Whole Leaf Tobacco

Saving lost season (harvesting and drying late)

Libor

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Check these images against what you are seeing. It’s hard for me to tell. If it is blue mold you can cut a stalk and look for a darkened area of tissue.



It seems to be not exactly the same thing, although there was something brown inside the stem of the only plant I harvested (I will look more cautiously this afternoon). It could be something similar...
 

Knucklehead

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Wire worms tunnel up in the stalk from the ground. Here’s a photo of what the inside of the stalk looks like.

 

Libor

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Wire worms tunnel up in the stalk from the ground. Here’s a photo of what the inside of the stalk looks like.

Thanks, I will look more closely and may be take some more detailed pictures.
 

deluxestogie

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I'm not aware of any particular disease resistance in Shirey. With some diseases, rotation away from solanaceous plants for two to three years minimizes the issue. With others, the organisms persist in the soil indefinitely. Weather conditions certainly can make a big difference in susceptibility to many tobacco diseases.

Bob
 

Libor

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I'm not aware of any particular disease resistance in Shirey. With some diseases, rotation away from solanaceous plants for two to three years minimizes the issue. With others, the organisms persist in the soil indefinitely. Weather conditions certainly can make a big difference in susceptibility to many tobacco diseases.

Bob
Yes, it is strange with shirey. As for as rotation, I can never do it properly as I grow some tomatoes, potatoes, chillies and the garden is not large enough. By the way tomatoes were damaged badly this season. In other seasons, when the disease affects the harvest of secondary tobacco plants (are you calling it suckers?), I don't care so much...
I will take, what is good for air drying and smaller non matured leafs for smoking chamber, those are still good for fire curing as I put just some 10% of it to my mixture and I don't expect any taste than the smell of smoke.

Bob, you will surely know this. What is the relation between the taste of slowly air dried vs. quickly air dried leafs? What will be closer to dark (zware) or French brune back in 90s?
I started drying inside the house in the room with fireplace but then I was afraid, that the process runs too quickly (25C or 77F and about 50 or 55 % rH), so I moved the leafs to the barn, where there is 41 to 50 F at night and 50 to 60 F during the day, rH changes with weather and daytime, there is the fan running all the time. I plan to move the leafs back into the house as soon as they are brown for stem drying.
 

Libor

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I don't have a comparison for taste. Slower air-curing with greater ambient moisture results in a darker colored leaf. I am not familiar with the taste of zware or French brune.
Thank you for reply. If I have anything to put into the kiln this year,
I wonder if @Alpine and @Charly are the members who can report knowledge of those tobaccos.

I was hoping that there exists some simple rule like " long drying/ darker color/harsh taste" or " shorter drying process/ milder or sweeter taste" or "there will be no significant difference, everything important happens during kilning or fermenting".
Brand is not important, it was just an example, I want the tobacco to be a bit harsh in throat.
May be I am ahead of myself, I will be happy if I have any brown dry leafs this year.
 

Libor

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I don't have a comparison for taste. Slower air-curing with greater ambient moisture results in a darker colored leaf. I am not familiar with the taste of zware or French brune.

Bob
Sorry, it was not an intelligent question. Thank you for reply.
I wouldn't be able to describe the taste of zware or dark rolling tobacco even in my language, so many brands - usually dark air cured and fire cured Kentucky, may be burley... By dark French I ment Galouises or Gitanes.
 

Alpine

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The old Gauloises caporal and Gitanes were made of mostly “tabac brun” but are no longer manufactured. Some seeds for such strains may be available in France (probably from around Bergerac). Ducados cigarettes in Spain are still manufactured and are made with “tabaco negro” and taste quite like the old Gitanes.
“Zware” means “heavy” or “bold” in Dutch and zware blends contain mostly burley and fire cured tobacco, while the “halfzware” blends have a little flue cured in the mix. As far as I know, no orientals are present.
Northwoodseeds.com has a nice selection of dark tobaccos, and @polygon55 has seeds for dark strains too.
Unfortunately, at the moment, northwoodseeds doesn’t ship seeds outside US for the notorious Covid-related problems.
Maybe next spring...
Wait for @Charly to chime in, he can surely go deeper than me on the topic of dark French cigs (alas, long gone) and related tobaccos.

pier
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Libor

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The old Gauloises caporal and Gitanes were made of mostly “tabac brun” but are no longer manufactured. Some seeds for such strains may be available in France (probably from around Bergerac). Ducados cigarettes in Spain are still manufactured and are made with “tabaco negro” and taste quite like the old Gitanes.
“Zware” means “heavy” or “bold” in Dutch and zware blends contain mostly burley and fire cured tobacco, while the “halfzware” blends have a little flue cured in the mix. As far as I know, no orientals are present.
Northwoodseeds.com has a nice selection of dark tobaccos, and @polygon55 has seeds for dark strains too.
Unfortunately, at the moment, northwoodseeds doesn’t ship seeds outside US for the notorious Covid-related problems.
Maybe next spring...
Wait for @Charly to chime in, he can surely go deeper than me on the topic of dark French cigs (alas, long gone) and related tobaccos.

pier

Thank you for reply. My friend brought me a pack of Galouises not long time ago, it was not what I remember from France, "made in Hamburg" was written on the pack. I remember Caporal tobacco sold in paper pack of cubic shape. I know there is another thread on this website where ingredients of Gitanes and Galouises are discussed, that was the first thing I looked for on the website.
I bought some seeds of "tabaco negro" here, hope it is the same thing. I can't wait to try it next spring. I don't want to experiment too much, one strain a year is enough. At the beginning I was growing Bolivian Criollo, Virginia 312 (if I remember the number correctly), another kind of dark Virginia that I forgot and Goose Creek, I decided to keep GCR, later I found Adonis. If the "tabaco negro" I recently bought is really a Ducados thing, I will be ok, as I can balance with it low nicotine content of Adonis.
Thank you for the link, no problem with seeds, there is a man in Czech Rep. that has more strains than I can try. These are dark varieties he offers.
With Zware it is difficult, they will write something like "mixture of 14 quality tobaccos" and only thing I could smell in it, is fire cured.
 

Libor

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This is the website for the seeds of @polygon55
Thanks for the link, how happy I am that I had 8 years of Russian in communist school. I thought I will never use it. It will take some time to go through it.
 

Libor

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Thanks for the link, how happy I am that I had 8 years of Russian in communist school. I thought I will never use it. It will take some time to go through it.
They have many interesting varieties there. The only dark air cured, that I cannot buy in my country, are Pereg and BAdisher Geudertheimer. I bookmarked the website. Thanks a lot, good source.
 

Charly

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Wait for @Charly to chime in, he can surely go deeper than me on the topic of dark French cigs (alas, long gone) and related tobaccos.
I have not smoked a lot of the old french cigarettes (like Gauloise or Gitane), but as Pier said, they were made with "tabac brun".
In France, most people always talk about two main kinds of cigarettes : "tabac brun" or "tabac blond" (yes, our classification is simple :D)
"tabac brun" is air cured tobacco, probably dark air cured tobacco (in France we grew some strange strains : "Paraguay", "Dragon-Vert", and Burley for cigarettes).
"tabac blond" is the traditionnal US cigarette with flue cured tobacco.

I don't have much informations about the specific strains Paraguay and Dragon-Vert. It could be interesting to find their origin.

So if you want to make your own "french cigarettes", try some dark air cured tobacco and burley.
 

deluxestogie

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specific strains Paraguay and Dragon-Vert. It could be interesting to find their origin.
I'm going to take a truly wild guess here. Paraguay Flojo, Bolivia Criollo Black, and Venezuelan Guacharo all seem to be very similar strains of long, dark, strong tobacco.

Bob
 

Libor

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I'm going to take a truly wild guess here. Paraguay Flojo, Bolivia Criollo Black, and Venezuelan Guacharo all seem to be very similar strains of long, dark, strong tobacco.

Bob
Just yesterday I was searching for tobacco seeds in the freezer and I found some Bolivian Criollo from 2012 and an old Brown Leaf seeds beside other interesting seeds and I thought I will try, if at least some would grow next spring. I grown Bolivian Criollo in first or second growing season and it dried into light brown. I don't remember, what went wrong. Season after season I say to myself: this year I will do it better.... It is the same with Brown Leaf, it is fire cured I guess, at time I was growing it, I was not using smoking chamber. Instead of hanging in my smoking chamber pre matured leafs of Adonis, that would otherwise be consumed by disease, I should do the same with Brown Leaf next year.
I have not smoked a lot of the old french cigarettes (like Gauloise or Gitane), but as Pier said, they were made with "tabac brun".
In France, most people always talk about two main kinds of cigarettes : "tabac brun" or "tabac blond" (yes, our classification is simple :D)
"tabac brun" is air cured tobacco, probably dark air cured tobacco (in France we grew some strange strains : "Paraguay", "Dragon-Vert", and Burley for cigarettes).
"tabac blond" is the traditionnal US cigarette with flue cured tobacco.

I don't have much informations about the specific strains Paraguay and Dragon-Vert. It could be interesting to find their origin.

So if you want to make your own "french cigarettes", try some dark air cured tobacco and burley.
Thanks for reply, yes, blond and brun is sufficient, the others are possibly over-classifying it. For example I never understood why to divide tobacco plant into five different qualities of the leaf when Low, middle and top seem enough. Don't think I am a French tobacco fanatic, i am satisfied with any dark rolling tobacco. With me it is not problem of variety but of processing tobacco, If I learn how to do it well, I can make good rolling mixture with varieties I have (Adonis, Gooose Creek Red, Tabaco Negro, some fire cured and oriental to make the taste more interesting). Yesterday i mixed 10g of GCR low leafs, 20g of GCR mid Leafs, 10g of Adonis mid leafs, 20g of Balikesir top leafs and 10g of my fire cured, the result is smokable.
I see that you are from Italy, I was collecting lighters, Italian Saffa lighters from 30s were one of my favourites. I have three from this manufacturer, Classic lift arm, smaller version for ladies and Saffa Aksum with wind shield, nice work.
 

polygon55

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Hi!
I haven't revised the site this year yet. I will add new varieties soon.

Bolivian Black is the common name for five varieties: Americano Extranjero, Palo Amarillo, Paraguayo 112, Paraguayo M1 and Rifarachi.
We all grow the one of this varieties, but I don't know which of the five. I sent this seeds to Northwoodseeds.com in 2012.

In 2018, I got all five varieties from Bolivia, but all these years the seeds have not sprouted. Unfortunately, the company that provided me with these seeds is no longer there.

This year I donated part of the seeds to the Academy of Agricultural Sciences in Transcarpathia. They reported that they managed to germinate several bushes of two varieties out of five. I don't know yet what varieties they saved, but I'm waiting for the seeds.
 
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