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Spinosad, BT, Imidacloprid, Neem Oil

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greenmonster714

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Okay, so I've been reading a lot of older posts and thought maybe I'd get some clarity here. I would like to know what it is you guys are using for the upcoming 2017 grow. I ask about these items because I am sure at one point I will walk into my tobacco patch and see those damn hornworms chewing away at my product. To avoid that I'd like to know what you guys swear by to ward off these destructive creatures.

BT: I've read threads about BT and I couldn't seem to find what BT stands for. So, Google to the rescue. Is this stuff more effective than solutions mentioned below?
Monterey_Bt.jpg

Spinosad: I have read some into the Spinosad solution. That appears to be a relatively safe insecticide to use. How many of you guys are using this stuff. If so how are you using it and how often? How many plants would lets say a gallon mixture treats? Is the picture below something you guys use? I see it is available at WallyWorld for about 15 bucks.
cptn_jack_brew.gif

Imidacloprid: This stuff is expensive. Way more than a bottle of dawn dishliquid...lol. I saw a thread where a guy was using this to treat for amphids I believe. Obvious benefits are its ability to last a long time. Is this what you guys use sometime?
qp-imidacloprid75wsb-4x1ozbag-560x864-t.jpg

Neem Oil: In my past experiences with amphids this worked well but like ya'll said. The smell. I dunno if I'd wanna put this on a product I plan on smoking or chewing. Natural yes but damn that smell...lol
0aeb4439-4da2-4926-9645-1b48959dca50_400.jpg
 

deluxestogie

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My recent comments on imidacloprid for controlling aphids: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads...itrus-amp-Vegetable-Insect-Control-for-APHIDS

Unless you have a huge number of plants, you can inspect them daily for hornworm eggs and tiny hornworm babies, never having to see a full-size hornworm. BT is a suspension of Bacillus thuringiensis, which specifically kills larval insects (caterpillars/hornworms). I've never used it.

Bob
 

Jitterbugdude

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I was a long time user of BT until I found Spinosad. Now I use it exclusively. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other(for hornworms)but I like the fact that Spinosad lasts longer before being degraded by UV light. The other advantage Spinosad has over BT is that it will basically kill any bug that chews upon a treated leaf. BT is more specific to just worms. I've used Neem a few times (twice actually). I did not notice any smell or odd taste in my finished tobacco. Neem kills a lot of bugs, good ones as well as bad. Never used Imidaclorprid. I use a soapy water spray to kill aphids. Works very well but you have to start spraying at the very first sign of aphids.

Don't forget... get yourself some sluggo!!
 

Smokin Harley

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BT is bacillus thurengiensis, it is as Bob stated a suspension. It must be consumed by the insect targeted. Up to recently it was deemed safe on food type plants up to a certain pre-harvest time frame. I just hand pick if I see hornworms. I don't normally spray anything on my crops . Only last year when only a few of my tobacco was infested with aphids (some varieties had none) did I spray anything and the stuff I used which was said to be safe /organic ,ended up burning the leaves on contact as if it was acid. I bought some imidacloprid for a pre-plant root soak for next time.
 

LeftyRighty

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I use 'acephate' exclusively, kills all eating, sucking insects, and I never have had any bug problems. Acephate is systemic, absorbed into the leaf. I spray every 10-14 days, and since it's systemic, I don't worry about rain washing it away.

Yes, acephate is not organic, and no longer considered safe for food crops. It does have a 14 +/- day half-life, eventually degrading to non-harmful compounds. Since I air-cure and over-winter (leave the tobacco hanging in the shed until the following spring/summer), the acephate will have degraded to relatively 'safe' levels.

The first few seasons that I grew tobacco, I used Spinosad, BT and others, and was not happy with the results. If I didn't get full coverage on the leaf, I got too many holes in the leaf. If it was a really wet spring, or a week-long or more of rainy weather, it was a waste to try to apply BT. Then, I'd have to go to the 'hunt & pick' method of attacking hornworms. Also, later in warm summer, BT did not seem very effective against grasshoppers.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I use BT on cabbage and anything related because it does really well against cabbage moth. I have no need to put it on tobacco because as far as I know, we don't have horn worms. One up side is that a tiny 100mL bottle lasts for years as long as it doesn't freeze. Downside is that I always forget it in the garage. It's a living suspension, like yeast, and it stops working if it dies.
 

greenmonster714

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Don't forget... get yourself some sluggo!!

Certainly not. I wrestled with those last year in my tomatoes. Slimy little bastards they are. One question about the pellets. I have read where folks complain about the granules getting moldy and somehow harming their plants. Now I'm not totally convinced that is the issue. I think maybe folks get infested with the slugs and them treat the plant which is already damaged. Maybe the mold from the pellets can effect the plant at that point..I dunno?? What ya think about that? Has your tobacco plants ever been harmed by these pellets?

BT is bacillus thurengiensis, it is as Bob stated a suspension. It must be consumed by the insect targeted. Up to recently it was deemed safe on food type plants up to a certain pre-harvest time frame. I just hand pick if I see hornworms. I don't normally spray anything on my crops . Only last year when only a few of my tobacco was infested with aphids (some varieties had none) did I spray anything and the stuff I used which was said to be safe /organic ,ended up burning the leaves on contact as if it was acid. I bought some imidacloprid for a pre-plant root soak for next time.

You mentioned..."the stuff I used". What did you use that burnt the plant leaf? The BT or some other substance?

I use 'acephate' exclusively, kills all eating, sucking insects, and I never have had any bug problems. Acephate is systemic, absorbed into the leaf. I spray every 10-14 days, and since it's systemic, I don't worry about rain washing it away.

Yes, acephate is not organic, and no longer considered safe for food crops. It does have a 14 +/- day half-life, eventually degrading to non-harmful compounds. Since I air-cure and over-winter (leave the tobacco hanging in the shed until the following spring/summer), the acephate will have degraded to relatively 'safe' levels.

The first few seasons that I grew tobacco, I used Spinosad, BT and others, and was not happy with the results. If I didn't get full coverage on the leaf, I got too many holes in the leaf. If it was a really wet spring, or a week-long or more of rainy weather, it was a waste to try to apply BT. Then, I'd have to go to the 'hunt & pick' method of attacking hornworms. Also, later in warm summer, BT did not seem very effective against grasshoppers.

I just dunno about this. I did some reading at the National Pesticide Info Ctr link below. From what I've read it is no longer allowed to be used around homes any more. I see that this product is not sprayed on the plant but sprayed into the soil where it is absorbed into the plant. Is that the way you are using it? Also, do you wear some sort of protective clothing to spray this? The article says this about over exposure to the chemical.."People exposed to acephate have had nausea, diarrhea, abdominal cramps, shaking, sweating, rapid heart rate, dizziness, and/or confusion. Symptoms usually begin within minutes or hours after exposure". I understand what your saying about the fact that it does breakdown into a substance that is supposed to be okay for consumption but I wonder about application. Thanks for the info.
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/acephagen.html


I use BT on cabbage and anything related because it does really well against cabbage moth. I have no need to put it on tobacco because as far as I know, we don't have horn worms. One up side is that a tiny 100mL bottle lasts for years as long as it doesn't freeze. Downside is that I always forget it in the garage. It's a living suspension, like yeast, and it stops working if it dies.

I never knew that about the Neem Oil. I thought it had a pretty long shelf life. Good to know. Lucky you, no horn worms. Those things were a struggle last year in my tomatoes. I used 7dust to control them but hate using it because it will kill bees. After picking them off and getting nowhere I resorted to the dust. After learning about the spinosad and BT I will use that this year.
 
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deluxestogie

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...granules getting moldy and somehow harming their plants. Has your tobacco plants ever been harmed by these pellets?
...acephate...
Sluggo is iron phosphate in bran pellets. If they sit on wet ground, without exposure to direct sun, then the bran will mold after a few days. Even if that should happen, I don't see how that would impact the plants. I've used it for years, and never seen a problem with that.

Acephate is an organophosphate neurotoxin (in the same chemical family as nerve gas). All sorts of organophosphates have been and continue to be "safely" used in agriculture. There is some clinical association with Parkinson's Disease, though the multi-year interval between low-level, chronic exposure and onset of symptoms (not to mention their ubiquitous use in the past) make the link a bit fuzzy. Organophosphates work by binding to the enzyme that normally breaks down acetyl choline--a neurotransmitter. That is to say, the toxin messes up one of the essential functions of the nervous system. Although Acephate is called an "insecticide," it is actually toxic to anything with a nervous system. So it pays to be careful with it.

Using an ample time between application of acephate and harvest, the risk of exposure from consuming the plant is probably not significant for you (though the bees may argue about its safety). Careful spraying on a windless day presents only a minimal risk in the absence of protective gear. Spilling it on your skin, drinking it (toddlers do that sort of thing) or other heavy exposure is likely to cause the immediate, dangerous neurotoxic symptoms.

Bob
 

greenmonster714

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Well that's good to know about the Sluggo. I read a few reviews on the product and a few complained about the mold forming but if you and other folks have not had any problems I can go with that.
 

deluxestogie

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I might mention something else about Sluggo. The slugs have to eat it. If the soil is bone dry, the snails may avoid traveling to that inviting bran aroma. I usually apply it to the snail bed (that would be my one tobacco bed that runs along the edge of my brick house foundation) about a week prior to putting out the transplants, ideally after a rainy day that will be followed by a starry night. The house foundation seems to be perfect for snails to hide. Large stones, debris, wood-chip mulch, whole-leaf mulch and other moisture hugging materials that offer smooth undersurfaces promote snails.

Bob
 

greenmonster714

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Excellent point Bob. Bait'em where they lurk. Other than the places you mentioned. Where do you put the slug dope for plants away from the obvious slug hangouts? I've never used the stuff. Last year I had more problems with the horn worms than any other bug. When I live up in Ohio they were awful but down here in Alabama I've not seen to many. Once again, thanks for the input Bob.
 

deluxestogie

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If I do see signs of slugs in any other bed, I just sprinkle some Sluggo in that bed. No secret formula or technique.

I often cover my new transplants with a floating row cover. If the weather then stays wet, slugs begin to party beneath the row cover. I sprinkle some Sluggo beneath the cover.

Bob
 

Jitterbugdude

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. Other than the places you mentioned. Where do you put the slug dope for plants away from the obvious slug hangouts? .

I usually walk through my garden and just scatter sluggo everywhere. Two years ago I bought 5 lbs in bulk form and spread most of it over about a 1 acre area. Last year I didn't see a single slug until mid July! My theory is if you see 1 slug there are probably 20 that you do not see. Just treating your garden will kill the slugs in your garden but the very next day more slugs move in from outside the kill zone.
 

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As to imidacloprid, last year I grew some tobacco I started and some that bigbonner started. My stuff had biblical levels of aphid infestation due to no crop rotation, bigb's transplants were untouched until it wore off. It's basically voodoo for aphids.
 

greenmonster714

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So, I plan on using this Spinosad along with the Slugo. The Slugo is pretty easy to find but I dunno about the Spinosad. If you use Spinosad could ya let me know where you get it? I've seen a few online but wanted to know if there's any better deals out there.
 
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