Whole Leaf Tobacco

Red Virginia

Bex

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I wish you were my neighbor....:)


Brown Thumb, I just posted elsewhere about this, but maybe you can offer some advice, as well - when you are talking about getting as much green out as you can during wilting - my practice run is being done on some fairly immature leaf - and I'm about 65 hours into yellowing. The lamina still has a slight green hue to it, and I was going to continue on until this had disappeared. But you are talking about removing green during wilting....I've seen the photos of overyellowing during the yellowing stage, and bumping up to wilting when the veins and midrib still have substantial green to them. But do you wait for the lamina to be completely yellow? Or go to wilting, and try to get the rest of the green out at that stage?
Since it is obviously possible, my goal is to produce Red Virginia, which I find pretty much smokable on its own....
Edit: and considering the beauty of your Red Virginia, I wish you were my neighbor, too....;)
 

Brown Thumb

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Go into wilting, more green will come out. You can hold it there if you can keep your rh up to 55 if you need to get more green out. That maybe a problem for you tho. I have no experience in what you guys can or cannot do with the crockpot method.
I can pretty much control every element of my cure. Except perfection.
The veins and stem will stay green until leaf drying and stem Kill and come out of the chamber green sometimes.
 

Bex

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I can pretty much control every element of my cure. Except perfection.
How do you control your humidity levels? Just through venting/temps?? For example, you go into wilting and want to drop your humidity from say, 95% to 55%, but it stops decreasing at 80% - so you just open your vent to get out the additional moisture, and just watch it until you get to the level you want, and then shut the vent? (Or you have automatic vents that open and close dependent on the humidity?? :eek: )
 

Brown Thumb

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My kiln is controlled by a fan and vent working together to pull out moisture when the controller tells it to.
For rh up I have a sauna steamer that comes on when the controller tells it to. Almost fully auto except I have to program the controller for each step on the rh side. I have a controller being made to do that but It has not arrived yet
Bummed out, I wanted to try it out this year. Go back into my chamber log it might make some sense?
 

Bex

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Yes, I will have to read it again - I probably skimmed over all the automation, as it was totally beyond my comprehension first time around....:)
 

Bex

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Of course he is. A doctor of Nicotiana and Tobacciana - an NTD. Their motto is no leaf left behind.....
 

CT Tobaccoman

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Excellent! I'll be interested in your result - I have read about scorching of tobacco leaves - bringing the temp up past 175F or so apparently does this - and it gives the leaf a reddish hue. I just wonder if this is actually what red virginia is - but can't find any info on this. I would love to give virginia a bit of a bite, so that, at least for me, it can be a standalone smoke....
My understanding is that "Flue cured Virginia" is a tobacco varietal that may have many different seeds created to improve the plant's resistance to disease, etc, but that VA brightleaf is all basically the same plant, wherever it is grown and whatever it is called.

Since it is primed and not stalk cut the lower leaves will be milder and paler yellow while the upper leaves will be stronger and cure darker. So, I think that pale Canadian looking leaf, darker yellow orange leaf and "red" leaf can all come from the same plant. Commercially, probably different types of VA Bright are grown specifically because they produce the best of one of these color/strength types. I could be wrong--deluxestogie would know for certain.

For my taste, the only kind of VA flue cured that can stand alone is the VA Red that I got from WLT. Paler Virginia doesn't have enough taste to be smoked alone. I use a mixture of VA Bright that is mostly "Red" for over half of my cigarette blend. The rest is burley, Maryland and oriental. Burley can be smoked alone but it is very strong. Maryland and oriental are like sucking air through a straw and tasting little, except there is that kick in the back of the throat. Oriental and Maryland are not essential and are often not found these days in commercial cigarettes. Virginia and burley are always used commercially.

If you are looking for a stand alone cigarette tobacco it would have to be VA flue cured, IMHO. You could use lower leaves to mellow the strength of the upper leaves. Some burley and/or Turkish helps complete the flavor--Maryland is not really necessary--but VA Red can stand alone and I don't think that any other cigarette tobacco can. I understand that in UK dominated countries there are a lot of restrictions about what you can import. A simple blend for these limitations would be to grow a quarter or less the amount of burley as Virginia.

Can U receive tobacco as a gift? I have a lot of Maryland and 24 big plants of Maryland growing now, so I have enough Maryland for a lifetime (at least the rest of my lifetime) so I'd be glad to send U some. A small amount of it is used in traditional cigarette blends. It has little taste but it provides that "kick" in the back of the throat that Virginia can lack.

CT
 

deluxestogie

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My understanding is that "Flue cured Virginia" is a tobacco varietal that may have many different seeds created to improve the plant's resistance to disease, etc, but that VA brightleaf is all basically the same plant, wherever it is grown and whatever it is called.
Having grown quite a list of different flue-cure varietals myself, I can assure you that they are not the same. GRIN lists 382 different flue-cure accessions. Some are similar, but each of those that I have grown differed in leaf morphology, stalk height, leaf number, days to maturity, etc., and tasted different after curing.

Bob

EDIT: "Virginia Bright Leaf" is a specific varietal name.
 

Brown Thumb

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I have a perfect example Bob, Some of the last batch out of the Chamber and shredded,
The red is frog eye. The yellow is hickory prior. Pretty much the same stalk positions and leaf ripeness when harvested.
image.jpg
 

CT Tobaccoman

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Having grown quite a list of different flue-cure varietals myself, I can assure you that they are not the same. GRIN lists 382 different flue-cure accessions. Some are similar, but each of those that I have grown differed in leaf morphology, stalk height, leaf number, days to maturity, etc., and tasted different after curing.

Bob

EDIT: "Virginia Bright Leaf" is a specific varietal name.
I see. There is more to this than I thought. Yet, you are getting "red" from your top primings? I wonder is there is a specific flue cured varietal that is amenable to yielding progressively darker leaves according to priming. I could probably find out this, but what seed did you use to get your "red" tops and lighter lowers? Or maybe better still, what seed produced WLT's VA Red.

CT

EDIT: I guess what I am really asking is, what flue cured Virginia type seed would you recommend that I grow next year, that might give me lighter and darker from the same plant, assuming I figure out a way to properly cure them by then?
 

Bex

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That's beautiful flue-cured shred. And a lot of it. If Bex happens to stop by, let her have a pinch of the Frog Eye.

Bob
Pluck yer magic twanger, Froggie....I've never heard of Frog Eye, but it looks beautiful. What about the taste? Is it a bit of a stronger smoke than....geesh, I was going to say a 'normal' Virginia, but is there such a thing? So many different types of Virginia?...when I get off the internet, and I order Red Virginia, am I getting...Frog Eye? Is the yellow leaf I get Hickory prior? Eck....
 

Brown Thumb

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Thank You Guys. Just remember it is all yours fault. ;)
Funny you should ask Bex. I was curious myself about Dons Red Leaf myself and pulled a pound off the top shelf and ran it thru the shredder to see how close mine was. Just a little darker, also had a lot of big leaves which makes me think it is not just the upper primings. I smelled mine then Dons. Then I sniffed all my bags and none smelled like his. Mine smells fruity per say, His smells almost like a burly, it might be a ammonia smell. My sniffer is shot also. I am going to let it air out a day or so then sniff again then roll and try them all out.
Little pile is Dons.
image.jpg
 

deluxestogie

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Every plant, every leaf, every variety--each adds another variable, not to mention differing soil conditions and seasonal weather variations.

Frog Eye's full name is Frog Eye Orinoco. Most (if not all) flue-cure varieties are derived from Orinoco (that would be the same Orinoco as the river in Venezuela). I seem to recall that John Rolfe introduced Orinoco into the Virginia colony. (Don't know how he laid his hands on it.)

I've grown Hickory Prior, Virginia Bright Leaf, Paris Wrapper (a flue-cure variety, not a cigar variety), Big Gem, Yellow Orinoco, White Stem Orinoco, and Silk Leaf. Of those, I've flue-cured VA Bright Leaf and Big Gem. For me, in my location, with my soil and my weather, the VA Bright Leaf has done the best, so that's what I grow. My only use for flue-cured leaf is in pipe blending.

New Hope Seed has a nice section on flue-cure varieties (with pics): http://www.newhopeseed.com/flue_cured_tobacco.html

Bob

EDIT: Sorry about your small pile, Don.
 

Brown Thumb

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I have to agree with Bob, The Bright Leaf is one of my best producers this yr. and is easy to flue cure.
So was Hickory Prior a great producer but not as easy to flue cure.
 
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