Whole Leaf Tobacco

Tech 1 gears; Lucas Polish Shredders

Bex

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#1
My beloved Teck 1 has bit the dust, sadly. The worm gear (that I had replaced and made by a local machine shop for a disgusting amount of money) no longer rides in the crown gear (which sits on the wooden wheel). I saw Brent's youtube vid on his Teck 1 machine. It appears that the teeth in the crown gear, (on his machine that is obviously in much better condition than mine) are much more pronounced and deeper - mine are horribly worn with barely any depth to them, and the guy who made the worm gear for fitting into the crown gear, used the worn teeth for his measurements. The wooden gear has been adjusted, over the course of time, I imagine, closer to the worm, and there is no more adjustment left. It appears that if I want to save my Teck 1, I will have to have a new crown gear and another new worm gear made. I was wondering if anyone here who has a Teck 1 would be able to measure the depth of those teeth in the crown gear, so I can have some idea as to what their measurement should be. And perhaps any suggestions (other than having this machine shop do everything all over again) as to how this can be made. Thanks!!
 

Jitterbugdude

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#2
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

Bex, I can measure mine tomorrow night and get back to you on Tuesday. Depending on the cost you might want to get a manual Polish shredder. You can hook a drill to it and it kicks ass! The cost is approx $190.00 to the U.S., I imagine it'll be similar to Ireland. It'll be the last shredder you ever buy.

Link to mine is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs3Jg5_APHk

This particular one is a 1.6 mm shred that I had special made. All of the others he sells are .8mm
 

Bex

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#3
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

Thanks, Jitter - I keep reading about these shredders that use the combs, etc., and it seems that this can be somewhat problematic, no? People on the internet write about having to stop to scrape them out, etc. Other than your vid, do you have a link to the actual machine? And thanks for the measurement for the Teck 1....I have a soft spot for that thing....:)
 

Jitterbugdude

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#4
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

I have a .8mm motor driven machine and a 1.6 mm manual machine (that I attach a drill to sometimes). I've never had a jam with the 1.6mm but I've had several with the .8mm. I think it's just the laws of Physics. .8mm is a really small shred. If I take my time and feed the big machine (.8mm) at a steady pace, it never jams. Only when I start dumping leaf in like crazy does it jam.

Here is a link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331667768268?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I'll measure my Teck-1 this evening.
 

Bex

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#5
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

Thanks for the info. Looking at the ebay link now....I'll probably end up buying this....:)

Edit: Just did....about $215 to my door. Thanks Jitter - still would like to get the Teck 1 measurements....although it's not as urgent now, I'd still like to get the Teck 1 back to working shape. Thanks for your help (and recommendation!!)
 

Bex

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#6
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

And it's already been dispatched. Talk about fast. I see on his ebay ad that he advises the leaf can be done 'wet or dry' and with stems, etc. So, the $64,000 question - have you ever cut your midribs with this? I know, I'm lazy. Just curious....;)
 

Jitterbugdude

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#7
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

I did do a few midribs but they are still pretty bulky ( more like .. hard) so now I strip them out. Post your results when you get it and run some leaf through it.
 

Bex

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#8
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

This Lucas is a hoot - he is already trying to sell me a shredder with, as he says an 'engine' on it!! He's told me about putting some food oil in the cutters before use - do you do that? Anyway, I'm looking forward to this - I'll have to charge up my drill.....I'm about to go automated...:)
 

Jitterbugdude

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#9
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

Bex, Here is what I have: Worm gear = 3/32", Wooden gear = 4/32" and the end gear that is on the end of the wooden roller (that meshes with the worm gear) = 3/32".
I had a hard time measuring this. My digital calipers were too wide so I used my old "manual" Starrett Calipers.

It would be nice to know what your measurements are too... You know, the old.. I'll show you mine if you show me yours routine..:)

I have not tried oil on my cutters but I have tried some Glycerine. Can't say it makes a difference. I think you'll have to play around with yours when you get it.
 

Bex

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#10
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

Thanks for the info!! I have to go down to the farmer's house who currently is attempting to fix the Teck 1, and see what the measurements currently are. I would say that in no way is the crown gear (the gear that attaches on to the wooden roller) anywhere near 3/32". In looking at the crown gear in Amax's video on you tube, I'd say my gear is about half the depth that it should be. The wooden roller is now positioned as far toward the worm gear as it can go, and still not making contact enough for it to turn.
However....Lucas has advised that my new shredder was posted yesterday, so I imagine that I should be receiving it within the next week. I'm pretty excited about this. Funnily enough, I do have a bottle of glycerine - ah, it has always been my, um, 'lube' of choice, since I was a student years ago. It will be interesting to give it another use, as, sadly, I don't have much need for its original one. A very sad commentary....:(
 

rustycase

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#11
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

I guess a purchase has resolved this problem and the point is probably moot, yet has anyone considered using a gearset from some other device?
Not a clue hat might work, because I haven't researched it, but there must be something similar that the parts are available for... just this morning I was reading about a makita saw with a hypoid gear drive and angle grinders with gear drive mechanisms in the angled head.
Of course that leads me further... perhaps you could buy a HF cheapo tool just to rob the gearset from it???
Might be worth an adult beverage and a stogie in the rocker time spent.
YMMV
rc
 

Bex

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#12
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

It would be nice to know what your measurements are too... You know, the old.. I'll show you mine if you show me yours routine..:)
.
I see what you mean about this being difficult to measure. I have to bring my calipers down to my neighbor's and will try to measure it again today.....

Rusty, at least in my investigation, the set up for the Teck 1 is a bit strange - having 'researched' the crown and worm gear set up on the internet, it appears (trivia coming now) that this set up was used in the rear axle of the Model TT (which I had never heard of). It was determined that moving a crown gear with a worm is not really 'efficient' or the best way to do this. The set up of the direction in which the tobacco is rolling, the position of the blades, and the rod that the blade wheel sits on seems to make using gearing that is perpendicular to each other impossible. I can't think of any other way to get that crown gear to move the tobacco forward, while rotating the blades. Maybe someone else here can think up a way, but I certainly can't. Of course, it is always possible to move the tobacco forward by hand (which is what I ended up doing during my last shred), so all is not terribly lost....:)
 

Jitterbugdude

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#13
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

If you don't mind butchering your Teck-1 you could do the following: take the worm gear and shaft off. Make a metal endplate for the crown gear that has a shaft attached to it. Attach the shaft to a drill motor.. Turn on the motor, it will rotate the wooden roller. This would allow your free hands to turn the blades. Not perfect, but at least you wouldn't have to throw the Teck-1 away.
 

Bex

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#14
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

I was finally able to get my Teck 1 measurements...And they certainly confirm the problem that I've been having. My worm gear thread has a depth of 1/32 inches, the wooden wheel is 2/32, and the crown gear is 2/32. I was also wondering about the diameter of the worm gear - the flat area at the base of mine is 9/16, and the threaded area (from top of the threads) is 11/16. Strangely, the rod that the worm gear rides on - and the center hole of the worm gear itself, ended up measuring exactly 1 centimeter in diameter. I am thinking that, using my original - and faulty - worm gear as a template was not a good idea. What my 'mechanic' (actually my neighbor) is thinking about doing - considering that making a new crown gear would be truly a PIA - is to make a new worm gear with a larger diameter/body, so that it fits closer to the crown. He also feels that the thread of my new worm gear was not correctly done, as it doesn't mesh properly with the crown gear at all.
Jitterbug, I do understand your suggestion about adding a shaft to the crown gear and turning that independently of the cutting wheel, with a drill or similar, but I would also imagine that you would need to coincide the speed of the crown gear (or wooden wheel) with the speed of the blades. I can see me having some coordination issues with this!! I'm hoping to get my new shredder in the next few days, which will at least allow us the time to 'study' the Teck 1 better and take our time at its repair. I would like to try to keep it as close to original as possible.

So, one more favor - what is the overall diameter of your worm gear - both at the base of it (where the screw is) as well as across the top where the threads are? Aside from the fact that my crown gear teeth are half as long as they should be, there is still quite a distance between my crown gear and the worm gear when I have this set up. I need to position the wooden wheel as far as it can go, toward my side of the shredder, if you know what I mean. I'm wondering if my worm gear was originally larger in overall diameter....????

Thanks again for your help!!
 

Jitterbugdude

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#15
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

Bex, Shaft= 10mm, The collar of the worm gear= 16mm and the outer diameter of the worm gear= 18.6 to 18.9 mm. Took the reading a dozen times. Its tough to get a caliper on it.
 

Matty

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#16
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

Using the same measuring techniques as above, I come up with:
0.784" OD on the worm gear
0.680" diameter in the valleys of the worm gear
0.080" distance between peaks
0.096" depth of 1 tooth valley on the crown gear
To properly cut a gear these dimensions are almost useless as it is a much more elaborate measuring process, measuring "over wire" and such. Also, the angle of the gear teeth is very important, the teeth on a tech1 look much more acute than standard gear teeth. It's been over 10 years since I've measured and cut a gear and I do not own some of the measuring tools needed to duplicate a gear.
Before I bought my tech1 I imagined building one on my own and to get around the whole gear making issue I though I might be able to use a section of threaded rod for the worm. If I had gone that route I would have turned a piece of the threaded rod into a sort of cutter to cut the teeth in the crown gear. A lot of imagination and a little math, I suppose it could be done.
As I see it, you might just as well be better off shredding with the shredder head you've ordered. I use my tech1 for all my shredding, about 8lbs per year and even at that I'm very concerned with wear.
Too bad about the glycerine, if I had no use for it anymore I might not have the will to stay among the living. Silicone based is the way to go, just don't put it on any tobacco! Lol :p
 

Bex

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#17
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

God, all this math is doing my head in. Thank goodness for the internet, where I can just plug the numbers in to convert. I guess it's easier to do this in mm (although I'm totally unfamiliar with them).....But it does appear that my crown gear and worm are quite worn, and also that the remanufactured worm that I had done is quite a bit off base. For example, the collar of Jitterbug's worm is 16mm, whereas mine is 14.28mm. The diameter of the threaded part of Jitterbug's is 18.6 (or so), mine is 17.46 and Matty's is 19.914.
However, I do like Matty's idea - in order to do this (easily) rather than attempt to make a worm gear to fit and move the crown gear as it is - which would take a lot of math and stress for my poor farmer neighbor, but to cut a new crown gear, in the way that you describe, making a cutter to cut the teeth, etc. A good idea!
While I know that I will probably use my new shredder instead of the Teck 1, it saddens me that my Teck 1 has been around for 100 years, and it only took me one year to ruin it.
Thank you both for your info....I'm now armed with at least an idea of where to begin with my 'restoration'....:)
 

Jitterbugdude

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#18
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

Bex, another possibility for the different measurements is that these were all hand crafted. Maybe the manufacturer was just happy to be within a range of tolerances. Or maybe one machinist was more meticulous about his work. It's odd that the collar would come up so differently. Maybe the tolerances (if they had any back then) were very broad, after all yours was still working perfectly 100 years after it was made.... 100 years ago they did not have the QC program in place now known as "Bex Proofing"... :p
 

Bex

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#19
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

Handcrafted? That makes be feel doubly bad - some guy laboriously crafting the Teck 1 that I have, his effort lasting for 100+ years, and then its demise at my hands....I need to handcraft some labels: 'Broken By Bex'. Or else perhaps my Teck 1 was made by a trainee, and never really expected to last this long......
I went on to the internet yesterday to try to read up on making gears - certainly this is well beyond the capacity of my pinhead. Worse comes to worse, I can always move the tobacco through the blades by hand, if I need to use the Teck 1 again, which is how I had to finish off my last shred. I'll leave the creativity to this farmer who has the Teck 1 now, to see what he can come up with. I gave him the measurements posted here - he is a pretty amazing guy, fabricating all sorts of stuff for himself, so hopefully he will come up with some miracle. In the meantime, my new shredder is on it's way here, literally by snail mail - I think its on the back of a turtle, just outside of Dublin, and should be here within the next month. I am so impatient!
Thank you (both of you) for your information, measuring and guidance in my latest tobacco debacle.....
 

Bex

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#20
Re: Teck 1 gear measurements

Well, I got my new shredder in the post today. Naturally, I have a few questions about it....the first one being how the 'heck' (please inject a stronger word there) do you turn the crank? Lucas advised that I should put some food oil (I'm using my glycerin) on the rollers, as well. Even so, I imagine that you need to have the shredder screwed into a table or similar to keep it in one place? Is there some trick to this? Without mounting it on an immovable surface, I can't see how you can turn the crank and feed leaf in through it, as my other hand is trying to keep the shredder in one place. It looks like it's REALLY well built, and I'm looking forward to using it. I'm just wondering if I need to secure this on to some surface, as well as join the gym to build up my muscles first....??? :)

I've also found that the handle for this is too long to clear the surface, so that the shredder either must be mounting up on something, or sitting at the end of the table....is this correct as well????
 
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