Senate democrats go after tobacco tax loophole to increase revenue

[FmGrowit]

This is the link to the story.

The actual wording of the bill is not available yet

From the Library of Congress
The text of S.194 has not yet been received from GPO
Bills are generally sent to the Library of Congress from the Government Printing Office a day or two after they are introduced on the floor of the House or Senate. Delays can occur when there are a large number of bills to prepare or when a very large bill has to be printed.

I'll post the wording when it becomes available.

In the meantime, hopefully nobody will call these guys and ask if whole leaf is somehow going to be included in the new law. We don't need to be giving them any ideas.

 

[darren1979]

What do you think the chances are of that bill being passed Don?

 

[AmaxB]

This is coming
But I donot think many people will quit because of it, that claim and the claim concerning the young is political crap. It will I think affect some but not in mass, if people want to do it they will no different than dope.
It is really about the money they could care if you smoke. Got to love Obama Care 700.00 fine... same shit.

Next they will claim growing in the yard will influence kids cause they see the plant never mind if they know what it is,,,,.

 

[Chicken]

i was looking, i was looking,,,,i was looking,

and there it was a reference to ones '' health''

the government is full of crap, and making us less of a free nation daily,

the pot is boiling, you can smell it in the air, freedom, minded people are standing up to '' big government''

 

[FmGrowit]

What do you think the chances are of that bill being passed Don?

There is no doubt this law will pass. It might not pass as it is written now, but some form of this law WILL pass. It's really has nothing to do with politics since the Republicans are just as responsible for big government as the Democrats. The law is about "revenue" as the title states. The rhetoric used to be "health" or "prevention", but they are coming right out now and telling the truth...it's about revenue.

The funny thing about their numbers is...they're wrong. From 2008 to 2011, 450 million pounds of "pipe" tobacco has been sold. The tax rate on pipe tobacco is about $2 lb. The tax rate on ryo cigarette tobacco is about $25 lb., so that's over 3 billion a year in "lost" revenue.

About a month ago, I spoke with the owner of RYO Magazine and he is convinced the TTB will not try to regular whole leaf.

The whole article really rubs me the wrong way though. The law is the law. How is it a "loop hole" if the law makes accommodations for the loop hole? It's kind of like making the drinking age 21 years old and then telling 21 year old adults they are taking advantage of a loop hole if they drink on their 21st birthday. The current law clearly states :tobacco labeled as pipe tobacco will not be subject to the tax increase. How is this taking advantage of a loop hole?

 

[Chicken]

i also think it will get passed, it puts money in thier coffer's.

and all bacca products that most of the r.y.o. crowd uses, that buy's it is labeled as '' pipe tobacco''

it's a clear sign the gov. is starting to realize the revenue they are losing by people making thier own cigg's and are now going after that crowd,

people go that route to save a little bit of money vs. a pack of smokes, .....but if that bag of loose bacca gets too high, then what will they do?


become wise as we have, and totally take thierselves off the grid and start growing,?

or do what some do, and start buying the '' cigarillo's'' 1 buck a pack, [ but damn thier nasty ]

..............................................................

or it could be another move to shut down the discount cigg' shops, that makes the cigg's on the grounds you just pick out the blend,

if thier tubs of bacca price shoot thru the roof, and thier profit margine is cut way down

then they too will disappear???????

 

[SmokesAhoy]

I don't think most people will grow their own. Many can't, many won't. That will place whole leaf in the spotlight, especially if we bail down varieties that don't require a kiln. The easier anything is the more it is adapted by the general public. Might be a lot of money in those varieties before too long

 

[Chicken]

i think if the price goes to a certain point,,, people will out of nessesity. look for a cheaper alternative,

if it was feesible to make your own gas out of corn whiskeystiil's, im sure you see more of them in backyards,

there, is allready people who take, diesel engines and convert them to burn used vegabale oil.

................................................................................

people are strange,

 

[bosun]

Usual government shooting itself in the foot. Raise the tax on tobac excessively. Tobacco addicts start acting like the crack heads..robberies, prostitution, no health insurance. Organized crime moves in (think Prohibition and Al Capone). More tax dollars needed for law enforcement. Tax revenues go down. The government already spent the extra expected tax dollars from the tax increase. The poor are forced to quit. Live longer. Collect Social Security longer. SS goes broke faster. People instead of dying of something medically cheap such as lung cancer now need heart and kidney transplants, payed by SS. More older people means more older people in nursing homes, payed by SS. Who's cynical?

 

[johnlee1933]

Usual government shooting itself in the foot. Raise the tax on tobac excessively. Tobacco addicts start acting like the crack heads..robberies, prostitution, no health insurance. Organized crime moves in (think Prohibition and Al Capone). More tax dollars needed for law enforcement. Tax revenues go down. The government already spent the extra expected tax dollars from the tax increase. The poor are forced to quit. Live longer. Collect Social Security longer. SS goes broke faster. People instead of dying of something medically cheap such as lung cancer now need heart and kidney transplants, payed by SS. More older people means more older people in nursing homes, payed by SS. Who's cynical?

Not you Bosun. Just the facts man. Ever notice my signature? -·- John

 

[bosun]

Luckily I have these forums to vent my cynicism in! When I worked, and would discuss such things at (smoke) break, people couldn't follow my logic, or that in reality one brand of politician was different than the other..
On a side note, place I grew up in NY was just across the border from you..north of Brewste!

 

[johnlee1933]

Luckily I have these forums to vent my cynicism in! When I worked, and would discuss such things at (smoke) break, people couldn't follow my logic, or that in reality one brand of politician was different than the other..
On a side note, place I grew up in NY was just across the border from you..north of Brewste!

I grew up in Croton-on-Hudson. Perhaps we played ball against each other.

 

[smokesec]

I'm going to disagree with Don - I don't think this bill will pass. Similar legislation has been introduced for the past several years and always dies in Committee. It's too broad. "Traditional" pipe tobacco and cigar manufacturers would be destroyed by a bill like this.

Traditional Pipe Tobacco (Captain Black, Half & Half, etc) is entirely different from the mislabeled "pipe tobacco" that is currently being used as RYO tobacco. The TTB is aware of this and has had 2 public comment periods on how to differentiate traditional pipe tobacco from "ryo type" pipe tobacco. They have received some excellent responses from leaders in the industry - based on things like moisture content, sugar content, flavorings, etc. (http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;D=TTB-2010-0004)

It is my understanding that because the TTB is looking at a reclassification rather than a new tax, they won't need Congressional approval. They simply set a standard for what qualifies as "pipe tobacco", and the rest falls under Roll Your Own and will be taxed as such since those tax rates already exist. This would close a major loophole without getting Congress involved at all.

One thing that continues to boggle my mind is why they haven't done it already...

 

[AmaxB]

I'm going to disagree with Don - I don't think this bill will pass. Similar legislation has been introduced for the past several years and always dies in Committee. It's too broad. "Traditional" pipe tobacco and cigar manufacturers would be destroyed by a bill like this.

Traditional Pipe Tobacco (Captain Black, Half & Half, etc) is entirely different from the mislabeled "pipe tobacco" that is currently being used as RYO tobacco. The TTB is aware of this and has had 2 public comment periods on how to differentiate traditional pipe tobacco from "ryo type" pipe tobacco. They have received some excellent responses from leaders in the industry - based on things like moisture content, sugar content, flavorings, etc. (http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;D=TTB-2010-0004)

It is my understanding that because the TTB is looking at a reclassification rather than a new tax, they won't need Congressional approval. They simply set a standard for what qualifies as "pipe tobacco", and the rest falls under Roll Your Own and will be taxed as such since those tax rates already exist. This would close a major loophole without getting Congress involved at all.

One thing that continues to boggle my mind is why they haven't done it already...

I agree 100%
It is we cig smokers they want I think they are stuck on the wording of the reclassification from what I have seen they are working on that now.
Your freedom of choice has over the years been evaporating - in my book the gov has over spent it's self to a point of desperation to create dollars to pay the bills (but keeps spending). They see the cig smoker as a cash cow to be milked. The loop hole will be closed, the guy with a real cig addiction will feed it and look for an alternative to do it, big tobacco will continue to lose ground in the US-of-A, and the Gov will continue to spend and waist money doing things other than.... what they were meant to do.