this cannot be called srinthil), if forced fermentation to black the results will be bad.
What color does it cure to if it doesn't rain before harvest? the tobacco cures brown?
And if it does rain, it cures yellow?
Is the rain accompanied by cooler temperatures?
Is it also raining while curing, and does the curing take a longer or shorter amount of time because of humidity differences?

When you say it will be bad, do you mean it will not have the qualities of srinthil but still be somewhat enjoyable, or will it actually be nasty in some way?
 

agil wintoko

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
15
Points
13
Location
indonesia
What color does it cure to if it doesn't rain before harvest? the tobacco cures brown?
And if it does rain, it cures yellow?
Is the rain accompanied by cooler temperatures?
Is it also raining while curing, and does the curing take a longer or shorter amount of time because of humidity differences?

When you say it will be bad, do you mean it will not have the qualities of srinthil but still be somewhat enjoyable, or will it actually be nasty in some way?
at here if rain is not followed by extreme cold temperatures.

if at curing rain and the tobacco cannot perfect dry in one day it will reduce the quality.

for Srinthil we repeat curing up to 4 times. but for the first day curing the tobacco must be completely dry, so that the quality and color of the tobacco can be good.

when it doesn't rain before harvesting the leaves are able over fermented to black (srinthil). dry leaves have a sticky and oily black color.

and if it rains before harvest, it better to fermented the leaves to yellow and when dry the color remains yellow. because when forced to over ferment the result is Srinthil fails. the dry color is dullbrown and the aroma is not like srinthil, in we opinion it is not good. although worthy of smoke, but the taste becomes a little bitter.

You can see the different color in the photo
IMAG0062~3.jpg
 

agil wintoko

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
15
Points
13
Location
indonesia
thank you mr voodoo.
I apologize that my English is so bad

maybe this discussion can be discuss about all rajangan tobacco.

basically Srinthil is tobacco rajangan in high-grade level.

in Indonesia tobacco rajangan is grouped into 8 grades from grade A B C D E F G and H, srinthil is in the EFGH grade but for grade G and H it is very very rarely to found.

for determining grade and quality be measured by sense from the color, thickness of the leaf, elasticity, and aroma.
 

ChinaVoodoo

Moderator
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
4,325
Points
113
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
@agil wintoko
I have sun cured maesan samporis and kasturi as whole leaf. It was snowing and very cloudy at harvest time so I couldn't make rajangan with it.

It fermented quite dark, here is a photo of my Kasturi. How different would this same tobacco taste if it was rajangan?
DSC_0903~2.JPG
 

agil wintoko

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
15
Points
13
Location
indonesia
@agil wintoko
I have sun cured maesan samporis and kasturi as whole leaf. It was snowing and very cloudy at harvest time so I couldn't make rajangan with it.

It fermented quite dark, here is a photo of my Kasturi. How different would this same tobacco taste if it was rajangan?
View attachment 29626
actually I dont really understand about whole leaf tobacco.

but from my experience with the same leaves, if it make rajangan with a good process, specifically used for cigarete, the taste will be sweeter and have the more strengh nicotin. maybe that's why rajangan tobacco in Indonesia costs more than whole leaves, besides the more complicated process.

there are other ways if you want to make rajangan tobacco but the weather does not allow for cured.

in Indonesia at the mountains called Dieng, tobacco planted above an altitude of up 2000 masl, although in the tropics the temperature there can drop to -4 celsius, there rarely bright sun and alwasy foggy. so the people there process tobacco leaves by rajangan and then cured in the oven, named tobacco garangan.
 

Charly

Moderator
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
1,797
Points
113
Location
France
Very interesting discussion.

@agil wintoko : thank you for the pictures and explanations, but I am not sure I did fully understand the "curing" method used.
You said to make srinthil :
- you harvest the leaves when they are really yellow,
- you ferment them for 8 to 11 days (I suppose you put them in pile for the 8-11 days ?)
- you cut them
- you put them in full sun to dry in one day.

I am right ?
Thanks
 

agil wintoko

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
15
Points
13
Location
indonesia
Very interesting discussion.

@agil wintoko : thank you for the pictures and explanations, but I am not sure I did fully understand the "curing" method used.
You said to make srinthil :
- you harvest the leaves when they are really yellow,
- you ferment them for 8 to 11 days (I suppose you put them in pile for the 8-11 days ?)
- you cut them
- you put them in full sun to dry in one day.

I am right ?
Thanks
yes, you are right.

I mean the fermented is to pile the leaves after harvest in one space.

a sign that the leaf can become srinthil, can be seen at fermented the leaf begins to melt (looks like it's rotten but smells good) followed by yellow mold.IMG-20200215-WA0002~2.jpg
 

ChinaVoodoo

Moderator
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
4,325
Points
113
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
Ohhhh, ok. I misunderstood.

I think some of our questions are related to the terms that we are used to. Generally, when we say fermentation, we are referring to after it is cured (and dried). You know, like what they do with cigar leaf, making piles after it has been cured.

What you have in the previous photo is basically what we call 'piling' fresh leaf, or 'wilting'.

So the yellow mold gets thrown out? But it is also an indicator of quality because it only grows on stronger tobacco?
 

agil wintoko

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
15
Points
13
Location
indonesia
yes it is one of indicator that tobacco is stronger. when the yellow mold get, we dare to pilling leaf to longer until the color turn brownish black (we called it black fermentation/over fermentation).
then we cut it, then we quickly cured in the sun.
images (2).jpeg
 

Charly

Moderator
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
1,797
Points
113
Location
France
I often use the pile method to help leaves to become well yellow. Sometimes, when I let the leaves in piles for too long they turn black.
If it is some lower/middle leaves, it molds and rot very quickly.
BUT with some stronger leaves (the top leaves of some strains), the leaves don't mold as easily. I have already thought that it was the nicotine concentration that prevents mold.
This would explains why srinthil only works with strong leaves.

This year I will try to make some "srinthil style" with some leaves that I will let turn black intentionally ;)
Thanks for your explanations.
 
Top